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Old Oct 13, 2010, 06:03 PM
James L
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Beck Row Mildenhall
Joined Mar 2009
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Bikaso you are doing everything really well. Your friend who maidened this for you and made a good job, would it be possible for him to be there when you fly this yourself? If so is there any chance having a buddy box set up that you could borrow for at least this session? That way he can help you if you run into difficulties.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 11:45 PM
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dubai
Joined Oct 2010
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Maxthrottle>>>thanks for he advice . do u have the same plane couse its seams like u know more about it??and what was ur first plane?

BEELZEBOB?>> hay bro actually in my life i learn my self with my self by trying every thing .my first car was pontiac gto and i never drive before so i was in love with this car and all the people told me u will distroy it and after 1 week of driving it i was driving in 250km/h and passing people in the highway i know flying is diffract put at least i wan to say that i dair to do the hard and the stupid things

TANGOSIERRAROM>>> yes he will be there and i told him that he can be beside me and maybe land it for me for the first time so i will learn bit by bit
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bikaso View Post
Maxthrottle>>>thanks for he advice . do u have the same plane couse its seams like u know more about it??and what was ur first plane?
Oh that was decades ago. Citabra I guess was the first. It didn't last long since I was entirely on my own in a field all to my self. Later a Kadet to get my wings at the club. These are basic trainers. Within a month I was flying my Kadet inverted and sloppy knife edges, something many said you couldn't do.....
The person who first instructed me at a club was an older retired military pilot. He wouldn't let me do anything, like have fun he had me repeatedly do simple stuff but it had to be perfect to scale before he'd let me move on; no willy nilly.
I was getting fed up and even the other instructors started thinking he was going over board. One time when he didn't make it, one of the other instructors had me go thru the wings test since he already knew that I could fly and I passed that same day.

My instructor wasn't too happy but it was obvious I passed the test requirements. A month or so later I went out on a fall windy day which with cross wind can get difficult at our field lined with tall trees.
I was glad I had an oversized tank and the fact that he showed up out of no where. 35mph cross wind with even higher gusts he asked what I was doing out here. I said trying to land. He said then why don't you. The wind keeps changing and its getting worse and I'm having a hard time crabbing.
Swallowing my pride I asked him if he could get it down.
No word of a lie, within seconds he grabbed my TX, the wind felt like it was up in the 40s but he brought it down like it was a still day with the exception that the model was landing crabbing 45* straight and center down the runway. It even flipped after it stopped as he handed me my TX. I smiled.

That taught me even though I was ok or even doing well, I had a lot to learn and realized it could get above my head pretty easy. The whol club was even more surprised to see me letting him continue training me.

I don't have the F14, but after 40 something planes 3D Jets etc and studying aeronautics for so long you get to know what to expect. This model 1200g but the wing area is low and you don't have flaps or rudder for it. The variable geometry changes the center of lift as the wings sweep which many have said they needed to add pitch up to the stabilators when the wings were tucked. For anyone that can get interesting, your experienced friend it may have been fun, for a first plane first flight... well lets hope you are exceptional Its not like an F22 with big wing area. You have to keep your speed and stay ahead of it.

If you really want to have few flights let your friend either buddy box or hand the TX to you while its in the air. Get a feel for what you can do. A SIM puts your head in the game but I have yet to see one that relates wind changes, perspective, depth perception and sudden changing momentum and lose of lift that results in bent landing gear. Tall grass or let your friend land it till you think you're ready. No harm in taking it a step at a time.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 11:39 AM
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dubai
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bighead93 View Post
Is it the new 55MM F-14? If yes I would set your timer for about 3-4 minutes. You might have a hard time flying this...if it is your very first RC Airplane! If you decide to "GO FOR IT" make sure you check everything! Make sure that your control surfaces are moving the correct way! Fly in a really open area with little wind. Double check the CG and make sure you have charged the battery! I hope that it lasts more than one flight...if not I don't want to tell you I told you so. EDF's don't take crashes as good as something like a Super Cub!
hay man . u have the realflight g4.5 right? if so then i recorded a video throw the realflight g4.5 if u can watch it and tell me haw is my flying ?any one can help plz if u can i really appreciate it so if u don't mind can u send me ur email so i can mail it to u because as i think i cant upload any files here?
thanks v.much
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikaso View Post
hay man . u have the realflight g4.5 right? if so then i recorded a video throw the realflight g4.5 if u can watch it and tell me haw is my flying ?any one can help plz if u can i really appreciate it so if u don't mind can u send me ur email so i can mail it to u because as i think i cant upload any files here?
thanks v.much
And if someone said you are great on a SIM still wouldn't mean you can fly the more difficult types or models because there a many things that may not translate to the real world. EDFs are much more responsive at speed and sloppy when slow but the SIM doesn't show that very well.
Its a start but the real world is something you just have to try.
Watch this video and list to what an experienced test pilot is thinking/saying re this model;
Art-Tech F-14 Twin-Engine Brushless RC Jet with Sweepback Wings Review by Tony (11 min 36 sec)
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 04:57 PM
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Interesting video. This is a model that seems to me to be a prime candidate for delta wing / elevon mixing on those full flight surfaces (just like the real plane). I don't understand why the plane is not set up this way. I am not surprised the aileron response is so poor when the wings are swept. I'd hate to see how much lift bleeds off in the fully swept position, which I noticed he did not even attempt. Seems like a handful even for the experienced pilot in the video.

It also probably needs a lot more power than it has to fly properly in the swept position (just like the real plane). As it is, it seems really sluggish and nose heavy (no surprise since the MAC / CG moves back). Interesting that they did pull it off though.
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Old Oct 17, 2010, 09:58 PM
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Townsville, Australia
Joined Sep 2009
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Quick thought on the moving MAC/CG issue with swing-wing models..

Many moons ago, I saw a prop-jet style F-111 with working wing sweep. The builder/pilot overcame the issue by cutting a couple of substantial washers in half, and fixing them on the trailing edge of the wings, out towards the wingtips.

When the wings were extended, they were almost on the CG. As the wings moved back, the MAC/CG moved back, but the extra weight on the end of the swept back wings now laid back along the fuselage helped to compensate for this.
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Old Oct 18, 2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clinth01 View Post
Quick thought on the moving MAC/CG issue with swing-wing models..

Many moons ago, I saw a prop-jet style F-111 with working wing sweep. The builder/pilot overcame the issue by cutting a couple of substantial washers in half, and fixing them on the trailing edge of the wings, out towards the wingtips.

When the wings were extended, they were almost on the CG. As the wings moved back, the MAC/CG moved back, but the extra weight on the end of the swept back wings now laid back along the fuselage helped to compensate for this.
This was soley added for the queries of the new pilot and is a little more detailed than just a checklist for EDF entry cadets.

Some one else made the same comment and its doesn't work well. By using weight it becomes nose heavier wings extended and balance wing swept or neither if you shift cg to balance in between. FS Designers don't add dead weight to adjust flight profiles. Weight is your enemy.

MAC applies less here since you are not dealing with a 25% of foils MAC when the wing is swept. The wing takes on a different foil profile and becomes more like a delta generating lift via vortex and is dependent on the angle of the new wing foil shape when it is swept. The model makers have it sweep too low and could have had the sweep angle up slightly to compensate.

Either way, as the center of lift shift back it means the AoA of the overall foil has to be optimized. The AoA is always set by the stab or in this case the taileron. Thus adjusting the taileron without adding dead weight allow the model to fly better in its various flight envelopes.
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Old Oct 18, 2010, 02:30 PM
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http://downloads.hobbico.com/misc/gp...rod-hookup.pdf
linkage setup on EDFs are different than on 3D models. I see pics of EDFs with the linkages on the outside hole of the servo arm all the time and then the newbie complains of porpoising or it being very twitchy and the first thing many say is add expo.
Try maximizing resolution to the servo travel first before all other concerns with the exception of avoiding the linkage hanging up against any structure.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 10:32 AM
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Joined Jul 2008
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G'day all, I thought that I would also chime in with my $0.02 if I may.

Firstly let me say that nothing is impossible! I taught myself to fly with a freewing L39 I bought as a RTF. I already thought I had enough of a back ground in aviation with my father being a pilot and me having just commenced a combined FW and heli licence, and I still feel it put my alot further along the learning curve. I had also started to use a simulator and I cannot speak highly enough of them. They may not model everything a serious RC pilot might want but just simply getting used to orientation and inputs to the point where I didn't have to think first also helped. I also tried to fly patterns and set myself up for landings until I could fly the same virtual approach, with just about any virtual aircraft, virtually all of the time.
My poor old L-39 still copped it though, after my first flight I learned that I had no ability to fly smoothly or with anything less than max stick deflections. After my second flight and repair job I also learned that I really should get a lot higher to trim out and to not fly over my head directly between myself and the sun.
After this the curve eased out a bit and the magnetic trees became what really worried me. I still had dumb thumb moments and stripped her out when she became more epoxy than foam.

My next aircraft was a RTF Waco which I threw out the TX and RX and flew with my new dx6i. I gained a lot more confidence using this TX as it just felt light years better in my hands. I still continued to try and make every approach and landing count and finally wrote it off moving house when a tv dropped on it. I have since flown only prop warbirds but would feel entirely comfortable flying another foamy EDF.

So what have I tried to say,
1. If you can afford to, get a simulator and practice. Play as much as you want but also take the time every time to practice flying head on to yourself, and to practice landing and taking off, and to take pride in it when you can do all these things. Endeavour to fly as smoothly as you can with the smallest and least frequent inputs as possible.
2. If you can afford to, buy a decent transmitter, you will feel the quality difference! Use it with your simulator too if you can.
3. When you start with a new aircraft have an idea about what you're going to do in that flight, if it's a first I like to try and get it up nice and high to trim and discover stall behaviour etc.
4. Don't be too bummed out if you crash.
5. I believe anyone can learn to fly anything, and if people want to tell you otherwise that's just their opinion. We're doing this to have fun.

Lastly when checking control surfaces try standing behind the plane, when you move your sticks the control surface should come up to meet it, e.g. right roll input - right aileron should lift, pitch up - the elevators should raise. It sounds simple but it's what I do every time I fly any scale.

Cheers.

Tom
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Old Oct 21, 2010, 09:56 PM
JUNK RADIO
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USA, NY, Queens
Joined Dec 2006
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nice
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Old Oct 28, 2010, 12:46 AM
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Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
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I like these for first and second trainer. in EDF.

Manuel V.
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Old Nov 01, 2010, 04:26 PM
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United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Jan 2010
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Just thought I'd give some personal insight about EDF (and a newbie).

I had been flying foamie warbirds (park and micro sized) for a few months, and bought one of those 50mm J-power deals. I had no clue as to what I was doing, and that plane took off and I couldn't really see it as the entire (free) flight was a blur. I eventually found it in 30 pieces, pieced it back together, and waited...for a long time. Then, in fear of the same scenario, I sold it.

Later, I decided to get a MPX funjet. I thought it was going to be a similar disaster, but to my surprise, this thing flies awesome and very fast or very slow. So, after a little more research (or lack of), I settled on a Max-Jet F-35 recently. My reason was cost. It was only $75 for a RX R.

Well. it flew. It actually flew. It barely flew. I had to keep it at WOT most of the time to keep it in the air, but I was able to fly and control and land it. I am glad this plane (and the funjet) got me to overcome the fear and give me back some hope and confidence. That made my day! I didn't think I could do it. But, if I were to do it again, I would have bought something a little nicer.

This is why:

Running a 1300 3s is a bit of a pain as it gets 2.5min of flight time (I need to hack up the lower compartments to try to center a 2200 30c or will that make it too heavy to fly?). I got 2 flights, 20C batteries were overly worked and puffed. I have no idea if the ESC or motor can handle a 4s battery. The included servos don't always center, CG was a guess, no wing spar, fan vibrates, and the unaccessible set screw on the steering horn is loose... these are things you may want to consider with a pre-built cheapie. I wish I could get some form of specs on the motor and ESC. Since I can't, they are kind of useless, as are these servos. I'm not all that fond of the foam used either. The Jpower EPO is much better than this EPS for a jet. It easily dings and scratches, and the lower hatch finger slots are worn out trying to get the hatch off (so I could clean up the dangling wiring mess directly in front of the fan unit.)
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Old Nov 02, 2010, 02:02 PM
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Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
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SF Su-27 EDF.
Su-27.001 (0 min 8 sec)

Su27.002 (0 min 6 sec)


Manuel V
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 10:33 PM
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London, ON Canada
Joined Nov 2009
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So, I've put some thought into my first EDF, the nitroplanes 70mm F4 Phantom. I picked 70mm over 64mm because they seem floatier and less twitchy. Bigger is better, easier to see, better wing loading. Earlier in the thread it was said by our panel of experts that the F4 is a bad choice, and I disagree. Although I have seen videos of the smaller exceed version and yes, that one looks very hard to fly. Actually terrible on all fronts. So maybe that was it?
The F4 has large delta style wings, I hear the 70mm is very light and big. Sounds floaty to me. I thought I was being clever with this one, the fans blow under the elevator, maybe making stall recovery a little easier, at least with pitch.
So it's an airframe only, I'll be putting in quality servos and RX. A cheap yet powerful hobbyking motor and turnigy plush 60amp ESC. I'm fairly confident I'll bring it back in one piece if the power system quits so long as my RX and servos are functioning correctly.

So currently I fly foamy warbirds. I fly the parkzone corsair very well fast or slow (plus a couple other foamy 4-channels). I can do inverted, hammerhead stalls, all the usual immelmans, cubans, short distance knife edges (I think its the gull wings making them short) etc.
Before the corsair I actually was flying a parkzone Slo-V and transferred just fine to the corsair right away (thanks to my sim I'm sure) so I don't really think taking the plunge to an EDF is quite as big a deal as it's made out to be... yes I agree it will be different.
I guess we'll have to see if I walk the walk, but I'm optimistic about the upcoming adventure. Guess I'll report back later once it happens! (the F4 is a Xmas present, have to wait)
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