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Old Mar 08, 2011, 10:23 PM
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I need expo for sensitive control surfaces. What is the crime? At slow speeds, I need maximum deflection, but at high speeds I need stability. Expo gives me both without having to switch between dual rates. It sure beats smashed foam at the end of the day.
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Old Mar 08, 2011, 10:30 PM
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no crime at all. personally, I don't use expo and I don't use dual rates. I fly basically on high rate all the time and it's just a matter of acclimating dumb thumbs to this type of setup and also model setup. like I said before, if you set up your linkages and control horns properly, your use of expo should become non existant........parallel control horns, etc..
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Old Mar 08, 2011, 10:39 PM
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I almost always fly with the dual rates on "high", though i always set them up. I also use expo for more precise flying. The one time I found dual rates and expo insanely nice was with my Squall. I had a dual rate switch for 3D flying (had the thrust vectoring setup), but then had to have low rates for high speed flight and more expo since I would literally "skim" the deck, where an inch in either direction is too much so tons of elevator expo
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 12:13 AM
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It's just a matter of preference. If I didn't have expo for my habu, f-18, funjet, or Sopwith Camel, I wouldn't be able to fly them since they would all be piles of rubble. Even on the Phoenix sim, it makes for a much more satisfying and relaxing time.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
no crime at all. personally, I don't use expo and I don't use dual rates. I fly basically on high rate all the time and it's just a matter of acclimating dumb thumbs to this type of setup and also model setup. like I said before, if you set up your linkages and control horns properly, your use of expo should become non existant........parallel control horns, etc..
I don't use Expo myself as I tend to find I can move the sticks a little or a lot depending on what I want to do, but I think if I was to go into Dynamic Soaring I would probably want to have Expo as when flying at 400mph I would only need about 3mm of movement and for launch and landing and in the early acceleration stages quite a lot more. So I wouldn't condemn the use of Expo by anyone, just do what you are most comfortable with.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind View Post
It's just a matter of preference. If I didn't have expo for my habu, f-18, funjet, or Sopwith Camel, I wouldn't be able to fly them since they would all be piles of rubble. Even on the Phoenix sim, it makes for a much more satisfying and relaxing time.
Thats not a preference thing. Thats the limit of your skills. I've seen bad habits form where expo, amongst other things, are used as a crutch. It limits your skill development in some cases and ability in other cases. On real aircraft there is little preference. There is the optimal flight config that engineers have tested.

You're in the air which is a great start. But you are arguing that such a setup is fine. So if I reprogrammed an F-16 to be manageable for an inexperienced flier, I could then send them out against an experienced SU-27 pilot and they would hold their own?
Obviously not. So when a bunch of experienced people are saying they use little if no expo and are flying various models and doing much more than what you've even attempted, wouldn't it serve you better to find out the why or what, than saying the way you have it is fine.

Have you learned to crab, stall recover, controlled approach, etc etc etc? What have you done 3D even with a jet.

Learning is only as hard as you make it. And you learn more quickly from observing others many experiences rather than learning each and every experience on your own. Your choice; which doesn't justify it, it just means you'll be slower to learn the experience.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 03:54 PM
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Thats not a preference thing. Thats the limit of your skills.
Expo has nothing to do with skills. Sure, it helps beginners maybe, but that has nothing to do with how experienced you are. It's how you fly, if two people can do the exact same maneuver but one uses expo, that doesn't mean he has any less experience. It's all preference.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 04:36 PM
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Expo has nothing to do with skills. Sure, it helps beginners maybe, but that has nothing to do with how experienced you are. It's how you fly, if two people can do the exact same maneuver but one uses expo, that doesn't mean he has any less experience. It's all preference.
I agree. Claiming only unskilled pilots use expo is pretty narrow minded. If you have power assisted steering on your car, and i dont, doesnt mean im a better driver than you, its just nicer driving some vehicles with it. Expo can be used as a crutch for learners, and a preference for experienced skilled flyers. I know some very skilled rc piolts, and they use expo on certain models. I have a little experience flying and i use expo on some of my models and not on others. It depends on the model, and the style i fly them. I have flown a model with the alerons reversed, but i prefer not to!
Heres a video of my F-16 with a little expo dialled in. Im obviously not as skilled as you guys that dont use it.

THE ULTIMATE RC F-16 VIDEO (4 min 11 sec)
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sniper1 View Post
I agree. Claiming only unskilled pilots use expo is pretty narrow minded. If you have power assisted steering on your car, and i dont, doesnt mean im a better driver than you, its just nicer driving some vehicles with it. Expo can be used as a crutch for learners, and a preference for experienced skilled flyers. I know some very skilled rc piolts, and they use expo on certain models. I have a little experience flying and i use expo on some of my models and not on others. It depends on the model, and the style i fly them. I have flown a model with the alerons reversed, but i prefer not to!
Heres a video of my F-16 with a little expo dialled in. Im obviously not as skilled as you guys that dont use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yq5OtV3TiE
Gotta agree. As mainly a sailplane pilot, expo is used in sailplanes to help smooth out turns in thermal duration ships; it help make flat turns possible while working light lift to reduce loss of altitude. Linkage doesn't help much for that purpose. The advent of computerized radios with features like expo revolutionized the sailplane world as much or more than composite materials have. I know and have flown with some of the best sailplane pilots in the world, and they all use expo; I dare anyone to call them inexperienced!

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Old Mar 09, 2011, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sniper1 View Post
I agree. Claiming only unskilled pilots use expo is pretty narrow minded. If you have power assisted steering on your car, and i dont, doesnt mean im a better driver than you, its just nicer driving some vehicles with it. Expo can be used as a crutch for learners, and a preference for experienced skilled flyers. I know some very skilled rc piolts, and they use expo on certain models. I have a little experience flying and i use expo on some of my models and not on others. It depends on the model, and the style i fly them. I have flown a model with the alerons reversed, but i prefer not to!
Heres a video of my F-16 with a little expo dialled in. Im obviously not as skilled as you guys that dont use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yq5OtV3TiE
holy dude, that F-16 is sweet. What power are you using? That thing hauls ass and seems to just leap out of your hand. Coincedently, I have Vertigo by U2 in my "flying" play list of songs lol.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 07:57 PM
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Ok the wording was too left winged I guess.... Yes using expo doesn't mean your are in experienced or lack skills of the average peson. If you also note many of my posts the setup can tune out most needs for expo. When I referenced expo I mean in the context as the pilot related, without it the pilot would likely crash all his models. If this is true either the setup is off or the pilot may have skill limits. Its less often that a model must have expo to gain a mechanical advantage or to make it managable. Since we are talking from this thread about beginners its less likely that they would see such need or extremes.

But like the first fly by wire, trim tabs, even cars with various sport suspensions and electronic steering etc, dampening the controls isn't usually the first choice if there isn't a performance advantage. The controls are usually very direct.

Actually put differently, NASA has a number of FBW aircraft that can be programmed to have the flight characteristics of other aircraft. So you could program a f-16 to fly like a B52 bomber. But why would one do that with a nimble F-16. The same happens with various models. A 3D pilot isn't going to win a competition if he has his expo cranked. You can program out what a model is capable of if its dampened to much. In that sense its not a preference thing if you are seeking to get the model to perform optimally.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Ok the wording was too left winged I guess.... Yes using expo doesn't mean your are in experienced or lack skills of the average peson. If you also note many of my posts the setup can tune out most needs for expo. When I referenced expo I mean in the context as the pilot related, without it the pilot would likely crash all his models. If this is true either the setup is off or the pilot may have skill limits. Its less often that a model must have expo to gain a mechanical advantage or to make it managable. Since we are talking from this thread about beginners its less likely that they would see such need or extremes.

But like the first fly by wire, trim tabs, even cars with various sport suspensions and electronic steering etc, dampening the controls isn't usually the first choice if there isn't a performance advantage. The controls are usually very direct.

Actually put differently, NASA has a number of FBW aircraft that can be programmed to have the flight characteristics of other aircraft. So you could program a f-16 to fly like a B52 bomber. But why would one do that with a nimble F-16. The same happens with various models. A 3D pilot isn't going to win a competition if he has his expo cranked. You can program out what a model is capable of if its dampened to much. In that sense its not a preference thing if you are seeking to get the model to perform optimally.
I can also see your point, and expo can lead an inexperienced pilot to scrimp on set up. Back in the 70's there was no tx programming of any kind, all adjustments had to be made with the linkage, and doing thorough set up work was vital. I even remember when servo reversing was the next "big thing" in radio control, and 3 or 4 channel radios were the norm; 6 channels were expensive and exotic. Your point of doing a good set up is quite valid, and builders should make that a priority.

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Old Mar 09, 2011, 09:17 PM
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So, why don't we just use 70's equipment then? Little EDF's weren't around before expo either. I don't program any DR/EXPO unless I need it. I obviously need it with my Habu and mini F-18. If not, they roll or pitch way too fast for me to keep in control. If I lessen the surface throws, then they are too docile to maneuver.

I bet you "anti-expo-ites" use a typewriter instead of a word processor too? Vinyl or cassette instead of CD? Or is it 8-track? "Get off your arse to change the channel" CRT TV's all the way, man!
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind View Post
So, why don't we just use 70's equipment then? Little EDF's weren't around before expo either. I don't program any DR/EXPO unless I need it. I obviously need it with my Habu and mini F-18. If not, they roll or pitch way too fast for me to keep in control. If I lessen the surface throws, then they are too docile to maneuver.

I bet you "anti-expo-ites" use a typewriter instead of a word processor too? Vinyl or cassette instead of CD? Or is it 8-track? "Get off your arse to change the channel" CRT TV's all the way, man!
Looks like I've created quite a fuss with my original comment

BTW - I use a word processor, am in the computer industry designing next generation computing devices, listen to music on my iPhone, and have a 60" edge-lit LCD TV
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 09:37 PM
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I've got a Royal on the desk, and a Dell on my lap; I'm so conflicted!
The point I think is that a good set up can reduce or sometimes eliminate the need for expo, and that some builders make up for sloppy set up by using expo; kind of using a broad brush there, but at least that's my preferred take on the subject....I do as good a set up as I can, then use expo if it's needed, and since I have unruly thumbs, (dumb?), I usually need it! (I've been in RC for a loooonggg time...but would never admit to being an experienced, or even a good pilot; I carry hard hats for spectators...just in case!).

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