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Old Jan 28, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by firehawkzach View Post
Excellent response snafu!! I agree with all your points as I was about to buy the BH F-16 for 339 RTF before I did some research. Thankfully after three weeks of deliberation I chose the F-18 from hobby lobby. Even this plane taught me lessons about trusting stock servos but ultimately I am very happy with my purchase. The quality of the radio is extremely important and this was an important factor within my budget as I knew my futaba 6 channel was not enough radio.

The inexperienced modeler will continue to get sucked in to the deceptive business practices of BH and it is their fault for impulsively buying without doing a little homework(no offense to anyone). Hopefully these people will find help in the right place and not abandon the hobby.

Here is a quick pic of my F-18 beauty
WOW! She's beautiful! Very sexy too I might add. Just don't tell my wife I said that.

In regards to BH and the purchases by the inexperianced, they come across as the advocate for those entering the hobby. A lot don't know where to look. I sure didn't. But it really wouldn't suprise me to see stats showing they do more harm to the hobby than good. Sure they have great looking planes. But after getting sucked in, blowing the money on what ultimately turns into a garbage bag full of foam parts, is very discouraging. Especially when that bag full of foam was purchased under the 'great for beginners' banner, or even the '100% satisfaction gaurantee'. I've gone through HL several times and they have ALLWAYS taken care of me as a customer. I bought a JAS-39, and out of the box had one of the main gear wires fracture. I called, they requested a pic, and within a few hours, they had a tracking number for me with a new set of landing gear. BH, took my money and were done with me. It didn't matter what feel off the plane. Bad servos, severely underpowered motors, they got paid, their role was over. They don't even encourage you to bench test parts. Their support will tell you basically they expect you to put the plane together, charge the batt, range test, and fly. If you so much as run up the engine(s) on a bench test, they claim you're gonna kill it and won't cover a fried anything. Something smells funny.

In many cases, it isn't pete's fault that he's selling and endorsing products with lousy components. But what I do fault them for is not standing behind the product AND making claims that neither the company nor the plane are capable of keeping. Again, showing the product under the best circumstances, in the hands of a skilled pilot, claiming it is for an absolute beginner. And as far as the 100% satisfaction gaurantee, that should be a red flag as well. But I was suckered, as I am sure many others were too. But my desperate love for anything that flies overcame my frustration and dissapointment. Others may not share my determination, and would be discouraged from events like these. My friend won't touch these again. He bought an a-10, brushed from pete. The thing didn't even have enough power to get airborne. I watch the vids and to this day have no idea how pete managed to get that thing in the air. But for my buddy to drop $150 on that thing and not get it in the air after a 300'+ run up at full power, he was done. And I didn't blame him. He still gives me a hard time for trying to get him into this. I still have mine as we each bought one at the same time. Mine's still on the wall, collecting dust, and waiting for a complete power transplant.

But to me, vendors like Pete are both good and bad. For the experianced, he offers some great airframes. For the noobs, he takes full advantage of their ignorance and takes them for all they're worth. I only wish I would have stumbled onto RC Groups BEFORE I went out and bought. I could have saved myself some money and purchased the right planes as I learned. To the novice, they should stay as far away from BH as possible, as BH will only get them introuble.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 06:43 PM
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Parkzone/HH pull the servo trick as well. The will use the nice Metal Gear servo's for the elev and rudder, the ones you can see when you open the canopy, but the cheapies in the wings where tape cover them. At least they will replace them if they strip, but what a pain having to wait and get them shipped, and who know what damage you could cause when it falls out of the air.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 03:08 AM
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Max throttle I agree with and understand your entire statement. As I said before no offense to anyone. I just think that it sucks when we as modelers gain new friends into the hobby because they were in awe of a cool looking jet, and all it does is waste their time and money. Usually this will discourage them from buying another plane and trying again, and thats a shame.

I grew up wrecking ultra-sticks and trainers and it sucked ass. Now that I'm a little older, have a pilot's license and understand aerodynamics better I have been successful at flying R/C. The learning curve is very tough and its people like us who can help keep others into the hobby. I think out of all my friends that I have not met at the flying field or Embry-Riddle, I have only one who even cares about aviation. This hobby requires passion and determination to keep it going, so having a reputable airplane is very important.

It is awesome that we have this tremendous resource of RC groups to exchange information and help each other not waste money and precious time.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 09:36 AM
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Since this thread coaches Newbies NOOBs new....
I Agree and understand your comments. Especially buy the best radio you can afford. I've said this many times. In fact I now say get a RTF if you are entering the hobby, learn to fly, and then if you know you are interested get nothing less than a good 9 channel radio (e.g. Hitec Aurora 9) just purely on getting the most for mone invested. Other than your standard 4 channel models, most 7 channel setups are really 9 channel setups and need good mixing.

Both your comments has BH in a negative light which may have some thinking they can be safer with other RTF vendors as if there is a distinction in what they equip the models with.
Service BH maybe horrible but as commented praying on ingnorance....this thread generally is saying don't walk into this ignorant.

It doesn't matter which vendor, the models all have issues to look out for. The people who put them together probably don't know the difference of how their build errors effects the model.
RCG as you said; read over the threads on the model of interest before running out and purchasing what is pretty to the eyes or at least b4 you fly.

All of them have servo issues and the cheap fan units often need to be rebalanced, and are generally prone to detonation because they are cheap and fragile.
Know what makes a good drive train, Battery, ESC, BEC, Motor, EDF, TWR, Efflux, Thrust, Ducting, FSA etc and don't just be satisfied with the answer from,"what are you using", unless the answer actually makes sense.

Some may have started flying 1 or 2 prop models but still know little about aircraft setup. Several Jet guys have several models but still set things up nose heavy, setup jet linkages like a 3D model and listen to conversations over latency but use crap servos to make latency a least concern.

You guys are definitly right about a vendor offering better service, but take the vendor out of the equation where possible and know how to set up your model. The issues happen for any of the manufacturers. You just need to detect and deal before you fly.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 04:08 PM
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hey guys im not trying to stir just offer some insperation for others trying to make the jump. i flew my pz habu first time on sunday and it was awsome. but i had only flown a champ a few times and my super cub with a park 480 and alierons for one flight. i maiden my habu in 10-15mph wind (with a dx5e) so i landed within a miniute and flew again when it calmed down. while i accept that ive only flown it twice and i may be lucky i honestly didnt find it massivly hard or fast. but perhaps its because i fly my cub in a small area (<<new training techneque)

i just thought id tell people looking to buy an edf that the hype is alot worse then it acctually is. but again i may have just got lucky...
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 05:39 PM
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^^^^^^^^^I totally agree to that last line, as long as you've got some flight experience. with no experience, I doubt you'de have a hope in hell of success.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 06:23 PM
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I flew PZ electric prop planes for about 5 months before getting the Meteor, and it was really no big deal. I spent a lot of time with the Habu on the sim and knew how to fly an EDF and what to expect.

Now I'm already looking to get more speed out of the Meteor
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
^^^^^^^^^I totally agree to that last line, as long as you've got some flight experience. with no experience, I doubt you'de have a hope in hell of success.
I remember a thread not to long ago wear a chap who was into RC cars bought a 70mm F-16 and was asking the board why one wing flap went up and the other went down and how to fix it.
Almost everyone was asking for a maiden flight video.

Sounds cruel but many gave good advice that went ignored.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 08:42 PM
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I don't remember that at all. hahahahahahaha
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 09:14 PM
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It worked for the Barefoot bandit. He read a number of books, did online flight training and then stole a few FS to get away a few times.
He crashed most of his landings but survived.

..... It worked for him so that's how we all should do it is what you're saying. Learning to fly is just hype.....

Some learn quickly some are naturals. But the greater majority don't get it the first few tries.

There's a price for over confidence without experience. I've watched several, who've been flying for sometime, struggle with the simplest of approaches, cross winds, stalls. Etc.
So this thread obviously is saying for all to go for it; just not in ignorance. Know thy self.

There is no shame in drawing from the experience of others if for nothing else than to confirm that you're doing it right, how to deal with difficult situations better and to learn it all quicker.

Unless you're as erogant as the Barefoot bandit.... Who eventually was caught.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 04:40 AM
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Howdy folks. I'm getting ready to take my first plunge into the foam EDF jet world. Flown for years, helis, planes, ornithopters..never these however.
I'm busy scouring the net for anything RTF or near RTF that has a 50mm or smaller fan. Found a few that look promising. No smoke or ejecting pilots *wink*

One of the major pieces of advice here is to not use the RTF Tx/Rx but instead get "real" ones. What do you all recommend? I want to spend the least amount of money possible on a tx/rx combo but still be improved over the RTF stuff. What is wrong with the RTF stuff anyway? Is the range greatly exaggerated or something?

Thank You.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 10:30 AM
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RTF stuff is typically cheap equipment, and as they say "you get what you pay for". 50% of the time RTF stuff utterly sucks, either you can't bind it, or the radio just plain doesn't work. Since you say you've flown for years, do you have a multi-model capable transmitter? Otherwise RTF transmitters might be better if you don't have any multi-model, or 2.4Ghz radios as then you don't have to buy another "fancy" radio.

If you look, or are looking, at the JPower 50mm EDFs (most 50mm EDF jets you see on banana hobby or nitroplanes are these), they fly great. There are two forums here about them and they get upgraded to very high power systems as well. The only negative matter is that some come with landing gear and some don't, it's not the plane, the kit, the distributor, it's really just random if you get landing gear. For a starter you probably want landing gear since tosses can be a gamble, especially if your new to EDFs.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 11:18 AM
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As far as radio get the best you can afford is good advice.
Also figure out where you want to go in terms of future receivers/signal type.
If you are a Spektrum man, get at least a DX5e and spend some time setting up your control surfaces properly with the right amount of throw. If you can afford better (DX6i+) you'll have a computer radio with programmable inputs and model memory. Much better.
If you can afford a 9 channel radio, get that as it will save you systematically buying new TXs as you outgrow them.
Even a cheap DX5e is better than a RTF transmitter, the DX5e is actually very precise just like the computer radios (I got originally with a PKZ F4U). In the twitchy world of Ultra Micros, the difference between a DX5e and a RTF TX is night and day. RTF transmitters IME have a bit of dead spot often in the middle, which is critical to controlling your plane smoothly.
Admittedly I haven't had a EDF RTF TX (and never will), but I have with other planes including one from NitroPlanes with my big Cessna. It was crap too. The Cessna is still flying but tought me all the dangers of mail order RTF. I learned to systematically buy all the electronics and install over. It was a PITA. So was repairing the firewall thanks to failed servos in flight (after maiden flight).
I don't think it's the range issue with the RTFs, it's the general imprecise control with the TXs, and failure rate of the RXs (which will usually kill your plane).

RTF means Ready-To-Fail. Nothing else, unless it's by Horizon Hobby and even those have minor issues and cost as much as building one from a kit with selected good components (but convenient). RTF goes for the servos, motor, ESC, RX and transmitter. All RTF.
Buyer beware.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 01:07 PM
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If you have experience IMO a RTF is not for you unless you think of it as a disposable venture. The first time learning experience can be approached as disposable but since you are already in the game why waist money on something that you can't build on.

And while I'll use anyones radio, there is a recent shift for Spektrum/JR to DSMX that admits the short comings of DSM2. So if JR/Spektrum try to get it in DSMX or wait as people try to dump their old DSM2 if they do, and have it upgraded to DSMX. Only certain radios can be updated so check that list also.

Any reason you can't use the TX you have? Are you also just jumping into 2.4 for the first time.

Get a good radio with as many features and channels that you can find. The A9 is a standard to watch, value for features, but the competition is JR and Futaba are moving to keep the market. You waist $100-$200 buying a just enough radio till you need more in which case the just enough radio becomes a useless investment. So just spend the same money on what you see yourself actually flying. Thus most jets need 7 to 9 channels. Some can be configured to use less but this also reduces flight controls in doing so. Thus the A9, DX8, 9503 etc. It meets the general needs of where most pilots finally settle into. These cost $400-$500. Better to pay $500 than $700 getting the cheaper radio and then go out and actually get what you are going to use.

RTF equipment is hit and miss. Picture yourself going to the HobbyKing and picked the cheapest of everything, literally everything, you are bound to expect an issue or two or three... . But you can often deal with these issues before you fly. It is a part of the learning curve of RTF since you should have an ability to check any equipment and not rely on the assumption that spending more money must make it good. I've had very expensive reliable stuff fail. Just not as often and usually because of something I overlooked.

The only way to change cheap RTF offerings is look for a better RTF with clearly better stuff. Since you can fly, consider a BNF (bind and fly) Habu.
Or even better, build an ARF PNP and swap out what looks questionable.

If you have a love for a particular frame, get a affordable foam frame and fill it with quality stuff. Even if you crash, most of it usually survives if you have some flight experience.
If I were you, I would pursue the last option. If you were a pilot and really want to fly an SU37 you don't go out and by a Cessna. You'ld likely settle for a Hawk or T-39. The same is true for models. Only certain model jet types are hard to fly. Why not see if you can go straight to what you are interested in since you already have some experience.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 01:49 PM
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The habu looks awesome. I wish I could get over the fact it's a sport plane. For that I'm waiting for a ParkZone BNF F-XX of some kind. Looked hard at the E-flite F-16 and F-15, but for the money they're pretty outdated and not that great.
I seriously doubt I'll have another civilian or fictional RC airplane either. Or anything at all not military from WWII or later. Just way I feel, want to fly my favourite planes/jets and nothing else. Scale features that make the model not as desirable in characteristics (be it flying or ground) actually excite me if it's true for the FS. Probably have spent way way way to much time watching airplane documentaries over the last 2 years.
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