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Old Sep 14, 2010, 04:02 AM
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Si Goodchild's Avatar
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If this thread even helps a few new EDF pilots I will be happy! Let me tell you a recent story: So I am out at the local park doing some 3-D flying and enjoying the nice weather when a dad and son show up with a F-15 (looked like one from Nitro Planes/Hobby Lobby). I can't help to notice that they look like real rookies. I land and say hi and ask them about the plane. "First day out with our new jet!" I ask what size lipo is it using? "Whatever came with it!" I ask "you need any help with a range check or anything?" "Nope...everything seems to be working"!! They were using the stock RTF radio so I told the dad to make sure that the control surfaces were moving the right directions and to be sure that he had it on the low rates. I even went as far as setting up a timer for them as I told him that size (it was a 3S 1300 is only good for about 3-4 mins per flight) and he said he was fine and would keep tabs on the time with his watch. I stepped away and watched from about 30' away. Dad hooks up everything and takes off...F-15 just makes it off of the dirt runway and heads up into the sky...doesn't look like he is in control at all...I can see Dad fighting with the controller and moving his arms as he tries to steer it counter clockwise...makes it up about a 100' or so and seems to get it under control for now...his son is really excited! On his third pass around the field it appeared that Dad over steered the F-15 in a left bank turn and she entered a down line spin....down and down she comes and then BOOM!!! Smack right into the ground! The nose was crushed all the way down to the fan...lipo was crushed but didn't catch fire...looked to be a total loss...and the poor Dad looked really bummed out as he walked back across the field with his son. Didn't say a word to me as he left. Now I personally have flown the F-15 and like the way it flies! Nice and slow and lands really easy! I have to guess that this was this guys first RC plane (maybe got it as a gift or something).
Sounds like that crash was gonna happen no matter what the model type was, even a high-wing prop-driven trainer.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 08:30 AM
Effumall
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Joined Nov 2005
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Agree that EDFs aren't too much different than a warbird, for instance.

What I would add is that a noob should get really good flying a fast wing like a Stryker or Slinger. Gives you practice having no propwash over the surfaces.

I think the Freewing EPO F-86 and MiG-15 are the best, least expensive and most durable and repairable first EDFs. Agree the FM Skyray is an easy flier, but it's EPS (beer cooler) foam, and not too durable/repairable.

The last thing I would recommend is to avoid gray or camo schemes, or if you have one, paint a big orange stripe on the bottom and on the fin. Keep it in close, especially if it's a small EDF.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 07:40 PM
James L
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Beck Row Mildenhall
Joined Mar 2009
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On his third pass around the field it appeared that Dad over steered the F-15 in a left bank turn and she entered a down line spin....down and down she comes and then BOOM!!! Smack right into the ground!

I think this is a lesson for all new pilots if by down line spin you mean a spiral dive. This is very hard to learn what to do about it without knowing what is going on. It looks as though opposite aileron and stick back and out she will come. In fact that will not work too well. The problem is the lower wing is stalled so opposite aileron actually tends to deepen the stall on that wing and up elevator tightens the spiral but lowers the airspeed. However It looks as though it is flying and not stalled.

If you have a rudder you can go opposite with that after the most important thing, which is to get the nose down first to build sufficient airspeed for the lower wing to start flying again. I know most of you already know this but I remember the fist time I encountered this I barely managed to get away with it because it looked as though my plane was still flying, it just wouldn't respond, until I dived it which also opens up the spiral and out she came, about 10 feet above the ground, I seem to remember that was when I unclenched.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 07:48 PM
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A spiral dive is just that, a dive, nothing is stalled. If one wing is stalled its a spin.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 05:04 AM
James L
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Beck Row Mildenhall
Joined Mar 2009
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Quite true merlinfan if it is a true spiral dive nothing is stalled my bad terminology. I have a 2foot wingspan delta model that usually enters this mode after a spin of one to two turns then it will enter this wide spiral perhaps 30 feet in diameter, and the lower wing is behaving as though it is stalled the recovery is always the same, throttle back, pitch down then roll level. if you try and roll level on the elevons alone it will not roll out, until you get the spiral widened out. The appearance is like a spiral dive but flatter as a rule in that if left alone the nose will drop and the spiral tighten, if you pull back on the stick the spiral tightens and it stays fairly flat. If you give opposite elevon it will do nothing at all. if you pitch down the spiral widens and the opposite elevon will then work.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 07:23 AM
RC-Kraut
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Originally Posted by bighead93 View Post
I would also like to add - use fuel tubing over the control horns!! At least the elevators!
What is the reason for this, maybe I have a language problem? Is there a pic about that?
I fly all my jets without this, successful.

But I remember my first EDF flight (phase 3 EF-16) after flying the PZ Corsair as very first larger RC plane, my knees and fingers were trembling horrible, but it worked.

I would say, an EDF can be considered, if a 3-Axis motorplane is handled fast, precise and witout thinking about the sticks moves. That must come "automatic".

very good thread - thumbs up + + +
markus
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Old Sep 16, 2010, 08:23 PM
it goes sideways...
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Oakland, CA
Joined Jul 2007
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This is all good info for me :-) I just started into the edf area with a hobby lobby MiG-15 and while the actual flights have been great I find that launches and landings are a bit different that I've become used to. My high wing, low wing, and even my Addiction 3d, will land slower than this little MiG! I takes getting used to...and plenty of glue to re-build the bits that snap off (oops).
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Old Sep 16, 2010, 11:40 PM
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well i made a decision. im going to go with a pusher flat foamie typhoon and get the skilz dailed back in. then later ill get a true df typhoon. going with the nico hobbies typhoon. good deal right price. its nice since the propwash doesnt go over the control surfaces. so it will ack like a bit like a df. thanks for the help guys.
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 12:21 PM
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lol, that first post definetely sums up EDFs for beginners. I think I was unusually I hoped on an F4D-1 Skyray (which is easy to fly) after I modded my Super Cub a ton; but one of my buddies got a F-15 with thrust vectoring that was an RTF right after he had his Super Cub (3 channel, had no aileron mods) and crashed the plane within about 10 seconds (8 of which were taxiing). He still can't land the Super Cub on the runway without it bouncing and nosing over, and he never uses rudder, so EDFs are definetely a step up from most aircraft.
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 01:08 PM
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Another great first EDF is the Parkzone Habu. Since nobody has remebered it before in this thread, here comes some nice Habu photos!




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Old Sep 21, 2010, 11:12 PM
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USA, CO, Durango
Joined Sep 2010
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Well I just bought my first EDF, HK mini F4 Phantom EPP kit. Also happens to be my first RC plane ever, so this will be interesting. I should have read bighead93's check list first, but learning under the gun is effective I suppose.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10714
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Old Sep 21, 2010, 11:25 PM
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i would reccomend putting that thing up to look at and get something a bit easier to fly for a first plane. ive flown for quite a few years and i started on a simulator first tehn moved to a trainer then to others and gradually got faster and better at landing.(thats the most important aspect of flying, you gotta bring it back in one piece) good luck.
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Old Sep 21, 2010, 11:48 PM
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That F-4 will take a hit but it is going to be a bit touchy! Fly over grass or tall weeds!
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Lincolnshire, UK
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My thoughts: More is almost always less.

Every time I see a jet advertised as having 11 servos, twin EDFs with twin 360 degree vectoring landing lights, retracts, smoke, illuminated afterburners, forward slats, airbrakes, opening canopy, moving canards, split flaps, ejecting pilot etc I think to myself "Wow, I bet that looks great when showing of to your mates on the ground. And I bet it flies absolutely crap too." With all that stuff there's more to go wrong and more weight to haul around the sky.

Give me a well sorted, simple and lightweight jet every time. Hell, I even reduced the number of servos in my Typhoon by one and in my new F16 build I've reduced from 4 to 2.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Goodchild View Post
My thoughts: More is almost always less.

Every time I see a jet advertised as having 11 servos, twin EDFs with twin 360 degree vectoring landing lights, retracts, smoke, illuminated afterburners, forward slats, airbrakes, opening canopy, moving canards, split flaps, ejecting pilot etc I think to myself "Wow, I bet that looks great when showing of to your mates on the ground. And I bet it flies absolutely crap too." With all that stuff there's more to go wrong and more weight to haul around the sky.

Give me a well sorted, simple and lightweight jet every time. Hell, I even reduced the number of servos in my Typhoon by one and in my new F16 build I've reduced from 4 to 2.
I agree. I like my Squall EDF, 3 servos, and they each have two linkages to connect to thrust-vectoring paddles on the exhaust. It's a nice light-weight cheap way to make a small fun, affordable aircraft. And with an edf with all the stuff listed above that's an RTF, you know everything is the cheapest possible, and it's always foam so it won't ever look really good even with all those features.
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