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Old Sep 18, 2010, 05:25 PM
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United States, FL, Melbourne
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Question
450 Clone Shaft Drive Heli For MD500 Scale??

In the process of finishing up my 450 size Darth Blue Thunder and thinking of my next build. Yep scale heli's do seem to multiply like water on Gremlins around here, lol. I already have a Heliartist MD500 (V1) 450 built with an EXI V2 clone and have had another Align Military version built the same way though long gone and lost due to fuselage resonance

I was looking to do another Heliartist or Align MD500 fuselage in 450 size. Has anyone done one of these with the new Pro shaft drive clones? If so any pluses or minuses?

My thinking would be maybe a little bit easier on the tail assembly with the fuselage and not messing with a belt anymore?? That in itself would be a positive in my book

Thanks,
David.
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Old Sep 18, 2010, 11:10 PM
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hello
Don't have any shaft driven tails so can't speak from experience, but looking at it logically, with that particular fuselage (MD500), I could envisage less fiddling than with a belt driven tail. Unless my thinking is flawed.

regards
mono
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 10:52 PM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
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Monroe, WA
Joined Jan 2007
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I recently had another incident with the belt breaking in my Hughes 500!

I'm getting rid of the belt and upgrading all of my 450 scales to Torque Tube drive.
I've already done my AS-350, Agusta, Hughes 500, and will also upgrade my Jet Ranger soon.

If you have a 450 SE or V2 style of frame, them you can purchase the V3 Torque Tube Conversion Kit or parts.

I highly recommend using the 450 Pro frame for the AS-350 and Hughes 500 fuselage. Using the Pro frame will solve the problem of the elevator servo touching the fuselage, that causes fit and vibration problems.
The Pro frame also solves the problem of fitting the rudder servo into the fuselage.

I do not recommend the HK450 Pro, due to poor quality metal parts and holes not drilled correctly.
I do however highly recommend the Tarot 450 Pro, as clone alternatives.

Here's my newest 450 Pro heli:

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Old Sep 20, 2010, 12:28 AM
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That's excellent info B.T. and much appreciated. Mine will have to stay belt drive for the time being, the thing is though, it's a gamble waiting until they break before thinking about changing over.
I have never understood why people say the HK450 (or any of the HK kits) are good value when for just a little extra you can get something like the Tarot or similar and not have to worry about bad manufacture or unreliable parts, maybe it's HK fever.
There is something quite sleek about dark coloured fuselages, that one looks very nice, and with 4 blade tail too.
I see you also have a dremel drill stand, very good tool for model work.

regards
mono
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 12:56 AM
Youtube skycop216
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Thanks Guys!

Hey Mono and BT,

Thanks for the responses. Still a bit out on my build but now really leaning towards the TT. I have had 2 belts break on the yellow 500 above both times on the ground during spool up so I was lucky there but to have to go through all the adjusting, taking the tail apart, putting back together, etc. etc. is a real pain the butt to say the least. I now run align belts only on my helis and they do seem to be better and longer lasting then the one's that came with the EXI kits at least in my experience and the Florida heat, lol.

My green MD500 was initially lost due to a thermal shut down on the esc. Xheli 40 amp volcano, (never again) with external BEC added. Yeah windows and Florida summer did not work out well. I was able to semi auto it with minimal damage. Rebuilt it got everything checked out or so I thought. Went for a test hover and the thing basically exploded in mid-air at about 5 feet from resonance. My NTSB investigation figured out on the first semi auto/crash the wood mounting base must have been loose at a glue joint and it separated in flight causing the catastrophic failure. Live and learn but boy did it sound like a shotgun going off, lol.

BT your killing me over hear with that Little bird as that is exactly what I was looking to do next, sans the multi blade head and tail, though I want a multi head set up bad I don't think my set up skills are there just yet!

Also BT on a side note I wanted you to know that I have read most of your build reviews and advice you have done here and elsewhere and I just wanted to really take a minute and personally thank you for your time, effort, and infomation!!! If it weren’t for you and several others who have done this as well, people like me when starting out would be totally lost and or totally given up on scale by now. So again, thank you.

David.
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 06:27 AM
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Good to read that some have taken the plunge with the TT drives in these fuzes have been thinking of it for a while after not being able to track down the culprit of an almighty resonance issue with a trex 450 V2 in my MD 500.

After taking the plunge on a T Rex 500 ESP my eyes were opened to the benefits of TT drive as said seems would be much easier to set up and get in and out plus it runs smoother than the belts IMO.

Just got to wait for the CX Pro to arrive and get on with the install.

BT is that the HA 4 blade tail you have? if so what do you make of it, worth a button push?

Cheers

Dan
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyhough View Post
Good to read that some have taken the plunge with the TT drives in these fuzes have been thinking of it for a while after not being able to track down the culprit of an almighty resonance issue with a trex 450 V2 in my MD 500.
Give this a shot, blade holder on the frames to the fuselage. Took care of mine nicely

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Old Sep 24, 2010, 08:00 PM
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Doesn't look like there is much slack on the ball links from the swash to the blade grips... that's one heck of an angle.
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 09:12 PM
Redjestird Youser
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Yep, the pic sure looks 'angular', lol. Works pretty good so far, probably over 100 flights and hasnt blown up yet. It's a short main shaft combined with a CopterX flapping head to get a better MD500 scale-like rotor/fuse distance.
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 11:20 PM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
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@ jafo216 - You're welcome, glad we were all helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyhough View Post
BT is that the HA 4 blade tail you have? if so what do you make of it, worth a button push?
Yes, it is the HA tail.
Pros: It works very well on my Apache, left side of the tail.

Cons: It does have pitch limitations.
The pitch limitation does not affect belt drive systems, because you can change the rotation with the belt.

On a Torque Tube driven system, the pitch limitation does not allow the tail Rotor to be installed on the left.
There is not enough tail rotor pitch to counter the main rotor torque.


For installation of the quad tail rotor, on a Torque Tube drive, you will need to flip the tail rotor blade grips.

The rotor hub limits the amount of travel:


Tail right, Nose Left: Mechanical limitation of pitch


Tail Left, Nose Right:
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Old Sep 25, 2010, 09:03 AM
Redjestird Youser
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BT, I like that undercut in the grips, seems someone did their homework designing this tail. I was thinking it would be quite a chinese weight project to get acceptable needed-torque levels for the servo to work with, but after spooled up testing, I was pleasantly surprised that it wasnt that bad at all.
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Old Oct 06, 2010, 03:50 AM
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Sideways, Nice elegent fix there will give it a go. The issues i was having were tail orientated mainly hence the desicion to go for the TT drive Pro.

Still having issues fathoming the height for the mechanics with the 5 blade head to get the look right as wellas the boom position.

@BT thanks for the info on the tail, seems like it will have to be the standard tail for now at least, just be happy to get this thing in the air and flying smooth. Any chance of some interior mounting pics of the pro in the md500 fuze? Need to get the height right.


Regards

Dan
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Old Oct 06, 2010, 05:21 PM
CloggieCopter™
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTitanium View Post
@ jafo216 - You're welcome, glad we were all helpful!



Yes, it is the HA tail.
Pros: It works very well on my Apache, left side of the tail.

Cons: It does have pitch limitations.
The pitch limitation does not affect belt drive systems, because you can change the rotation with the belt.

On a Torque Tube driven system, the pitch limitation does not allow the tail Rotor to be installed on the left.
There is not enough tail rotor pitch to counter the main rotor torque.

The rotor hub limits the amount of travel:


Tail right, Nose Left: Mechanical limitation of pitch


Tail Left, Nose Right:
Hey BT,

I am not familiar with this tail rotor but wouldn't flipping the grips like you can on a two blade tail rotor give you more pitch? Just a suggestion but it might be worth trying as I know that flipping the grips on a two blade gives you different throws.

René
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Old Oct 06, 2010, 07:46 PM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
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Monroe, WA
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloggieUK View Post
Hey BT,

I am not familiar with this tail rotor but wouldn't flipping the grips like you can on a two blade tail rotor give you more pitch? Just a suggestion but it might be worth trying as I know that flipping the grips on a two blade gives you different throws.

René
OMG!!!
What's wrong with me lately, why didn't I think of that!

Dude, you nailed it. Flipped the grips, and now I have the max pitch that I need to counter the CCW torque rotation, with the tail rotor mounted on the left.

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Old Oct 07, 2010, 10:15 AM
CloggieCopter™
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTitanium View Post
OMG!!!
What's wrong with me lately, why didn't I think of that!

Dude, you nailed it. Flipped the grips, and now I have the max pitch that I need to counter the CCW torque rotation, with the tail rotor mounted on the left.

Hey BT,

Glad it worked out. Wasn't sure by looking at the picture whether it was possible to flip them as there is much less room.

Don't forget to reverse your gyro though...
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