There is NOTHING different about how the aircraft performs with expo versus no expo. Your max control is still the same, and the aerodynamics are still the same. All expo does is modify the amount you need to move to make the control move, this in turn is directly proportional to how sensitive the pilot is/can be for movements. True, it may be easier for a less experienced pilot because they can't pay attention/know that a little movement results in a large change in attitude, though nothing is changing on the performance and experience end--as I said, it is all about preference.

Originally Posted by Azn_Ace

BTW - I use a word processor, am in the computer industry designing next generation computing devices, listen to music on my iPhone, and have a 60" edge-lit LCD TV

I had/have a iPod, but the screen cracked when I dropped it on our dirt road. We have a 5 year old TV, though don't get TV and still use video cassettes from time to time, and our internet maxes at 200kbps if your LUCKY, and averages 80kbps. I use expo

let's face it, expo is there to make the sticks less sensitive around center, so we can have less movement of the surfaces with the same amount of stick movement. the fact of the matter is, that with proper control setup, the very same thing can be achieved without the need to use expo as a crutch for poor control setup. those are the facts of the case. after saying that, I don't care if you use expo or not, we all do the same thing, right?...............fly our planes for the fun of the hobby.

I flew ICDF back in the 80's, probably before some of you were even born and the rest of you were probably very young...............with the exception of some, of course. we didn't have expo, servo reversing, programming, etc, etc, and we flew them as best we could. when the engines behaved themselves, they flew great, albeit slightly underpowered and always at the point of detonation. you/us guys have it good these days and I say use everything you have at your disposal to make your life easier. if expo makes you happy and more importantly, a better pilot, use it. if you want to learn how to set up a plane better so you don't have to use it, then learn it and/or ask how. you can't learn if you don't ask questions and then, repetition is the essence of higher learning.

I agree with Max here..............you can't learn something if you never seek the answer to the question not asked. make sense? the point to that statement is, keep flying with expo and when you are ready to learn how to use less of it, then do just that............learn how. either way, do what makes you happy and keeps you in the air longer.

thread has drifted a little...

Originally Posted by Azn_Ace

It's not always the plane's fault

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz08GaPba7U

Hey! Get outta my tree! That's MY tree! lol

Originally Posted by sniper1

I agree. Claiming only unskilled pilots use expo is pretty narrow minded. If you have power assisted steering on your car, and i dont, doesnt mean im a better driver than you, its just nicer driving some vehicles with it. Expo can be used as a crutch for learners, and a preference for experienced skilled flyers. I know some very skilled rc piolts, and they use expo on certain models. I have a little experience flying and i use expo on some of my models and not on others. It depends on the model, and the style i fly them. I have flown a model with the alerons reversed, but i prefer not to!
Heres a video of my F-16 with a little expo dialled in. Im obviously not as skilled as you guys that dont use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yq5OtV3TiE

That video pretty much sold me on a phase 3 F-16.
Great, have to read a 1000 page thread once I get one to properly set her up, but oh well....
Actually truthfully the Airfield 70mm and Phase 3 might be neck in neck.

Airfield F-4 Phantom = AWESOME!!!!

Officially hooked on EDF for the couple days we had no snow (it's back)

Originally Posted by Ispintechno

That video pretty much sold me on a phase 3 F-16.

totally agree

Originally Posted by snivilous

holy dude, that F-16 is sweet. What power are you using? That thing hauls ass and seems to just leap out of your hand. Coincedently, I have Vertigo by U2 in my "flying" play list of songs lol.

Thanks guys. The Phase 3 F-16 is pretty old now, but still one of the best flying edf's for the money. Its not as fancy looking as the newer jets, but its stock top speed of around 70mph on a 3 cell, and fantastic slow speed handling due to its all flying stabs is awesome. No bad tip stall tendancies, and will glide for ever.

I converted mine to 4 cell with a Dons Rc motor and 60 amp esc. It has over 1:1 power to weight ratio, so from a slow high alpha pass it can climb vertically out of sight. Its true airspeed now is just over 100mph, but some of those flybys in the video were clocked at 115mph downwind and passing only a few feet away from my wife with the camera. She's also glad i use expo, as the slightest wrong move at those speeds so close to her head, would be very bad for her health!
Guys on the F-16 thread have this baby going 177mph with a lot of mods! Its got to be one of the most efficient foamy airframes for any motor. For example, if i took the powerplant out of my 90mph F15 Eagle, and put it into the Phase 3 F-16 it would go 120mph. If i took the powerplant out of my 110mph F-18 Hornet and put it in the F-16, it would go over 150mph! But its not all about speed as i prefer a good looking scale jet than just a drag racer. Its a great flying plane, and never fails to silence the "I was flying before you were born brigade". Its always worth checking it out if your on a budget now but want to modify later. Theres good reason why the upgrades thread was the longest ever on Rcgroups and had to be closed down!

I had the Phase 3 Squall! (had as in I was doing a pass literally about an inch off the runway, literally flying in ground effect at full throttle, had setup a dual rate for it, and there's this one bump in the runway and my intake came right off as I hit). I would guess my top speed was around 70-80mph, and likewise, I've done passes with a buddy standing next to me where you could reach out and touch it as it rocketed by, sweet plane, just need to buy a new airframe for it

I've flown the P3 F-16 and it's a great little plane for 50 bucks. and yes, it will do 177MPH with the correct frame mods and a %$#@ load of amps through the powertrain.

and as far as us "I was flying before you were born brigade" are concerned, ya might want to listen to us occasionally, cause we may have picked a few things up along the way. especially those of us who flew ICDF, long before EDF was ever thought about. if we could pilot those flying bricks with what we had available, we must have been doing something partially right. LOL

Originally Posted by sniper1

She's also glad i use expo, as the slightest wrong move at those speeds so close to her head, would be very bad for her health!

Expo or not, there's such a thing as mechanical failure. No matter how good a pilot you may be, flying close to someone's head at those speeds is not a good idea...

Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7

I've flown the P3 F-16 and it's a great little plane for 50 bucks. and yes, it will do 177MPH with the correct frame mods and a %$#@ load of amps through the powertrain.

and as far as us "I was flying before you were born brigade" are concerned, ya might want to listen to us occasionally, cause we may have picked a few things up along the way. especially those of us who flew ICDF, long before EDF was ever thought about. if we could pilot those flying bricks with what we had available, we must have been doing something partially right. LOL

LuvEvolution7- I didnt mean to rattle your cage as Im sure you are a fine flyer! So i apologise for any personal offence taken. The 'old school' guys certainly have a wealth of experience and knowledge and i respect that, but in my experience their knowledge is a liitle bias as they are so set in their ways. Again just from my own experience, they tend to look down on us mere mortals and feel compelled to lecture us with their infinate wisdom, shaking their head saying "you dont want to do it like that, you want to do it like this". They then proceed to fly around like Stevie Wonder on drugs, until their model bites the dust. Dont get me wrong i have learned a heck of a lot from them (after filtering out the bull....). Once again this is a generalisation from my own past experiences and not a slur at anyone here. On the other side Im sure you've had your own bad experiences with young maverick pilots thinking they're better than they really are!

Back on subject, was there any conclusion to the best ducted fan models for a beginner? I have the Freewing F-15 airframe with a high power 4 cell set up. It really flies like a trainer as its so stable. Its not really designed for the power i put in it, as it keeps wanting to climb at high speed, but its a real floater at slow speed. Although i wouldnt recomend the stock 3 cell version, as like soooo many of these edf jets, it is dreadfully under powered!

no offence taken. I actually thought it was funny. LOL.

to answer your question, the F-15 will be just fine as a beginner........or anything else with a delta/tailed delta coinfiguration. floaty and fast. how's that for an answer? LOL.

and to further add to the above statement...............any foamie you buy with a 3S battery, will be required to be modded to 4S, if you want any jet-like performance out of it. 3S is lame at best. kinda like riding a half dead horse. LOL. upgrade the motor, ESC and battery pack and you'll smile, A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by sniper1

...
Back on subject, was there any conclusion to the best ducted fan models for a beginner?...

The thread is about things one needs to know trying out EDFs for the first time. Its about what not to do that may otherwise lead one to disappointment. Thus the check list and not so much what the best starter EDF is.

Re getting advise from these forums; find the, "why" a thing is a right way or not rather than perceiving a persona behind what is written; after all its actually our own perception that fills in how we think a person is feeling vs what is just being said. thus my insert to ask why earlier. It shouldn't matter old timer or not, though experience is a good teacher. Finding the nugget from what is being communicated can make all the difference.

I've come across some very misleading information from the experienced, experts or even manufacturers on these forums. Batteries, BECs, setups, ESCs, tailerons vs stab/elevators. But when I actually hunt down actual explanations without pride or prejudice (not saying anyone was), I better understand the differences and that one answer may not fit all circumstances or why something needs to be set a certain way and not another. The flip to this is even with incorrect information, people are still flying and having fun which I figure is why anyone posts in the first place. Is so that others can have fun too.

I have been eye balling the Jetiger.
Nitroplanes sells them and so does Hobby King.
I'm wondering if they would be a good next step after some flying experience with a Stryker "C"


http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=10358


Glen