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Old Dec 30, 2012, 11:48 AM
VOLTS > AMPS
stgdz's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jul 2011
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Expo is totally subjective, I prefer a

95-100% on elevator for my extra and mxs


can't recall what the others are but this allows me to maintain a more precise flight on high rates.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 11:49 AM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
Doc Austin's Avatar
USA, FL, Largo
Joined Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by bryansifsof44 View Post
Totally... It was not my intention to give bad advice for the new guys............
Oh, Dude, I am sorry if you thought I implied that.

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new guys, which should start on low rates and work up of that
I like the low rates from the manual. Those make the EXPs fly about as tame as a T28.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 11:50 AM
bryansifsof44's Avatar
United States, AK, Anchorage
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I use expo higher then the recommend but that is pretty high .
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 01:10 PM
Yin & Yang
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United States, VA, Sterling
Joined Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by Doc Austin View Post
New guys If you have triple rates that is the way to go. Set the low rate Then set the medium rate up using the high rate from the maual and restricting the elevator throw to 45 degrees. For the high rate, crank in all the elevator you can get. The reason I like a meduim rate with 45 degrees is because the plane harriers much easier like this, and easy is important when you are learning 3D or switching to a new airframe.
+1 Doc. I did just this because I like to get the middle rate set so full elevator is my Harrier setting. I also dialed in way more expo on my rudder for hovering. Full elevator didn't bother me but I didn't need 88deg of elevator for hover. Too much rudder in hover was giving me a fit.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 01:17 PM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
Doc Austin's Avatar
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Joined Dec 2005
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As far as I can see, the secret for these planes is to use the set up from the manual and the full 75% expo.

However, that's assuming you are flying Futaba. The expo curve is a lot different on Hi tec, and it seems like DX8 is fairly similar to Futaba, but I can't swear to that. I do like the way a DX8 feels, so I am guessing it's pretty close to what I am flying.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 01:22 PM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
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Originally Posted by Liberty10 View Post
+1 Doc. I did just this because I like to get the middle rate set so full elevator is my Harrier setting.
This is from my Edge EXP 3s report

http://docaustinextreme.blogspot.com...the-3s_23.html

Quote:
Flying With Extreme Elevator Travel
One feature exclusive in this size to the EXP series is the insane available elevator throw. I get about 88 degrees on mine, which, believe me, is enough. Where this comes in handy is for violent pitch rotations, and added elevator authority all the way around. This is simply an insane amount of control surface movement, and you don't need it unless you are going for absolutely extreme, outer limits 3D performance. For most sport 3D pilots, elevator movement of 50 degrees is more than enough.

In walls, parachutes, and extremely hard turns, the Edge remains composed because of it's straight LE. While running a more conventional 50 degrees of elevator movement, the Edge is slightly better in this respect than the other EXP series planes, but when you use the available 90 degrees of travel the Edge truly sets itself apart.

We are going to cheat a little here because I lost most of the photos of my original Edge in a hard drive crash. This is a photo of the elevator travel on my MXS, but the Edge gets every bit as much movement.....



90 degrees of elevator deflection is simply a ridiculous amount of throw. It gives you the kind of pitch authority to absolutely whip the tail over the nose in waterfalls, and nearly throw the tail under the airplane in wall maneuvers.

Parachutes are just plain disturbing because the airplane will rotate to completely horizontal with a satisfying pop, and the whole airframe jolts to a stop and becomes own parachute, floating down gently. You can do high intensity, high speed parachutes at ridiculously low altitudes, simply because after doing one of two of them, you have that kind of confidence in the airplane. You can go lower and lower knowing she will pop to flat with her wings level every time. At some point, though, that's low enough, though I have actually popped a parachute and rode it into a perfect 3 point landing with this plane.
While this kind of control throw will give you insane pitch authority for walls, parachutes and other hard pitch rotation moves, you do have to be more careful in a harrier with all that travel.

Extreme Elevator Travel ... The Downside
On any plane this additional movement will make things a bit trickier. On some it would make the airplane evil or even impossible to fly, but the EXP series are so stable you can get away with it. The only downside I have found is that harrier becomes just a little trickier.

In harrier you are on the ragged edge (so to speak) of a complete stall, flying off the partial lift from the airframe and thrust from the propeller. While the plane is flying around in a mush, with a full 90 degrees of elevator travel you can still rotate the plane hard enough to dump all of the remaining lift pretty quickly. What fools you when you get to critically slow speed is that the rudder and ailerons are nearly ineffective, but you still have enough elevator to pitch the nose past that critical angle of attack and stall the plane completely. It helps to lead with the throttle a little, and after you get the hang of it, you can almost anticipate when you need to apply a blip.

With the Extra and MXS, you have to be smooth at critically slow speeds, or all that throw can bring on the stall so quickly that it can surprise you. Also, in elevator maneuvers, if you use too much elevator movement the plane will yaw off a bit, and then you end up chasing it back and forth with the rudder.

Conversely, the Edge 540T, with the straight leading edge wing, has a stall that is straight, progressive and predictable, so it mushes it's way into it so straight and smoothly that you almost can't make it surprise you. For this reason, I think it is the best EXP airframe for hardcore unlimited 3D antics. You can go ridiculously deep into a stall and the airplane will never do anything evil. No mater how hard you push the Edge, it remains composed and sure footed.

While the Extra and MXS are much easier to harrier on a mid rate of 50 degrees elevator or so, the Edge 540T simply doesn't care nearly as much. I never take mine off high rates and the full 90 degrees of elevator movement. Even with this extreme elevator movement and flying at an extreme angle of attack, there is absolutely no wing rock. The Edge is completely solid all the way around. This doesn't mean you can't stall it or anything, but you won't have to fight it so hard in a harrier because the wings are going to stay level.

The extreme elevator movement does make all the EXPs a little twitchier in a harrier, but it is something you adapt to pretty quickly and learn to fly around. Something else you can do is use a triple rate.....low rate for precision, high rate for 3D (with 50 degrees of elevator) and insane rate (90 degrees elevator) for, uhhhh.....insane 3D.

However, I go back and forth from alpha to high speed and back again so rapidly and so often that I don't have time to be flipping switches, if I even remember, that is. As a result, I have just learned to leave my rates set on kill and live with it. It's not that bad with an EXP because they are so smooth, stable and predictable, even on the highest rate I can put into them. I do all my precision and 3D on one rate, simply because the plane is good enough to let me do it that way.

With this in mind, it makes sense to have an insane rate, and a harrier rate to go along with a low precision rate. Personally I just need to upfrade my transmitter to one with triple rates, though I don't know if I want to stay with Futaba and my 12 receivers, or start over with a DX8.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Burke, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin View Post
As far as I can see, the secret for these planes is to use the set up from the manual and the full 75% expo.

However, that's assuming you are flying Futaba. The expo curve is a lot different on Hi tec, and it seems like DX8 is fairly similar to Futaba, but I can't swear to that. I do like the way a DX8 feels, so I am guessing it's pretty close to what I am flying.
Actually they redid the expo curve on Hitec's a couple of years ago and it's more in line with a Futaba. They initially had a wacky expo curve that was hard to get used to but it's much better since they changed it. This is on the A9 as far as my experience goes. I can't attest to how it compares since I have never tried a Futaba or a DX8 but they published graphs comparing the A9 to a Futaba after they changed the expo curve and they are very similiar.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 07:12 PM
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United States, CA, Carlsbad
Joined Apr 2012
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First and foremost..let me say thank you for the advice. It's been really really helpful. I actually need to go back and reread all the info as there is so much good here. I was going to maiden on a 4s 2500 mAh 25c. It's a flat battery, but was a bit nervous about the 25c.

Any advice on good batteries? Manual says keep it between 2350 and 2700, but no C rating.

I know I'm being overly anal about all this, but just love the plane and don't want to boch due to stupidity in the build. I feel more comfortable with m flying than the logistics, which starting to quickly realize you need both.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 07:14 PM
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My cheap battery and yes there is a hidden expression here..

My cheap battery and yes there is a hidden expression here..
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 07:21 PM
This is NOT a TOY?
C_Watkins's Avatar
United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Jul 2011
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Give it a shot. Don't fly the plane 'all out' the first time, and see how warm it gets.
If it's still good, go for it, after that, and check again. If the 25c is an honest rating, it's more than enough battery.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:08 PM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
Doc Austin's Avatar
USA, FL, Largo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Avllino View Post
I was going to maiden on a 4s 2500 mAh 25c. It's a flat battery, but was a bit nervous about the 25c.

Any advice on good batteries? Manual says keep it between 2350 and 2700, but no C rating.
I flew mine on 4s 2650 30C before I switched to 65C and it was plenty. I actually flew my first MXS on 3s 2650 30C packs for about the first 24 flights and it was good like that. but it certainly likes 4sd much better.

Quote:
I know I'm being overly anal about all this, but just love the plane and don't want to boch due to stupidity in the build.
When in doubt, follow the manual. My set up is only very slightly different from the manual because I run 88 degrees on the elevator instead of whatever the manual says (don't remember).

If you are really stressed out about it, turn your high elevator rate down to 45 degrees for the first few flights. The MXS is so stable that once you have a few flights on it, you will want more elevator to overcome that, but dial it in 10% at a time.




Quote:
I feel more comfortable with flying than the logistics, which starting to quickly realize you need both.
On just about every part of the build you can take it apart if you screw it up........except getting the tail out is a nasty job. Just make sure you pit the thing in place and measure it a bunch of times before you lock it down with thin CA.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:09 PM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
Doc Austin's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Chris Avllino View Post
My cheap battery and yes there is a hidden expression here..
Is that a subliminal message in that picture?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:16 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Avllino View Post
First and foremost..let me say thank you for the advice. It's been really really helpful. I actually need to go back and reread all the info as there is so much good here. I was going to maiden on a 4s 2500 mAh 25c. It's a flat battery, but was a bit nervous about the 25c.

Any advice on good batteries? Manual says keep it between 2350 and 2700, but no C rating.

I know I'm being overly anal about all this, but just love the plane and don't want to boch due to stupidity in the build. I feel more comfortable with m flying than the logistics, which starting to quickly realize you need both.
25C is okay. I run 30s.

But I run these in my 48"s:

http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-sl2650-4s1p-30c-4444.html

They're out of stock though

Gens Ace makes good stuff, too, for the price. We're still experimenting with batteries to find the best bang for your buck. But what we have so far is if you don't use Zippy 20C blue batteries you're pretty much gonna get pretty good performance. I really like Sky Lipo, however, and I use them in everything from 2S foamies to 10S 5000mAh 27%ers.

--Tom K.

[Disclaimer: I don't own a 48" MXS, but I own 2 48" Edges, 1 48" Extra, 1 60" Edge, 1 78" Extra, and a wish list for everything else]
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:19 PM
OOPS
Manta1's Avatar
USA, GA, Cochran
Joined Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Avllino View Post
First and foremost..let me say thank you for the advice. It's been really really helpful. I actually need to go back and reread all the info as there is so much good here. I was going to maiden on a 4s 2500 mAh 25c. It's a flat battery, but was a bit nervous about the 25c.

Any advice on good batteries? Manual says keep it between 2350 and 2700, but no C rating.

I know I'm being overly anal about all this, but just love the plane and don't want to boch due to stupidity in the build. I feel more comfortable with m flying than the logistics, which starting to quickly realize you need both.
25c will be just fine if it is a quality battery. Obviously,the higher the c rating the better power you will get but i use 25c all the time. sometimes,depending on the manufacturer,the higher the c rating goes the heavier the battery is. ( probly like that across the board lol )but 2500 mah 4s you be rocking
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:53 PM
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United States, CA, Carlsbad
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin View Post
Is that a subliminal message in that picture?
Doc ( et al.),
I seriously thank you for the help and guidance. Using dx7 so went at least 70 percent expo and set it up with duals that on elevator I have about 30 degrees (for low) and full for high. I like the t-28 scenario and trimmed things way down for takeoff and landings. Otherwise I went full on the secondary.
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