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Old Sep 12, 2010, 02:10 AM
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Judo JoNny's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2010
91 Posts
Question
Upgrading from Co-Axial to FP Single Rotor

Hey guys, as the title says I'm basically looking to upgrade from co-axial's to single rotors. I'm sure this thread has probably come up a million times before, and if so I apologize, but I did a search and didn't really find anything I could have added to.

Now I'm relatively new to this hobby, so I don't know too much about what's out there, what's reputable or even about the technological aspect of things...but good thing is that I'm willing to learn. I also assume I'll have to pick up my general repair knowledge if I'm to move forward in this new found hobby.

I've had around 4 months experience of playing around with co-axials, had a lot of fun but as with anything that we stick with, moving forward is inevitable! My aim is to get something that is not too much to handle, but can also teach me something and help me grow as a pilot. I'd also prefer something that can be flown outdoors in a light to moderate breeze, something which all my co-axials have failed to perform. I do eventually intend to make the move to a CP 6 channel one day (though no rush lol).

So far I've been reading as many threads as possible, including the entire CB180D & Z threads. I've come across the Walkera CB180Z, UFly S and the HBFP C2 (I think?). I'm most interested in the UFly S at the moment, going by what I've read, aesthetically and due to its overall size. The CB180Z is nice, but a few posters like "Balr" have mentioned that it basically flies like a co-ax and I wouldn't learn much from it?

Anyway, any further suggestions and advice from you guys would be much appreciated! Also feel free to chime in with your own experiences as well. Thanks in advance!
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 03:08 AM
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Perth, Australia
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If it was me I would avoid all Walkeras like they are the plague. However other people will recommend them. I really find this a weird quirk of walkeras as some people have good experiences with them and others have terrible experiences with them.

For me, the HBFP v2 is a classic FP (simple, durable, upgradeable if you wish but you need not!... just make sure you have access to dealers to get parts e.g. MiracleMart are pretty good for us aussies... don't go to your local hobby store as they tend to be ABSOLUTELY crap in australia for price mark ups unless they are a specialised rc heli shop... e.g. for me i have access to take of and land which is basically only interested in align heli's and has everything priced at about what i'd get it online + shipping to me, plus they have an online store... so depending on my mood... time of night that i am bothered to look at what i need to order). Other options include the Xeon/Neon conversion kits (basically HBFP parts shifted across to a different frame and you can go full separates/brushless like the attractiveness on specification sheets of the Walkera's without the crappy parts/manufacturing and piss poor performance).

There's also the Hirobo Quark (um... haven't flown one myself. Unsure if they are still being supported in parts?). Then you've also got the Funcopter and what not (computery stuff setting it all up for you... more expensive... good for some people, have no idea about them myself).

Seriously though for the cost of any of these you could skip straight to a cheap-ish 450 CP and although scary, it is do-able depending on your access to more experienced people to be with you when you have set it all up and make sure you don't try to do anything stupid.

Anything less than $200 that includes a cheapish radio and leaves you with change of ~$20 that can buy enough spare parts to cover any minor crashes is a good deal. Once you start spending more than this you might as well have started considering proper full separates and building a helicopter yourself. This is the problem we have... Walkera's on paper are full separates, brushless and small and RTF and come with their radio. Sounds like an AMAZING deal.... so far i don't dig it. Though i might one day turn back to the dark side and see if they've fixed their quality issues, but would be spektrumising it straight away.

Not sure any of this streaming consciousness helps.

Basically it seems that the 90 degree flybar FP has become redundant/non-existant in the current market. Which is CRAZY.... if anything an RTF spektrumised 90 degree flybar FP with brushless motor and belted tail would sell like hotcakes. Though it doesn't exist.
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 08:05 AM
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Judo JoNny's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2010
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Thanks for the input mate, don't worry I think I got most of that haha. What has your experience been with Walkera? I've read through quite a number of threads involving them lately, and just as you mentioned a number of people aren't big fans, whilst others have nothing but glowing praise for them. I have learned that their TX's are limited in range which is somewhat off-putting, but if its "manageable" I guess I'll give it a pass.

I've also looked at the HBFP V2 (thanks for the correction), I like the "look" of the UFly better but that is not my top priority. So far, from what you have mentioned it does sound like a good option for me. The only thing holding me back from getting any Esky was that my LHS's state that they don't stock their parts, so I naturally assumed they would be hard to come by. Then again I'm facing a similar ordeal with Walkera...hmm. My LHS mostly stocks E-flite gear, but there is a vendor at the local market who sells Esky stuff. To be honest though, concerning these more expensive copters I'd much rather deal with a reputable store, whether it's online or just the LHS.

In my original starry eyed phase (a couple of months back) I was fully intending to make the plunge to a CP, but after calming down a little and learning more about heli's in general I came to the conclusion that I would most likely be unable to handle them. The problem is I don't have much access to experienced people, I only know of one guy and he's more a friend of a friend kind of deal lol. I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to cultivate a working relationship there, but as it stands I have no "go-to" guys except for y'all on this forum. If I were to entertain this idea, what "cheap" 450 CP would you recommend?
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 09:41 AM
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USA, IN, Commiskey
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I too would like to recommend the HBFP. Being a new heli pilot and no one to help out. I started with the coax, and went straight to the 450 cp. That was a big mistake. Didn't know how to set it up right, and it was way to much for me to handle. After many crashes and a lot of money I gave up. When I found out about the lowly Honey Bee and bought one, went form barely hovering to ff in one week. The honey bee can take a crash that would total a 450 and go right back in the air without any damage. You will want to keep some parts on hand anything will brake. The parts are cheep and easy to get on line. I have a Walkera cb180d and love it but the HBFP is a better learning tool. Once you master the HBFP the move to the cp will be easy, and I'm sure you will allways want to have a FP heli around.
Just my 4 cents. "Inflation and all"
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 10:13 AM
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
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Walkera has a habit of "almost" getting things right. They release a lot of products that they just didn't quite finish developing. Conventional wisdom has always been to wait for the third version of any Walkera heli. By then they get it right, or take it off the market. People who praise them appreciate the size and the new technology they bring and don't mind a lot of upgrading and tinkering. Newer people tend to be more forgiving as well. Those that have been around for a while see it as more of the same old stuff from Walkera. You also have to appreciate that Walkera changes and introduces models frequently. That means there is no aftermarket and parts availability can be an issue. At last count, they had about 60 models. A retailer would go broke trying to stock parts for all of them.

That being said, the UFlyS is one of Walkera's better efforts. It really has no major flaws. But, it is a Hiller head FP heli, so it will still exhibit most of the same traits as any Hiller head FP heli. It's shaft drive tail holds a lot better than a motor driven tail. It's a nice heli for the price.

However, there are good reasons why the HBFP V2 is recommended over the UFly. Their flight characteristics are very similar. THe HBFP V2 has less power and the motor driven tail doesn't hold as well or last as long. But, it is very cheap, extremely durable and easy and cheap to fix. Parts availability is much better. ESky helis have a huge aftermarket. Consequently, the HBFP has many upgrades available that the UFly does not have.
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 10:23 AM
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I would recommend the Honeybee over any of the Walkeras. None of the Walkeras I had ever worked really good and they are fragile. I have tumbled my Honeybee across the ground like an off-road RC truck (when I came in for a hard landing) with zero damage.

The thing takes more abuse than any helicopter I have had. Just when you get the Honeybee, buy the SuperBlades XP and the XTreme metal flybar control and you will have the best FP copter there is.
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 11:40 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2010
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Where do you guys generally order your HBFP? I've been looking around on eBay, and the prices there are generally around $200 AUD. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough? I did find one on Walkera's own site that is only selling for around $93USD...add in postage etc and I can probably have it for around $150AUD shipped. Not too bad. Most of the eBay additions offer a free simulator package though, or is that standard?

The only thing is that HK's Walkera sale is very tempting. I'm actually considering getting both haha, utilize the HBFP as a "trainer" since its the more durable of the pair, and maybe fly the Ufly S for fun once I'm more experienced? What do you guys think?

Are the flight characteristics for both similar? The Ufly S is more powerful right? I'm liking the brushless motor and design, but I'm also a fan of durability and spare parts availability. I'm going to crash at some point, so its nice to be prepared for that.
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Old Sep 12, 2010, 11:46 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Oh yeah, just one more thing...is there anything particularly bad about the HBFP? I've read that its durable, which is great, but how about the tail motor etc? Are they known for burning out at all? How is the standard Tx that comes with it? Good range etc? Thanks again.

So far:

Ufly S

Pros: Well designed, brushless motor, no tail motor, decent performer

Cons: Poor transmitter range, not very durable, possible tendency to eat main/tail gears?

HBPF

Pros: Durable, cheaper, good parts support, easily upgradeable

Cons: ....? No idea...haha.

----

That sound about right so far?
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 12:53 AM
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Germantown, WI.
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The cons of the HBFP V2 are a tail motor that wears out pretty quickly and doesn't hold real well and more slop in the handling.
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 01:41 AM
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Judo JoNny's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
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Thanks again Balr! It does sound like a great "training" heli for the next step up. I just re-read your initial post and realized you actually answered many of my questions/queries in there lol. I apologize. I've been posting on the run lately due to a busy schedule.

Do you consider my idea of getting both viable, or a waste? I usually wouldn't, but as I mentioned before HK's price is quite tempting lol. Thus far the cheapest I've found the HBFP for is ironically on Walkera's own site.
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 05:13 AM
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Perth, Australia
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miracle-mart is pretty good for Esky stuff shipped to Australia.

You want the 2.4 gHz HBFP v2 with a Lipo. Do not get the AM ones (which are still sold at LHS's here), nor the nicad ones.
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 06:54 AM
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Judo JoNny's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogibbear View Post
miracle-mart is pretty good for Esky stuff shipped to Australia.

You want the 2.4 gHz HBFP v2 with a Lipo. Do not get the AM ones (which are still sold at LHS's here), nor the nicad ones.
Thanks mate. I just checked out their website, unfortunately they're out of stock. It's actually slightly cheaper than the Walkera site as well, going for $89AUD. Btw do all HBFP v2's come with a simulator? That sounds pretty handy. Also how does this helicopter handle a light to moderate breeze?
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 07:18 AM
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Perth, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judo JoNny View Post
Thanks mate. I just checked out their website, unfortunately they're out of stock. It's actually slightly cheaper than the Walkera site as well, going for $89AUD. Btw do all HBFP v2's come with a simulator? That sounds pretty handy. Also how does this helicopter handle a light to moderate breeze?
The simulator is FMS which is already free and isn't very good at all. You don't want to use it except for a once off laugh.

< 5 km/h and you can fly the HBFP with no modifications. At about 5-10 km/h some skill and prior knowledge of how the heli is going to handle and what to do is required. (Though you won't cause too much damage if you do it just for fun to see what happens). It is low headspeed and not massive cyclic speeds so moderate wind isn't going to be good for it. The good thing is you can practice hovering one of these in about the size of a car bay garage sized area.
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 11:28 AM
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
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I would not buy both, unless you are real fond of FP helis. To most people, they are simply a learning tool. It's also a very good idea to stick to one heli while you learn. Having to adjust to differences between helis, while you are learning, will only retard your progress.
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Old Sep 13, 2010, 12:33 PM
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AtTheCross's Avatar
Southern CA
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
I would not buy both, unless you are real fond of FP helis. To most people, they are simply a learning tool. It's also a very good idea to stick to one heli while you learn. Having to adjust to differences between helis, while you are learning, will only retard your progress.
lol, i like that, 'real fon of FP..' that's me!!! I love FP and will probably never move to CP
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