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Old Sep 09, 2010, 03:48 PM
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Lyle, WA
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ObamaCare Already Causing Insurance Prices to Rise

As it was noted in Massachusetts and everywhere else this mandate driven cluster has been tried, all it does is the opposite of everything claimed for it.

Repeal.


Quote:
Only the severely cognitively challenged could have failed to realize that ObamaCare would drive up the cost of medical insurance. But just to get it on the record:

Quote:
Health insurers say they plan to raise premiums for some Americans as a direct result of the health overhaul in coming weeks, complicating Democrats' efforts to trumpet their signature achievement before the midterm elections.

Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the law, according to filings with state regulators.

These and other insurers say Congress's landmark refashioning of U.S. health coverage, which passed in March after a brutal fight, is causing them to pass on more costs to consumers than Democrats predicted.
In equally surprising news, Thursday came right after Wednesday this morning.

Quote:
Many carriers also are seeking additional rate increases that they say they need to cover rising medical costs. As a result, some consumers could face total premium increases of more than 20%.
The response from the statist thugs imposing ObamaCare was equally predictable:

The White House says insurers are using the law as an excuse to raise rates and predicts that state regulators will block some of the large increases.

Here's an idea: why don't our rulers demand that insurers provide full coverage for everyone for free? The concept should make sense to socialists who have never grasped that money can't keep going out faster than it comes in forever.
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 04:04 PM
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College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Health care costs have risen, despite the economic conditions, ever since I can remember. This is just another excuse for them to jack up premiums. They would do it even if the health care bill hadn't passed. But then we wouldn't have you harping about it, either. Well, you probably would just find some other excuse to blame Obama, anyways.

The vast majority of insurance systems are based upon socialism. Unless it's some type of medical expense account, or the like, you're partaking in socialism when you take out insurance. You know, robbing from Peter to pay Paul. That's how it works. When it's your turn, you just hope to be covered. At least the health care bill achieves that goal in some ways. When companies are doing the rationing, you're competing with your life against their profit margin.
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 04:20 PM
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Lyle, WA
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In *capitalism*, cooperation and patronage is not mandated by State order.

In *socialism*, it is.

In the marketplace, insurance is not based on 'socialism'.

When the State does the rationing, I'm competing against the lust for power and influence by those who hold a monopoly on legal violence against innocents.

Playing word games like you tried may well convince you what you back is OK, because that's all it's going to do. Using words where they do not belong won't convince anyone else.

Do you actually expect us to believe that mandate after mandate after mandate, forcing companies to pay for things the left specifically complained they didn't pay for, will not cost them more money?

Since when did going from not paying for something some complained about them not paying for, to forcing them to pay for these things, with full intent, by law, come to mean LOWER costs? On what planet, exactly, does adding spending equal costing less?

The raw idiocy displayed by the radical left on these matters is astounding. When you make someone pay for something they weren't paying for, their costs are now more because you made them pay for the additional things.

Forcing them to pay, via statute, was the entire point of including those mandates. Now they're using the cost of the mandates as 'an excuse'? Since when is a perfectly valid reason...an 'excuse'?
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 09:44 PM
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OK, now I understand why my dental care plan went from free to $11 a month premium. Clearly, it is Obama's fault.
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
The vast majority of insurance systems are based upon socialism.
No... its based on spreading financial cost/risk... and making a profit for providing coverage.
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 09:50 PM
Watts is life...
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Originally Posted by Jim Thomerson View Post
OK, now I understand why my dental care plan went from free to $11 a month premium. Clearly, it is Obama's fault.
Apples? compared to life issues?

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Old Sep 09, 2010, 10:48 PM
Fly Runaway Fans
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jan 2009
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Oh. Rates weren't going up before? Corporations cut and dropped coverage over the last 10 years just to be mean, not because prices were through the ceiling? I'm SOOO behind the curve on these things.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 12:11 AM
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Lyle, WA
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What is the issue here?

If they are *required by law* to cover more things and spend money they did not before, their spending on what they didn't spend on before goes down?
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 12:21 AM
Fly Runaway Fans
United States, TX, Fort Worth
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Dear MG, please be aware that roughly a decade ago the insurance industry made bad investments for which they compensated by raising rates astronomically. Insurance is by no means a 'service @ price' industry. It's a cross between a ponzi scheme and a lottery.

The industry as it stands today lobbied itself into existence. Were it not for lobbying, it would be illegal. Oh, and the lobbying was bought and is sustained bipartisanly. So you can't solve it by throwing partisan spitballs.

If you're going to try to analyze these things, at least become familiar with the parameters.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 02:34 AM
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College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by rcjetpilot View Post
No... its based on spreading financial cost/risk... and making a profit for providing coverage.
You've just described socialism. Capitalism only spreads the benefits proportionally to investors. Socialism spreads benefits to anyone who needs them, not based upon individual investment.

Where does the money claims are paid with come from? Profit? Hardly. Investment. Nope. The money comes from Peter and goes to pay Paul. Profit, and investments are made with Peter's premium.

Spreading the risk, and settings coverage limits, is where the profit comes from, as well as investments made with the money not paid to Paul.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 02:44 AM
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College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
In *capitalism*, cooperation and patronage is not mandated by State order.

In *socialism*, it is.

In the marketplace, insurance is not based on 'socialism'.
Wrong. Just about any insurance you sign up for operates on the basis of taking premiums from one individual, and paying it out to another individual as a claim. The insurance industry surely presents a market. A choice of insurers to choose form. But the act of taking money from one individual as a premium and paying it out to another as a claim is not a market.

Quote:
When the State does the rationing, I'm competing against the lust for power and influence by those who hold a monopoly on legal violence against innocents.

Playing word games like you tried may well convince you what you back is OK, because that's all it's going to do. Using words where they do not belong won't convince anyone else.
No word games being played. By me. The concept is clear for anyone with objectivity to see. Insurance is socialism for profit.

Quote:
Do you actually expect us to believe that mandate after mandate after mandate, forcing companies to pay for things the left specifically complained they didn't pay for, will not cost them more money?

Since when did going from not paying for something some complained about them not paying for, to forcing them to pay for these things, with full intent, by law, come to mean LOWER costs? On what planet, exactly, does adding spending equal costing less?

The raw idiocy displayed by the radical left on these matters is astounding. When you make someone pay for something they weren't paying for, their costs are now more because you made them pay for the additional things.

Forcing them to pay, via statute, was the entire point of including those mandates. Now they're using the cost of the mandates as 'an excuse'? Since when is a perfectly valid reason...an 'excuse'?

What is being forced is the purchase of a basic insurance plan in the understanding that everyone who will get sick in the future has to start making payments on that treatment before they get sick, because paying for it afterwards doesn't allow for nifty things like operating rooms and surgeons to be in place when you need the operation. Requiring the purchase of health insurance is fundamentally the same as requiring automobile insurance. You might not need it, ever. But if you might place a huge financial burden on others, and everyone shares that possibility in their life, you need to pay your way all the time. Not just when you actually palce that burden on someone.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 05:31 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Thomerson View Post
OK, now I understand why my dental care plan went from free to $11 a month premium. Clearly, it is Obama's fault.
Hey son, that dental plan was NEVER "free".

It's just that other people paid your way and you got to spend other people's money on your teeth.
Must really suck to have to spend a pittance of your own money for your own care now, eh.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 05:51 AM
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Joined May 2010
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Just a quick question, or 2.
If you ran a company, would you be in it for the profit?
Is health care a right of a privilege?
mind you, Health care is a service! If you preform a service like Cut kits for a Balsa Plane manufacture would you do it for free? if you say yes ill call BS. insurance Co. Gamble. they take a major risk that you don't get sick. if you do they lose money. so tell me why you complain at the end of your contract with them, ( most open enrollment ) if prices go up you complain they want more money now? please explain to me again, Do you work for your employer for free?
Now if a truly free Capitalist system were in place how Ins. prices would not go down ? you are looking at a monitor that 5 years ago cost almost double what it does now. That is free capitalism at work. less regs less gov interference more choices = less cost.Btw show me 1thing Gov runs that costs less than they quote!
still waiting
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 06:00 AM
LcJ
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United States, LA, Monroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Health care costs have risen, despite the economic conditions, ever since I can remember. This is just another excuse for them to jack up premiums. They would do it even if the health care bill hadn't passed. But then we wouldn't have you harping about it, either. Well, you probably would just find some other excuse to blame Obama, anyways.

The vast majority of insurance systems are based upon socialism. Unless it's some type of medical expense account, or the like, you're partaking in socialism when you take out insurance. You know, robbing from Peter to pay Paul. That's how it works. When it's your turn, you just hope to be covered. At least the health care bill achieves that goal in some ways. When companies are doing the rationing, you're competing with your life against their profit margin.
But the freedom of choice has been remeoved. It is one thing to choose to participate in a shared loss plan. It is another to have someone else make you do it. That is a violation of your rights as a US Citizen.
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by LcJ View Post
But the freedom of choice has been remeoved. It is one thing to choose to participate in a shared loss plan. It is another to have someone else make you do it. That is a violation of your rights as a US Citizen.
i agree it has been removed,but only if you let it. My plan is to drop and not accept it. somehow.
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