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View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in the next Federal election
Liberal/National party coalition 135 57.94%
Labor party 35 15.02%
The Greens 18 7.73%
Independent 17 7.30%
Tonystott 28 12.02%
Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Mar 04, 2011, 10:01 PM
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Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me_wantee View Post
Only goes back to the 1700's though.
Ppl seem to ignore the data from millions of years ago, when between now and then the earth has been much hotter and much colder in a number of cycles then it is now. Sea levels have gone up and down by scores of metres.

As others have said we should focus on adaption to climate change, not wasting effort trying to control it.
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Old Mar 04, 2011, 11:49 PM
Is my CG correct?
discostu956's Avatar
Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
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I guess thats the difference between anthropogenic and natural change. Some people will never accept that something like that can be natural. And in that, they ignore all past changes
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 12:17 AM
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forgive me if I'm mistaken but isn't that guy actually trying to disprove the current trends of "the sky is falling" theory? Or at least remove the politics from it?......if that's possible nowdays.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 01:24 AM
Is my CG correct?
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Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
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It seems to me he is trying to remove any doubt from it, so the "minority" won't doubt "the science", or it was the person writing the article who put that spin on it
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 01:59 AM
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I don't get that from the article

Quote:
Despite the scale of the task, and the fact that world-class scientific organisations have been wrestling with it for decades, Muller is convinced his approach will lead to a better assessment of how much the world is warming. "I've told the team I don't know if global warming is more or less than we hear, but I do believe we can get a more precise number, and we can do it in a way that will cool the arguments over climate change, if nothing else," says Muller. "Science has its weaknesses and it doesn't have a stranglehold on the truth, but it has a way of approaching technical issues that is a closer approximation of truth than any other method we have."

We know the world is warming, I don't think that's the argument here......or is it? It has been since the last ice age. The argument is whether we are causing it, adding to it, or have no bearing on it is what I think he wants to know. Whether he is any better/worse/left/right/ more or less biased than any other person out there is still up in the air for me. Only going back to the 1700's makes it a little limited however........

There seems to be 3 arguments being mixed in with each other. One states the world is warming and modern human life is the cause, another is the world is warming and we have nothing to do with it, and the third who say the earth is not warming at all, hence the first two are moot.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 02:00 AM
RoyalAustralianEasyMoneyE arner
Australia, QLD, Hervey Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gouch View Post
forgive me if I'm mistaken but isn't that guy actually trying to disprove the current trends of "the sky is falling" theory? Or at least remove the politics from it?......if that's possible nowdays.
Any of you blokes remember the Y2K Bug ? Need I say more !! This whole Global Warming "thing" is nothing more than that, a fallacy !!!
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 02:02 AM
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but is it really? read my last point above

btw, Y2K made me good money, it was real for me
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 02:17 AM
RoyalAustralianEasyMoneyE arner
Australia, QLD, Hervey Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gouch View Post
but is it really? read my last point above

btw, Y2K made me good money, it was real for me
Sort of says enough to keep you intrigued Gooch

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a...ers_yet_again/

and Mate good on you for getting some legitimate $$$ out of the Federales, I'd rather see it go to you than ..........................well lets just say there are still people living in their cars as a result of the floods up here in QLD
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 03:38 AM
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Like I said much earlier, whatever the planet does to itself it will deal with, or go extinct. Hot cold, high water/low water.... whatever. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing the guy in the article wantee posted is not a "warmist" or otherwise........yet. Let him post his data before we label him one way or another.

What do I think? As we all know the planet is either in an upward trend or downward trend (long term and short term).....it's what has been happening for eons. But don't think for a minute that I think it's anything but how it is, meaning I do not think it's "our fault".....but with the amount of BS and confusion out there, who can be sure they have the right opinion? You? me? them? Why else do scientists always seem to say "we think" or we predict" They don't even know

Quote:
Originally Posted by gouch
There seems to be 3 arguments being mixed in with each other. One states the world is warming and modern human life is the cause, another is the world is warming and we have nothing to do with it, and the third who say the earth is not warming at all, hence the first two are moot.
So which one are you?

But just to throw a spanner in the works, and a serious Q: Where does all the heat energy go that we are creating by burning fossil fuels?......... I'm not saying we are/aren't warming the planet by doing so, I'm simply asking a question.



but anyway, it's all labours fault
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 03:50 AM
Is my CG correct?
discostu956's Avatar
Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
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Have you heard the latest: Global warming is going to start the next ice age/global cooling very soon!! Its actually a 30-40yr old argument

The earth does radiate some heat back out into space. Its all proportions of energy. The gases in the atmosphere radiate some of the escaping heat back down towards earth. Whether that extra heat energy from burning would radiate back out I'm not sure, I have pondered that point-interesting stuff
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 04:02 AM
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gouch View Post
Q: Where does all the heat energy go that we are creating by burning fossil fuels
A: In a power station It's used to spin the turbines.

If you are talking about the left over heat on the exhaust side coming out of the cooling towers, the steam condenses on it's way up the cooling tower. Any heat left at the top (very little) is quickly cooled as it comes out and mixes with the air.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Any heat left at the top (very little) is quickly cooled as it comes out and mixes with the air.
That's my point. It mixes with air That heat energy remains heat energy until it is changed to another type of energy. It doesn't disappear.

What's the efficiency of a coal burning power station? "I'm glad you asked" Around 33% for a coal burner apparently..........that's a lot of wasted heat energy.

Interesting titbit:

Quote:
Given the energy density of coal which is 24Mj per KG it takes It takes 438 kg (966 lb) of coal to power a 100 W lightbulb for one year. One should also take into account transmission and distribution losses caused by resistance and heating in the power lines, which is in the order of 510%, depending on distance from the power station and other factors.
oh, and given most underground coal mines use electricity powered miners/ shuttle cars/conveyors to get the coal to create the electricity to get it out, it's a lovely ironic, yet so inefficient closed loop system And big power consumption too. 1000V, current draws around 200 amps for a miner when it's cutting, and normally 24/7 of course, at efficiency figures probably only at 60% anyway.

Then we have the secondary effects of making electricity. So you have created the electricity at 33% efficiency. It's cold outside, you turn your heater on, more heat, you want a shower, hot water from cold, clothes wrinkled? iron them, hungry?, on with the oven........and so on. So how much is turned into heat? bloody heaps.


Your average car runs at around 30% efficient, meaning 70% of the fuel you burn is gone in wasted heat......Stick your hand over your exhaust pipe on your car, turn your car heater on, feel how much heat even a small engine pumps out under the bonnet........and so on and so on. There is a lot of wasted heating going on each year, but all that as it is, is it as much as one big burp from a volcano for example ?

And we haven't even discussed the lack of efficiency of HK RC motors yet! All that heat! no wonder it was hot today, I was running my new HK motor!



but it's still labours fault
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 05:44 AM
Not a Doctor
me_wantee's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Aug 2006
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Leave it to a couple of FNQ'ers to fix. The Lutec 1000 is what the world needs now.
http://www.cairns.com.au/article/201...ness-news.html

Just check out the applications from their awesome website.
http://www.lutec.com.au/applications.htm

Tonystott already pre-purchased three, cash up front. They will be delivered soon Tony, honest.
They are waiting for the flux capacitor to come from China.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 06:02 AM
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Lake Macquarie, Aust.
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Even Homer is onto it

The Simpsons - perpetual motion machine & laws of thermodynamics (0 min 20 sec)
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 06:12 AM
Is my CG correct?
discostu956's Avatar
Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
5,096 Posts
I've heard 40% efficiency for a coal power station Gouch, but must have been a pretty efficient one compared to what you put. Thats why I don't get electric cars that plug into the wall, the power generation isn't that efficient in the first place, and then theres the transmission losses you mentioned and the inefficiencies of the cars motor, batteries etc etc. Would surely bring it to the 33% that typical car engine is at best any wouldn't it??
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