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Old Oct 30, 2010, 08:24 AM
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no response from hobbyrc-y

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Originally Posted by Darker4308 View Post
I'm always glad when someone manages to get their money back from these jerks. FYI they never accepted my return even though I went thru the proper whole procedure. I still got my money back. Now said gyro is on its way to become part of a presentation on counterfeiting in WA.

Just so everyone knows this is one the risks of being a seller on ebay. If the buyer wants to scam they can go ahead and do it. Anyone for example who wanted to simply steal from hobbyrc-y could just fill up a shopping cart with stuff, decide they are "unsatisfied" with the product, and then mail back a postcard via registered mail to China. Ebay would side with the buyer and they wouldn't even have to get the items back form the original buyer to get f-ed. It is scary.
File is opened in the resolution center at paypal. Up-To-Date, the seller hasn't seemed to respond to my claim
I have some 14 more days to go before paypal closes the dispute. What is best to do ??
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Old Oct 30, 2010, 11:27 AM
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Paypal has just made a ruling in my favor and says I will get my refund, however, I still won't know if it will be a full refund and it is yet to be seen if I see it at all. This isn't over till I see it all in my account.
They also say that hobbyrc-y will be punished in some way. Other than a slap on the pee-pee, I doubt anything will change.
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Old Oct 30, 2010, 03:26 PM
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If someone slapped me on my "pee-pee" it would change my ways!
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Old Oct 30, 2010, 04:38 PM
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I have all my experience about making claims via the ebay dispute system. That is the way it works in the US. I don't know much about making a claim directly via paypal. Maybe you could PM someone on this thread who is in the same nation as you for advise.
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Old Nov 02, 2010, 09:41 PM
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Hallelujah! ........................ Full refund appeared on my credit card yesterday. Chalk one up in favour of ebay/paypal doing the right thing.
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Old Nov 03, 2010, 01:29 PM
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glad to hear it mate.
I am going to admit something, please don't tell anyone, but between you and I : , I shipped the b*****d a small wood block and got a full refund
So we are collectively causing the seller financial loss I would imagine.
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Old Nov 03, 2010, 02:05 PM
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glad to hear it mate.
I am going to admit something, please don't tell anyone, but between you and i :d: , i shipped the b*****d a small wood block and got a full refund
so we are collectively causing the seller financial loss i would imagine.
priceless! :d
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Old Nov 03, 2010, 05:33 PM
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It costs about 8$ US to send an item from china to the US. It costs us 20$-30$ to send the item back.

Now looking at the GAZ-126 they are selling these things at a cost of $16.38 free shipping. Ebay gets 2.47$ and paypal gets .74$ leaving 13.13$

http://cgi.ebay.com/GAZ-126-Head-Loc...#ht_2978wt_990

This means that each gyro breaks even at unit cost of about 5$. Now there must be a margin on these things, if they aren't being sold for simply liquidation, so lets estimate they cost 2$-5$ a pop. That estimate is probably far too high. It would be wonderful if a Chinese member could confirm a bulk price in the PRC of a GAZ-126.

So they sell an item to a stupid american like me.

This affair costs them total of 10$-15$ American. They have sold several of these items in the region of 50$-70$. This is taxed by ebay and paypal to be about 41.75$ to 59.97$. Factor in 8$ shipping per item we get 33.75$ to 51.97$ in pure profit for one successful scam.

The average settlement with an unhappy buyer costs them 8$ assuming they get the item back and about 10$-15$ if they don't get the item back, or get a fake in the mail.

Anyway, using some accounting math we come to a factor of between 15.39% to 44.44% for the scam break even percentage. The average of which is 29.92%. This average really should be skewed toward though lower value, but it means that in order to the scam to break even about only 30 out of 100 buyers must be fooled. They also know that you can only make claims for about 45 days so so, and their item takes a long time to ship. Note: this calculation estimates the price of the gyro at 5$ and assumes that they are just liquidating GAZ-126 units. If this isn't true and there is a margin then the percentage shifts even more to the left. I would even hazard the overall scam ratio as about 20 out of 100.

Note, that this calculation does not take into account interest that they get for holding money, tax, or bulk sales where more than one item is sold. Many people have bought more than one gyro and then did some other shopping.

The real problem for me is that most of the people I contact can't speak English or just don't respond to ebay emails. I've bleed hobbbyrc-y, but most of the people I am contacting at this point are outside the area of time where they can do anything about the purchase. It also seems like the EU has some very different rules such that returning an item is significantly harder. Some people also don't want to pay the 20$ to send the item back to china. They will still make money off this scam as I only get about 1 in 5 or so emails back with a result saying that they are sending the item back.
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Old Nov 04, 2010, 06:23 PM
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I was given a payment of 5 towards postage, I had to send it with International tracking and I think the final cost was
about 6 so, not too bad, but...a small block of wood is a fair bit lighter, therefore cheaper to post than the jewel case containing the rusty nut



dang Darker, you make my brain bleed with your numbers
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Old Nov 04, 2010, 06:38 PM
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Didn't you get the 5 quid thru ebay as an ebay apology? Also, you have to do an exchange rate calculation. That is about 9.76$. Not too bad I agree. It cost me about 29$ US, but I think I could have paid 21$.
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Old Nov 04, 2010, 07:05 PM
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Just tried to find the notice of the 5, can't see it, I don't think there were any words of remorse from Ebay, it was all very business like:
"please find a Paypal credit of 5 towards the cost of returning the item" or words to that effect.

I think the Chinese really make a killing on those that do not realise they've bought a fake and the apathetic that feel it's too much of a hassle to go through the rigmarole of extracting a refund
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Old Nov 05, 2010, 05:46 PM
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Oh of course they make a killing on this stuff. The real issue is that the standard salary in China is 4k-8k per anum. When you consider that I make about 30k per anum as a grad student ... the problem comes into perspective. I mean in the USA gold farming is not profitable. I don't know how much you guys know about gold farming, but there is an article here.

http://www.chinesegoldfarmers.com/
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2007/...-warcraft.html

You physically cannot keep the lights on gold farming in the USA. However, in China it is an actual business.

Sena is probably moderately wealthy in China.
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinforce View Post
I received 2 of the fakes weeks ago, but haven't tested it yet.
I will wanna ship them back for a full refund.
Thanks Darker for including me in his mailing list, otherwise, i would not have
realized i paid for "rusty nut".

reinforce
Good luck! I was quoted $172.00 by UPS to get a sig. on the return, $ 60 by DHL, I didn't even try FEDEX. USPS was about $25.00 but once it leaves the US they have no control..All you get is the customs # that it left the USA. All the No Good, SOB has to do is claim he never got it. Remember you are dealing with a commie in a commie country. It is a carefully done scam (The GY 401) The return address is in Chinese so you have to get it translated, All part of the plan. eBay says they will refund the purchase price when the item is returned. but you have no way of proving that the thief got it. So I am voting with my feet, I have been on Ebay for about 10 years, but no more. I was told by one of their "customer service" folks to "avoid buying anything from overseas". I told them "I have been screwed for larger sums of money than that by people here in the USA". I have the SOB's address in English if anyone wants it.
The really bad thing is that a year from now the SOB will still be doing the same thing on eBay and eBay will do nothing about it as long as they are making money from him...
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 12:19 PM
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Good luck! I was quoted $172.00 by UPS to get a sig. on the return, $ 60 by DHL, I didn't even try FEDEX. USPS was about $25.00 but once it leaves the US they have no control..All you get is the customs # that it left the USA. All the No Good, SOB has to do is claim he never got it. Remember you are dealing with a commie in a commie country. It is a carefully done scam (The GY 401) The return address is in Chinese so you have to get it translated, All part of the plan. eBay says they will refund the purchase price when the item is returned. but you have no way of proving that the thief got it. So I am voting with my feet, I have been on Ebay for about 10 years, but no more. I was told by one of their "customer service" folks to "avoid buying anything from overseas". I told them "I have been screwed for larger sums of money than that by people here in the USA". I have the SOB's address in English if anyone wants it.
The really bad thing is that a year from now the SOB will still be doing the same thing on eBay and eBay will do nothing about it as long as they are making money from him...

Hey don't worry. My item never got accepted in china either. I actually got it back last week. It didn't mean that ebay didn't pay me. All you have to do is make a big stink about them not accepting the package at an address they gave you. He can't win if he loses the ebay dispute. You can even keep the gyro if you want and send a registered post card.

I don't like what ebay did to me in this case, but I certainly abused and helped people abuse ebay's buyer protection rules. Sena really will give a refund to anyone that applies properly because he doesn't want to be in dispute and lose his west certified account. I mean as far as I can tell his account isn't down.
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 12:37 PM
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It doesn't matter what the seller says about not getting it returned. I had documented proof that the item had reach its destination and accepted, yet the seller still said he hadn't received it. Ebay judged in my favour and gave me all my money back.
For anyone who may still have been conned by this jerk and you are still waiting for your fake item to arrived, all you have to do is to refuse delivery. DO NOT sign for it and tell the postal people you don't accept it and to send it back (or do whatever they want with it). In this case, you NEVER got it. It doesn't matter if the seller gets it back or not, because "not getting it" is one reason for a buyer to make a claim.
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