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Old Sep 08, 2010, 09:59 PM
Fly Cheap. Fly Hard. Fly Daily
USA, UT, Riverton
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Slope combat, anyone?

OK, I know we have the whole un-civil war Fall 2010 thing coming up soon on the flatlands. But after watching the Soar Utah folks having fun this weekend, I couldn't help but wonder: why don't we do more slope combat here at the Point of the Mountain? Is it just because it's a little less convenient than local parks? Because recovery is more difficult? Because the impacts are lower-impact?

Or could it just be that there's no zealot recruiting people to fly combat with him or her at the slope?

I maidened a new Zagi out at the Point today because I really felt like, since I live so close to the slope now, I really ought to have something to fly there that is designed to fly without a motor The maiden was fine, if you call "hovering in place without moving around very much because the wind speed exceeded the VNE of the aircraft" "fine". While there, I talked to three of the slope rats who were here for Soar Utah, and all of them volunteered that if the wind wasn't howling so hard, they'd pull out their wings and try to knock me out of the sky as an introduction to sloping.

So why don't we do more combat on the slope? Or do we do plenty, and I just don't know about it?
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 11:44 PM
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Darth_Elevator's Avatar
The Beautiful Mountains of Utah
Joined Oct 2006
6,227 Posts
Jeff and I fly slope combat at Ensign Peak all the time. I don't get down to PoM very often, but we had 6 or so flying combat there once. We've also done combat at Francis Peak. We mostly slope with our powered combat wings because we're too chicken to remove the motors, but I think I like slope combat better than flatland combat. I love it when you get two or three wings riding the same wind and slowly close the gap. And you're right about the long recovery time. NEVER get that on the flatland.

Even though we don't get down to PoM very often because of the distance, I'll keep an eye on this thread if you'll post any combat gatherings that are coming up. Most of the time, we stop at PoM either on the way to the Civil War or afterward. If wind is good this year, I'm sure some of us will be stopping.

Check out the huge recovery times in this Francis Peak vid:
Combat at Francis Peak (1 min 41 sec)


PoM combat in 37 mph winds:
POM Sept 5, 2009 (2 min 34 sec)


Okay, this one isn't combat with planes. It's combat with the wind and the ground. We couldn't pass up the chance to fly in 55 mph winds up at Ensign. Why fly in wind that high? Just to say we've done it. Oh, yeah, and also to shoot some video.
55 mph winds: Ensign Peak (1 min 40 sec)
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 12:18 AM
Fly Cheap. Fly Hard. Fly Daily
USA, UT, Riverton
Joined Aug 2005
381 Posts
OK, so what's up with the "megalula"? Is it a side-arm-launch glider like the Lula, or is it only for the slope, really? Does it thermal, or is it for combat?
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 12:40 AM
Sink? Circling now to confirm.
JONBOYLEMON's Avatar
United States, UT, American Fork
Joined May 2002
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The main problem w/ the slope "anything" is that sometimes you cant fly. Show up at the farm and fly, end of story.
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 12:57 AM
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Darth_Elevator's Avatar
The Beautiful Mountains of Utah
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Ken built the Megalula with thermal and light slope performance in mind, like the Alula. But I the wing loading ended up too high, so I think this particular prototype will only be used for sloping. On the other hand, I think Will built the Alula-Weasel hybrid with sloping in mind.
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 07:16 AM
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6Killer's Avatar
USA, UT, Alpine
Joined Jul 2010
710 Posts
redgiki
I have a Zagi, but I am also a new pilot; starting over again after 20 years. I live in Alpine and I have been to the POM a few times to maiden it but the conditions were too strong from my abilities. Also when I saw the para-gliders I didn’t know if I could fly there. I ended up hiking up behind Alpine and hand tossing it. It is a good thing too. I had some problems I didn’t realize I had and had I flown at POM it would have been very disappointing.

I have a 2m Spirit from when I used to fly 20 years ago and did have a good day with the help of a friend at POM using the 2m before my Zagi was finished.

I also have a DAW Swiezer 1-26 (trainer) that I have not maidened yet.
http://www.skykingrcproducts.com/rcp..._1-26_HLG.html

I love sloping, thermaling, and I am just learning to fly a motorized wing. I wouldn’t be much excitement for you except to be a target. I have no problem with that, except after one hit I would probably be down at the bottom of the slope.

You wrote “the wind speed exceeded the VNE of the aircraft” VNE is not in the Futaba Glossary of terms.

Jim
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Old Sep 09, 2010, 07:36 AM
Fly Cheap. Fly Hard. Fly Daily
USA, UT, Riverton
Joined Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6Killer View Post
You wrote “the wind speed exceeded the VNE of the aircraft” VNE is not in the Futaba Glossary of terms.
Sorry, VNE stands for "Velocity Never Exceed", a term used in full-scale airplanes. In the case of the Zagi THL, it's printed right on the box: "for light slope lift up to 25 miles per hour". The anemometer showed 32MPH at the ridge, and truly that's quite a gale!

The problem I've found with the Point is that if it's at all windy in the valley, it's a freakin' hurricane up there. The only days I think of sloping are the days that it's too windy to fly my power stuff in the valley, which means I mostly get up there to find it's blowing incredibly hard.

This Saturday if the wind is below 10MPH I'm doing Kearns field with the IMSF if you'd like to join us. They're bringing out the hi-start and winch to just enjoy thermaling from 9AM to noon. Want to join us?
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Old Sep 10, 2010, 05:07 AM
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6Killer's Avatar
USA, UT, Alpine
Joined Jul 2010
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Redgiki
Thanks for the invitation. I would love to, but Saturday mornings is only one of the two days I get a little training on my Assassin. I will probably be at the Sod Farm. Every time I fly alone I practically mutilate my Assassin. Thanks though. I look forward to flying with you guys sometime.

By the way, I have two Zagis. One is built and the other I have just started on. I am going to put a motor on the unfinished one. Just watching Greg’s videos, which are great, just reinforces my notion to put a motor on the second Zagi even for sloping. I like the way you use it to get out of trouble.

I think Greg’s videos were so fun. I love the music on the Combat at Francis Peak video. It fit the action soo well. That is a video I can watch several times and not get tired of.

6
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 11:11 AM
Fly Cheap. Fly Hard. Fly Daily
USA, UT, Riverton
Joined Aug 2005
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Heh, I just read today about people ballasting combat planes and doing combat while DYNAMIC SOARING the back-side of the hill!

Holy carp! I hadn't even ever thought about that. Intense, fast, in-your-face slope combat on the dark side at 100MPH... Must try that sometime...
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 11:50 AM
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Darth_Elevator's Avatar
The Beautiful Mountains of Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6Killer View Post
I think Greg’s videos were so fun. I love the music on the Combat at Francis Peak video. It fit the action soo well. That is a video I can watch several times and not get tired of.
Yes, Greg did a great filming our Francis Peak combat session. Next time we're heading up to Francis Peak, I can send you a PM if you want.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 01:14 PM
Watch your 6
6Killer's Avatar
USA, UT, Alpine
Joined Jul 2010
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Where is Francis Peak? I would like to try it out.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 02:21 PM
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Darth_Elevator's Avatar
The Beautiful Mountains of Utah
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It's one of the mountain peaks overlooking Davis County. If you've ever been to the Lagoon amusement park, you take that freeway exit, and from there it's about a 45-minute drive up the canyon to the place shown in the video.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 04:09 PM
If It Aint Broke,I'll Break It
Rockin G's Avatar
United States, TX, Lockhart
Joined Dec 2008
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The place above Farminton that looks like 2 golf balls sitting on top of the mountain. Just watch for the idiots coming down. You only meet them on the blind corners.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 04:56 PM
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Darth_Elevator's Avatar
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Yes, the teenage idiots on fourwheelers who for some reason think that only the larger vehicle should slow down when approaching an oncoming vehicle on a narrow road.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 06:33 PM
If It Aint Broke,I'll Break It
Rockin G's Avatar
United States, TX, Lockhart
Joined Dec 2008
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Between the POM and Francis, it is really a toss up for me.

Francis
Pros
1. View is hard to beat
2. Un Crowded slopes
3. Cooler up there.
4. Occasionally above the clouds,
Cons
1. The drive
2. The steps on the side of the lower slope area create turbulence and multiple rotors
3. The bowl by the gate generates phenomenal lift, but very small landing zone, especially since that is the top of the road and we usually attract viewers which clog the landable areas.
4. Again at the bowl, if you happen to get blown over the road, it is a pretty mean hike to get to your plane.
5. Occasionally IN the clouds.

POM South
Pros
1. Though farther to drive, it takes less time for me to get there.
2. Wall of lift that extends way up and out from the lip.
3. As long as it is too windy for the bags, there is plenty of airspace to fly.
4. Wide landing zone.
5. Can check live camera to verify wind before you leave the house

Cons
1. Can be crowded if the wind is light enough for the bags.
2. Temporary delays if I-15 under construction.
3. AMA requirement ( I have mne, but not all do )

POM North. I dont care for it too much, especially if wind is light enough for the bags.
Alot of brush has grown all over the slope and it may be a pain to retrieve a downed plane...not that that would happen.

Any other pros and cons you can think of?
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