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Old Jul 04, 2012, 10:14 AM
Experienced R/C Repairman
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Three Oaks, Michigan
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
The manual says to use no expo and that's what I do. It flies great that way.
I was just studying my B3D manual and cannot find any mention of using no expo.

Where is it mentioned and does it affect the AS3X system?
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 11:25 AM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Originally Posted by barnyardflyer View Post
I was just studying my B3D manual and cannot find any mention of using no expo.

Where is it mentioned and does it affect the AS3X system?
As I remember it's more of instructions by omission. It's in the table that shows how to setup rates and expo that every E-flight UM manual has. It has a "0" in the expo column if I remember correctly.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 11:45 AM
Experienced R/C Repairman
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Three Oaks, Michigan
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
As I remember it's more of instructions by omission. It's in the table that shows how to setup rates and expo that every E-flight UM manual has. It has a "0" in the expo column if I remember correctly.
Mine does not show an expo column at all but does not specify not to use expo.

I was just wondering if expo affected the AS3X system.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by barnyardflyer View Post
Mine does not show an expo column at all but does not specify not to use expo.

I was just wondering if expo affected the AS3X system.
Yeah... I think you're right... I remember it being instructions by omission. People do use expo and it seems to not effect AS3X adversely. It just doesn't seem to be necessary or, for some people, even desirable.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 01:04 PM
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I always put in expo for maiden flights but never think about taking it out later.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by marke14 View Post
So ... how many of you guys are using expo with the V2 Beast? Expo always seems to make it harder to handle, to me.

I received my replacement B3D from Horizon yesterday. I nearly killed it yesterday when attempting to maiden it at dusk. Yeah ... fortunately all was well with no damage whatsoever.

Today I flew three batts down at the local park. The Beast is really challenging for me to fly still, I haven't mastered it yet. I definitely got some good practice time in today however, but I need to get the hang of landing it. I had one minor crash landing in that manner, and one low level crash with no real damage either.

This bird is heavier than my Champ/UM T-28, and somehow for me very tough to handle close to the ground. The AS3X is kind of detrimental in this space, and it would be great to be able to toggle the AS3X on and off here. Maybe I just need to get used to it more.

After that I flew three batts through my light-equipped UM T-28 including a very tall climbout and glide down to a perfect landing. The T-28 seems so much more predictable for me vs the B3D, probably because I'm just used to flying it in the wind so much. It was a good flying day.
Why do you feel that the AS3X is detrimental while close to the ground?
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Why do you feel that the AS3X is detrimental while close to the ground?
For me it's the other way around! I have a feeling that Marke simply cut the power totally and is trying to glide in for landing, instead to managing the throttle!
Here's my clue: "and glide down to a perfect landing" Gliding with no power for landing with a T-28 is easy... With the Beast, not so!
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
For me it's the other way around! I have a feeling that Marke simply cut the power totally and is trying to glide in for landing, instead to managing the throttle!
Here's my clue: "and glide down to a perfect landing" Gliding with no power for landing with a T-28 is easy... With the Beast, not so!
+1000, A Beast just falls out of the air if you cut power. I've never been able to do anything but a face-plant with power off.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 06:29 PM
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How does landing the 3D Beast compare with landing the V1 Beast? I have the V1 and find she's a sweet flyer and a pussycat to land...unless I'm flying her in tricky wind conditions. Even then, once I get her safely down into ground effect, no problem. Is the 3D Beast the same? How do they compare?
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by shepflyr View Post
How does landing the 3D Beast compare with landing the V1 Beast? I have the V1 and find she's a sweet flyer and a pussycat to land...unless I'm flying her in tricky wind conditions. Even then, once I get her safely down into ground effect, no problem. Is the 3D Beast the same? How do they compare?
They seem roughly the same for me. The only difference is that the 3D Beast will obviously handle turbulent conditions better just like it does in normal flying conditions.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 07:29 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by marke14 View Post
So ... how many of you guys are using expo with the V2 Beast? Expo always seems to make it harder to handle, to me.

I received my replacement B3D from Horizon yesterday. I nearly killed it yesterday when attempting to maiden it at dusk. Yeah ... fortunately all was well with no damage whatsoever.

Today I flew three batts down at the local park. The Beast is really challenging for me to fly still, I haven't mastered it yet. I definitely got some good practice time in today however, but I need to get the hang of landing it. I had one minor crash landing in that manner, and one low level crash with no real damage either.

This bird is heavier than my Champ/UM T-28, and somehow for me very tough to handle close to the ground. The AS3X is kind of detrimental in this space, and it would be great to be able to toggle the AS3X on and off here. Maybe I just need to get used to it more.

After that I flew three batts through my light-equipped UM T-28 including a very tall climbout and glide down to a perfect landing. The T-28 seems so much more predictable for me vs the B3D, probably because I'm just used to flying it in the wind so much. It was a good flying day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
For me it's the other way around! I have a feeling that Marke simply cut the power totally and is trying to glide in for landing, instead to managing the throttle!
Here's my clue: "and glide down to a perfect landing" Gliding with no power for landing with a T-28 is easy... With the Beast, not so!
I agree with RG, I'll bet that marke is trying to deadstick the beast. The beast has an terrible glide ratio, like the full size plane had, it has very thin wings. The B3D if flown correctly lands easier than any other plane I've ever flown. You MUST use proper flying techniques when landing it though. Use the throttle to manage rate of descent and the elevator to manage speed. If you are too fast, pull back on the elevator a little. Coming down to quickly increase the throttle slightly.

On another note: I figured out how to consistently get KE spins with the B3D! Also the Lomcevak. Although the Lom is not consistent and requires a bit of luck and a PERFECT entry. All of this was done on a normal neutral CG, nothing crazy aft.

instructions for the KE spin:
1. Enter a Vertical climb
2. When you have enough altitude, reduce power so that the climb rate slows to about 3-4mph (basically High alpha full elevator level flight speed, but now in the vertical direction)
3. Give Snap roll inputs, cross controlled rudder-aileron and full up elevator.
--If your speed was right and you didn't move the throttle much you'll get a rather slow snap roll that should completely halt your vertical speed.
4. about 2/3 of the way through the snap roll reverse the elevator and increase the throttle a bit.
--this takes some feel and trial and error.
5. the plane will enter a really violent inverted snap/spin. After about 1-2 rotations it should tip up on edge and start the KE spin.
6. As it enters the KE spin relax the aileron and rudder a bit. I was able to get 4-5 very good, pivoting about the trailing edge of the wings, spins.

Like almost everything else B3D recovery was release controls and almost immediate nose drop and fly out.

-Brian
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 07:52 PM
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
I agree with RG, I'll bet that marke is trying to deadstick the beast. The beast has an terrible glide ratio, like the full size plane had, it has very thin wings. The B3D if flown correctly lands easier than any other plane I've ever flown. You MUST use proper flying techniques when landing it though. Use the throttle to manage rate of descent and the elevator to manage speed. If you are too fast, pull back on the elevator a little. Coming down to quickly increase the throttle slightly.

On another note: I figured out how to consistently get KE spins with the B3D! Also the Lomcevak. Although the Lom is not consistent and requires a bit of luck and a PERFECT entry. All of this was done on a normal neutral CG, nothing crazy aft.

instructions for the KE spin:
1. Enter a Vertical climb
2. When you have enough altitude, reduce power so that the climb rate slows to about 3-4mph (basically High alpha full elevator level flight speed, but now in the vertical direction)
3. Give Snap roll inputs, cross controlled rudder-aileron and full up elevator.
--If your speed was right and you didn't move the throttle much you'll get a rather slow snap roll that should completely halt your vertical speed.
4. about 2/3 of the way through the snap roll reverse the elevator and increase the throttle a bit.
--this takes some feel and trial and error.
5. the plane will enter a really violent inverted snap/spin. After about 1-2 rotations it should tip up on edge and start the KE spin.
6. As it enters the KE spin relax the aileron and rudder a bit. I was able to get 4-5 very good, pivoting about the trailing edge of the wings, spins.

Like almost everything else B3D recovery was release controls and almost immediate nose drop and fly out.

-Brian
Video?? I haven't flown my B3D In forever but when I was flying it I was trying to figure this out and failed. I can do it easily with my larger 3D planes all day long...
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:16 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Video?? I haven't flown my B3D In forever but when I was flying it I was trying to figure this out and failed. I can do it easily with my larger 3D planes all day long...
I don't have a way to film flights. Maybe I'll be lucky one day at my club field and someone will bring a video camera. If so I'll definitely get a video of it.

I can understand where you are coming from too, I was one of those people who said it couldn't be done! I had tried hundreds of times and never got it to go. Finally today I was flying my CC, enjoying some nice relaxing scale slow cub flight. I landed and took the B3D up. I was still in a "cub mode" mindset though so I was just doing some lazy circuits and then decided I'd do a little acro. But I had the throttle way down and after a dive for speed I pulled up into a vertical at about 50% power and did a snap and was going to try and hover, Because I had the power lower than I normally would the snap didn't finish the rotation, I added full down(negative) elevator trying to bring the nose back up. The little beast did a really nice looking though unintentional lomcevak! After that I just repeated what I did at a higher altitude and held the inputs, couldn't get the lomcevak again, but the KE spin developed quite nicely. Try it, just remember use less throttle than usual.

-Brian
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:20 PM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
I don't have a way to film flights. Maybe I'll be lucky one day at my club field and someone will bring a video camera. If so I'll definitely get a video of it.

I can understand where you are coming from too, I was one of those people who said it couldn't be done! I had tried hundreds of times and never got it to go. Finally today I was flying my CC, enjoying some nice relaxing scale slow cub flight. I landed and took the B3D up. I was still in a "cub mode" mindset though so I was just doing some lazy circuits and then decided I'd do a little acro. But I had the throttle way down and after a dive for speed I pulled up into a vertical at about 50% power and did a snap and was going to try and hover, Because I had the power lower than I normally would the snap didn't finish the rotation, I added full down(negative) elevator trying to bring the nose back up. The little beast did a really nice looking though unintentional lomcevak! After that I just repeated what I did at a higher altitude and held the inputs, couldn't get the lomcevak again, but the KE spin developed quite nicely. Try it, just remember use less throttle than usual.

-Brian
Sounds similar to one of my KE Spin entries with my larger planes... Uplime to tumble (left stick lower left, right stick upper right) and then transition to left stick at 9 o'clock and right stick around 11-1 o'clock (some planes require some aileron mgmt and some require none).
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:34 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Sounds similar to one of my KE Spin entries with my larger planes... Uplime to tumble (left stick lower left, right stick upper right) and then transition to left stick at 9 o'clock and right stick around 11-1 o'clock (some planes require some aileron mgmt and some require none).
Yeah my sticks were about:
upline to: left 3 o'clock , right 7:30(full lower left corner)
then left: 2:30 o'clock, right 11(upper left)

I'm using a 3000kv and a 5030, for power reference and was using a MA210 pack that was about 1/8" showing the rest under the cowl on the battery tray.

-Brian
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