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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:21 AM
Monroe Lee King Jr.
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Texas
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Team Prometheus

Our team is building a UAV with FPV/OSD to fly from here: (Picture) @100,000ft (above U.S. airspace) This vehicle will also launch a small rocket to and even higher altitude. We need some very specific help and I was wondering if you guy's would mind directing us?
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:25 AM
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merlin703's Avatar
Alexandria, Virginia
Joined Mar 2008
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What do you have so far? Do you have any experience building or putting together an FPV platform? What kind of system are you planning on using? What type of video tx/rx and radio tx/rx? What size will your ship be? How are you going to power your ship?
Do you have any pictures of what you have?

There are many experienced pilots here but you are going to have to give them more to get their interest. I will keep an eye on this thread.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:27 AM
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:29 AM
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Canada,Quebec
Joined Jan 2005
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Man.. nice project.

You'll need a UHF long range system, look for the most powerfull "Scherrer LRS" with added booster it produce 7W, so that will make it for the radio control.

The video downlink will be the challenge, most powerfull yet light tx are in the 1W range, so maximise the work in the reception, tracker (manual or auto) and a grid antenna probably. But, if you aim that high you probably know alot already.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:50 AM
Monroe Lee King Jr.
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Texas
Joined Sep 2010
34 Posts
We have real pilots on our team I have flown before myself. I also have a Old School Hobie Hawk if anyone remembers them. I have a Ardupilot and oil pan but I'm not married to it. Our UAV is a Quadcopter with 4' rotors designed after the Helios propellers. The propeller's are being developed right now with the prototypes made of wood and foam. They will be composite when the design is finalized. Our website is under construction again but out last flight to 106,640ft is there and our first flight is there along with a news interview from our local News 8 Austin. There is a good bit of information on our team on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-P...s/213171526223
I'll update the website after our next launch in October. I will update this thread with photos when I can figure out how to upload them. LOL I'm not familiar with how this site takes photo uploads.
The website is www.teamprometheus.org I have decided to make the hobby gear work for us because it's price and our goals.
I have looked at the highpower for UAV operation on another thread on this site to extend our 2.4Ghz radio gear and I'm looking at a 2 watt 900Mhz stereo transmitter for the Video feed. I have a 3 meter dish to motorize and I can build yagi's or Helies if we decide that route is better.
We have 2-meter tracking gear as back-up for telemetry and location for both payloads one is custom and the other is a Big Red Bee 2-Meter for the rocket. There are other details of course. This is a international site I believe and I don't want to break any ITAR regulations.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 12:34 PM
Monroe Lee King Jr.
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Texas
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The "Scherrer LRS" is the system I believe we need yes.

The major problem I see right now is it looks like the best antenna for the UAV is a wheelie as they are called. That would be for the UAV 900 Mhz downlink for the video. I think that's fine for our use.

We need to figure out the best antenna to use for the "Scherrer LRS" on the UAV and what antenna on the ground.

Our launch site on Matagorda Peninsula has a 150ft tower besides the 60ft Launch tower for rocket testing. We can put whatever we want up there too. We have the 3 meter dish but I dont know if the current (hobby) Ground station antenna tracking is good enough to point that accurately.

Operating this ground station is more like a spacecraft operation and I want to use hobby gear to do it. Our "Mission Control Station" If you will.

It's going to take the best of the best to pull this off so I know you guy's are up to the task. Anybody game?
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 06:15 PM
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Alexandria, Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Prometheus View Post
The "Scherrer LRS" is the system I believe we need yes.

The major problem I see right now is it looks like the best antenna for the UAV is a wheelie as they are called. That would be for the UAV 900 Mhz downlink for the video. I think that's fine for our use.

We need to figure out the best antenna to use for the "Scherrer LRS" on the UAV and what antenna on the ground.

Our launch site on Matagorda Peninsula has a 150ft tower besides the 60ft Launch tower for rocket testing. We can put whatever we want up there too. We have the 3 meter dish but I dont know if the current (hobby) Ground station antenna tracking is good enough to point that accurately.

Operating this ground station is more like a spacecraft operation and I want to use hobby gear to do it. Our "Mission Control Station" If you will.

It's going to take the best of the best to pull this off so I know you guy's are up to the task. Anybody game?

There are other long distance system out there. The Dragon Link is also a popular system. You can talk to Mike over the phone to get some anwers.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1026959
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 04:49 AM
Monroe Lee King Jr.
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Texas
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The Dragon seems like a nice system! I think we need the "Scherrer LRS" for this project still the 7 watts sounds about right for our 21 mile range. The slant distance is longer still. We have tested a small satellite with lower power and it punched threw on 433Mhz
The price is good! So we could run a test of the two anyway and see what the difference is in real life. It might be a good comparison test.
We can separate our transmitters a bit farther than most model applications and the antennas too can have some separation. We really need what will work.
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 06:07 AM
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United Kingdom, England, Milton Keynes
Joined Sep 2003
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I am not clear about what you want to do...

Are you saying you want a UAV plane to go as high as possible (what height are you expecting ?) and then, at that hight launch stage 2 which would be a rocket ?
I am sure you want to control the UAV, do you want to control the rocket too ?
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 06:28 AM
http://drone-pilot.blogspot.fr
lovegroove's Avatar
Rhone Alps, France
Joined Aug 2008
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You should just get in touch with Thomas Scherrer directly and ask him for some help. I know that he has worked with other high altitude rocket teams in the past. Only a few weeks ago he was involved in a rocket launch.

Just contact him through here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=156373

or his website:

http://webx.dk/index.htm
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 09:51 AM
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alexedit's Avatar
United States, NV, Rachel
Joined Dec 2008
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For a long range system you might also look into your other option, DragonLink. Just compare the two and go with the one that you think fits your needs best.
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 10:11 AM
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Dragon Link is compatible with 7 W booster as well. From DL thread. And another one
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Last edited by tty044; Oct 01, 2010 at 10:23 AM.
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 12:44 PM
Monroe Lee King Jr.
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Texas
Joined Sep 2010
34 Posts
rcmonster99
That's about the just of it rcmonster. We have been carrying payloads to high altitude for some time now. The problem for launching rockets was the instability if the balloon and the effects of torque on the positioning of the launch. (the Quad will be carried up the by balloon) The rocket is launched at an angle that puts it in an orbital trajectory the only control on the rocket is the third stage firing and that occurs at another specific angle determined by a small telescope looking out of the rocket (it is IR and can detect the horizon). Firing the third stage at that point sets the trajectory. This rocket is spin stabilized. The final stage has it's nozzle under the nosecone facing FORWARD because of the spin stabilization when the rocket reaches the other side of the world @54min it will then be facing the right direction again. Firing that stage will circularize the orbit keeping the rocket from re-entering the atmosphere where it left it.
Anyway the Quadcopter design makes a stable enough platform to actually do that and hit a fairly close orbital path. That makes the folks at the FAA, DOD feel good.

Glad you asked! Needless to say it's a fairly complex project. I work on this project full time everyday for the last 2 1/2 years. I've had a lot of help this far and now I'm asking you guy's to pitch in what you know to help us do this thing.

Your experience is extremely valuable and we need your help now if we really are going to do this. I'm not stopping as you can see and I'm totally serious not joking.

Monroe
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Alexandria, Virginia
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Prometheus View Post
The Dragon seems like a nice system! I think we need the "Scherrer LRS" for this project still the 7 watts sounds about right for our 21 mile range. The slant distance is longer still. We have tested a small satellite with lower power and it punched threw on 433Mhz
The price is good! So we could run a test of the two anyway and see what the difference is in real life. It might be a good comparison test.
We can separate our transmitters a bit farther than most model applications and the antennas too can have some separation. We really need what will work.
If you are going to compare both system side by side... people here are goign to LOVE YOU!
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 01:12 PM
Monroe Lee King Jr.
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Texas
Joined Sep 2010
34 Posts
I may have to compare all this equipment piece by piece if I can not get hard evidence of what works better. Our application makes it ez for line of site comparisons but not overland. We could set up to do something like that. If vendors are willing to put their products up for testing it would help. I don't know yet but we will see how it goes.
We need the best we can get and this route is diffinatly the least expensive way for us to go. The alternatives would be staggering. I'm not totally happy with what's available and there is some opportunity for development as well if the right people get together.
Either way I've decided we are coming your way.

Monroe
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