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Old Aug 26, 2010, 08:12 AM
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ckreef,
Nice Plans!
Are all 8 sheets for the Stinson?
Matt
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 08:41 AM
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I'm really enjoying this thread and the ingenious methods on building. It's like going to school. I hope you proceed with documented tips on finishing.



Tom
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 09:48 PM
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Danville, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D. View Post
ckreef,
Nice Plans!
Are all 8 sheets for the Stinson?
Matt
All 8 sheets are for the Stinson Reliant. They are really kewl sheets. They cover all the various versions of the Reliant with full details including one sheet dedicated to the cabin dashboard layout.

If anybody is interested in a PDF format PM me.
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 12:06 AM
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Tom - I appreciate your comments regarding things you are learning from this thread. I know I always find it useful to follow a build thread as I typically will learn something new. I will be starting the covering process in the not to distant future and will be sure to provide highlights.

I did manage to get all of the flying surfaces framed up today.

This is where the project reaches that 80-90 percent complete stage and the remaining work takes so much effort. Covering and doing the details always seem to take as much if not more effort than the basic structural assembly work.

Paul Bradley
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 12:35 AM
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Not much progress today. I only had time to do the hinging of the flying surfaces. For models of this size I like to use the material that comes from candy bar wrappers. I find it is very robust and flexible. I clean off the printing with acetone and cut strips to make hinges. Thin CA really sticks to the material.

The Stinson rudder is shown here as a matter of illustration. Slots are cut in the 1/16" square balsa framing of the surface. This is done carefully with an eXacto knife. The hinges are then slipped into one side of the surface. The other side, the rudder in this case, is then slipped on to the hinges. When proper alignment is achieved a drop of thin CA is placed on the hinge where it enters the structure (side facing away from the hinge line). The CA not only holds the hinge in place but also re-joins the balsa in the area of the slit returning its strength.

Once the hinges have been glued in place they get trimmed. The extra length is simply there for easy of installation and is not needed once the hinges are glued in place.

The elevator halves were joined using a piece of .025" piano wire bent to a "U" shape. Hinging was done like the rudder.

Paul Bradley
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 01:15 AM
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i cant wait to see this gorgeous bird finished! i had started this kit twice in my life and never finished it... i love the gullwing stinson. such beautiful lines... and comet did a great job with this kit, soo many scale details... i have built several of your repops of the speedy built/ jigtime kits lately... going back to balsa from foam really is a joy... the new pz radio gear and modern electric technology has got me back into the model airplane hobby full throttle! i am even putting ink to paper again and am finishing up a stick and tissue plan of the yak 55m for the pz micro gear. you and your brother's website has inspired me to build again and i want to thank you... i grew up building rubber ff and always dereamed of being able to put rc gear into smaller stuff, now it is easy and relatively inexpensive to go out in the yard and fly!thanks again for sharing your knowledge and designs with us...
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 01:19 PM
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skootertrash74 - I certainly appreciate your kind words. It is especially gratifying to know that Ralph and I have had a small hand in your becoming active agin in the world of model airplanes. There is no question that these are good times for people who like smaller models that can be controlled from the ground.

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Old Aug 28, 2010, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skootertrash74 View Post
i want to thank you... i grew up building rubber ff and always dereamed of being able to put rc gear into smaller stuff, now it is easy and relatively inexpensive to go out in the yard and fly!thanks again for sharing your knowledge and designs with us...
Same here.

Thanks for your effort to make these designs available to us and for your excellent website!

Glenn
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Old Aug 29, 2010, 12:07 AM
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I was able to start the covering process today. I am using ink jet printed tissue to cover this model. The graphics were printed on white tissue sheets in preparation for the covering process. My preferred method for attaching tissue to a model of this type is the use of glue stick. In particular the purple glue stick that turns clear when it dries. I have been using the Elmer’s brand school glue stick with success. They process I use is to apply a coat of glue stick to the framework where tissue will be stuck down, and also to apply a light coat to the tissue where it will contact the frame. I let the glue dry. This makes it much easier to position the tissue. Once the glue has dried I place it on the model. I then use my trim iron, the type used for film covering, to stick down the tissue. Running the iron set to the low temperature position over the tissue causes the previously applied glue stick to re-flow and stick down the tissue. Basically at this point I am doing what I would do with film covering materials. I really like this method as trimmed edges can simply be ironed down. The tissue also is quite smooth where it is ironed down.

My printer uses dye based ink and that is not water proof. Since I want to water shrink the tissue, I have a process to address the water soluble nature of the ink. After covering the model components I apply a coat of clear dope that has been thinned with an equal amount of thinner to the tissue. That is allowed to dry for 12 hours or so. The clear dope seals the ink. Not perfectly, but well enough to allow for water shrinking. The key here is to not have the water puddle on the tissue. As a result I use steam to shrink the doped tissue. This works quite well. The steam will wet the tissue without forming water droplets. For the flying surfaces they are pinned down to my building board while they dry. Once dry a second coat of the 50/50 clear dope is applied. The flying surfaces are allowed to "cure" for 3 or 4 days while pinned down to the building board. This is long enough to accommodate the major shrink period of the dope and the surfaces stay flat over the long haul.

All of the flying surfaces have been covered at this point and are ready to receive the first coat of 50/50 dope in preparation for shrinking the tissue.

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Old Aug 29, 2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
I am using ink jet printed tissue to cover this model. The graphics were printed on white tissue sheets in preparation for the covering process
Paul,

That statement at first glance seems so simple yet the printed covering has me scratching my head. This brings more than one question. "Wait! How did he do that?"
  • How did you get the exact sized templates into the computer to print?
  • How did you feed tisue through a printer?
  • What printer did you use?

This is where I see these magnificent finished tissue coverings and just walk away and hang my head down in shame.

I've always wanted to step up to the next level but if the tissue with the kit isn't already colored I'm sunk. Also stuff like registration numbers and decals really have me wishing I had the skills. Your technique seems so simple. Just print it out... Heck I think I can do that!!!

Tom
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Old Aug 29, 2010, 03:14 PM
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Just curious, would alochol cause the ink to run? Could shrink with that and maybe save a step.

ducatirdr,
Look on Paul and Ralph's website. The tissue printing process is explained there, plus a lot of other good information you might find useful.
www.parmodels.com

Glenn
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Old Aug 29, 2010, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
ducatirdr,
Look on Paul and Ralph's website.
Thanks Glenn. Exactly what I needed.

-Tom
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 12:09 AM
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ducatirdr - I see that Glenn pointed you to my web site. One question it does not answer is your first "How did you get the exact sized templates into the computer to print?". For the models that I make up printed tissue I have re-drawn the plan using CAD tools. I do that to give me a plan to build from and it also makes it easier to get the tissue layouts properly sized. With the CAD plan in the background I am able to draw all the graphics over the plan so I can get things just right. Well at least close enough to just right. Teaching myself CAD and the use of a very good graphics program, CorelDraw, have been very good time investments relative to my model airplane building projects.

Glenn - The alcohol we buy over the counter contains a lot of water. As a result it will also make dye based inks run. I tried that early on in my ink jet printed tissue days and made the unhappy discovery.

Speaking of ink jet printed tissue, I had a major set back today with the Stinson project. I am not sure why but the tissue did not seem to want to shrink as it has in the past. The tissue I used came from a batch that I have had no problems with in the past. I really don't know what happened to this set of printed tissue panels. I was very disappointed in the results after several applications of steam.

As a result I decided to ignore my past experience to see if I could get the wrinkles and puckers to pull out. Past experience taught me that the seal coat of 50/50 clear dope protects the ink fairly well, but if allowed to get too wet the ink will indeed run. I decided to carefully brush on some water in the areas of the wrinkles. The results were encouraging but not yet what I wanted to achieve. What is the old saying, if a little is good then more must be better. NOT!

I got carried away and applied way to much water. The very thing I knew not to do. The ink ran and made a total mess of things. The only way to salvage the covering is to strip off what is in place and do it again. Nuts. I will buy a new batch of tissue in the hop that the second time around things will go as they have in the past.

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Old Aug 30, 2010, 06:59 AM
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I thought that would be the case.
We have 90% here at work, but the drug store varitey is only 70%.

That suks that ink ran. Hopefully the ink didn't stain the wood in areas that will be white.
What kind of tissue are you using?

I kind of like the stuff that comes in the Guillows kits. Not the lightest and useless for rubber free flight, but it's pretty strong and suits my small models well. It's much better than gift box tissue.
I'm almost out, and will be needing more soon.
Glenn
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 11:46 PM
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hmm


very interesting indeed!



Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulBrad View Post
Glenn - That method is very good when you have access to the servos. My installation will not have servo access once the tray is in place. Hence the magnet joiners.

PC-49 - I have not looked at the Snap-and-fly models internally. I have only seen them in flight. I am not surprised that magnets are being used for their connections. It is a smiple and very effective way to make and break a connection. I know the sliding tray approach is not new by any means. It just seemed to be a perfect way to handle the equipment access for the Stinson.

With the control linkage make/break connection concept in hand the equipment tray was made up. It is simply a piece of medium hard 1/16” balsa that slides through slots in the cowl nose ring and two guides near the make/break connection. Each set of guide slots are reinforced with 1/64” plywood pieces. The shape of the cut out in the cowl nose ring disk was determined by the geometry of the equipment tray. The tray is held in place with a single pair of ¼” x 1/16” magnets. Again, plenty of hold power but also easy to separate when the time comes. The battery holder was cut from a replacement Blade MCX landing skid assembly. I have to thank my brother Ralph for that slick idea.

The push rods are held in place in the fuselage with balsa guides reinforced with pieces of 1/64” plywood where the push rod passes through the guides. This runs very smooth with little effort required for movement. To allow removal of the equipment tray without pulling the tail surfaces off, a piece of 1/8” dowel was CAed to each push rod behind the forward guide. The distance was just a tad more that the stroke of the receiver brick servos. These stops rest against the forward push rod guide when the equipment tray is pulled forward. The system works surprisingly well.

Weight at this point with the battery in place is 29.2 grams. My current weight projection suggests the final weight will likely be a bit above 50 grams. I would have liked to have made my goal but the model should still be ok at the higher weight. It has a wing area just under 84 square inches.
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