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Old Aug 26, 2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt View Post
This reminds me of a joke:


If you think this airplane is just some cheap foam and electronics, think again. It was designed and fine-tuned by WORLD-CHAMPION pilot Quique Somenzini to provide the best flying experience possible. If you think it's just some cheap foam and electronics, let me point you toward some products by Air Hogs. They're foam, they feature electronics, and they fly. It takes the touch of a master to put it all together in a package that truly performs. That's what E-flite is about: Advancing electric flight.
I think the joke is I have already been there done that to a 15" WS biplane with brushless on 4 channel, with a lipo, that was aerobatic, that could ROG, had a clear canopy, and landing gear, and magnetic hatches. when I watched the horizon hobby you tube, they were dumbfounded like they had never seen this before. My view was skewed as I have already been there done that since 2004. I was flying a 15" biplane before we had brushless motors and lipo batteries. my first version flew well, but was so porky on nicad batteries, and so slow on the brushed motor, it was not aerobatic.

Seriously It looks like they devised a new brick. and for me the price is very steep for that.


I love the airframe. But what are they going to charge for parts. $20 for a wing? $20 for a fuselage?


OK OK, my argument does not hold any water. and here is why. this is the Micro RTF forum. these advancements have never been seen before in RTF. Sure I have done these for years, but they are brand new for the RTF world.
so sure I want one. but am unwilling po pay the price. as I will just wait for an aftermarket brick or a used one after someone destroys theirs. I do have to admit the temptation will be hard to resist. as it is such a great looking plane.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 11:50 AM
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I love the bulldog pic
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:52 PM
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Anyone who scoffs about the price is ignoring the fact that RC prices are at an all time low... $69 is too much for 2 servos, a brushless esc AND 6ch reciever?? Perhaps we have been blinded by all the cheap stuff coming out of China. My first PCM radio was $800 (complete) in 1985. $69 bought 1 futaba retract servo in $1985. My first crappy .25 size arf airframe cost over $100 then, so $169.00 for a modern RTF biplane seems resonable. One cant take the size or construction material into the $ equation, as the true value comes in the overall engineering package. How many sub $200 planes come with 100s of hrs of development by 2 of the top rc aircraft pilot/designers??
We have a plane that is the same price as a 4site with more content and engineering, not to mention a scale finish. Id almost buy one JUST for the looks!
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:55 PM
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THanks for all of the 3d help guys!
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:13 PM
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you really cannot deny how well this plane flies in the videos no matter what you have to say about the plane itself or the pricing
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkinpat View Post
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=acrobipe

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=604







But then again it was not RTF. you did have to get out a knife and put some time ito it. I can convert one in about 2 hours.

ACROBIPE and then later it showed up as a harbor freight biplane I stocked up for like 7 bucks an airframe.

I have 5 on the shelf. I have converted many a airframe with performance almost identicle to that of the beast. We were converting these in 2004. when we got brushless inrunners, they where even better and more fun. flew like they were on rails.
when I put a beast brick in one it will fly just the same as the beast.

Don't get me wrong, I am excited about the beast. it looks great. but for the $ they are asking I doubt it will amaize me as I have already had a 15" WS biplane thel looks like a Pitts for years. we even used magnetic hatches. revolutionary at the time in 2005.

What I am excited about is the brick. a 6 ch brick with brushless that is great. but worth the $. not sure about that.

I would value the brick at about $80 bucks. that puts the airframe at a steep price.
Nice concept, but hardly in the same league as the beast. Yes, the technology has been around BUT, Its not just what parts are in these planes, but the NUMEROUS tweaks that we cant see.
THIS BEAST IS DESIGNED TO AMAZE THOSE WHO CAN APPRECIATE A LACK OF ROLL COUPLING, OR LACK OF TRIM CHANGE THROUGH THE SPEED RANGE..NOT TO MENTION THE SCALE FINISH, etc.
Yes, one can take a cheap airframe and power it generously to mimic the dynamics of the beast, but you are still gonna be limited by the dihedral and undercambered wings, etc....
AND HOW MANY HOURS DID ONE SPEND ON THE BEAST WANABE, (including gathering parts, research, etc.) ? SOME OF US PUT A VALUE ON THEIR TIME ALSO.
With that said, I DO like variety and will likely be retrofitting a few cheap airframes just as I did with the brushed/6400 gear MANY times.
No matter how good I think I am, I would never expect to create something as dynamic as the beast.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:30 PM
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Regina, SK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt View Post
If you think this airplane is just some cheap foam and electronics, think again. It was designed and fine-tuned by WORLD-CHAMPION pilot Quique Somenzini to provide the best flying experience possible. If you think it's just some cheap foam and electronics, let me point you toward some products by Air Hogs. They're foam, they feature electronics, and they fly. It takes the touch of a master to put it all together in a package that truly performs. That's what E-flite is about: Advancing electric flight.
Well then it should perform better than my first sukhoi did out of the box.

Rob
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:37 PM
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Wow this thread has taken a turn for the ad hominem... Its just RC planes folks...

Can't wait to fly a Beast and can't wait to see what the next UMX entry will be.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:41 PM
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I would agree that this is a fair price for this package but I don't think it is fair to say a plane like this in so and so year would have been $800.00 to put together and that means that it is impossible for it to be over priced at under $200. Several years ago my TV would have been $20,000. Now they have the ability to build more of them for much cheaper and it is only $1500. That is pretty cheap if you say it real fast. Because of that millions of people have them in their homes. The same holds true for RC. HH has found a way to manufacture these planes really well for really cheap. I am sure there is a meeting at some point to discuss price point and I am sure there is quite a bit of wiggle room in the pricing. They try like everybody else to hit a competitive price point that everybody can live with. The fact that a biplane of this caliber in 1980 would have cost well over $1000 plays no part in the conversation in my mind.

I do think the price is good though and if it weren't so windy here and my skills were a little better I would buy one in a flash.

\\edit: Who makes that bulldog model pat? Is it a 14" WS, did you say? Is it the Acrobipe/HF one?
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:00 PM
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United States, MA, Sutton
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I have a suggestion for those that thing the price is too high....

Don't buy it.



Also check out this project triangle...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_triangle

* Design something quickly and to a high standard, but then it will not be cheap.
* Design something quickly and cheaply, but it will not be of high quality.
* Design something with high quality and cheaply, but it will take a long time.



For those that wonder why the price is so high think about this...

Want to purchase the guts and save some money or purchase the plane with no guts... Then just wait for a couple weeks after these are introduced and browse ebay for Horizon selling these things in bulk as they honor warranty work for people that have no business flying a high performance mini plane thinking it will fly like an Air Hogs plane.

Check it out

http://stores.ebay.com/Hobb-e-Mart_R...34Q2ec0Q2em322
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Until the beast. No micro has matches the capability of my acrobipe conversions. Sure it took time to figure out. and cost some money for components. Off the shelf components I might add so you could put them in other planes. But I think I had $100 bucks in it. including the radio. The beast is only BNF. No radio option even. I think you will see Beasts or PZ versions with the 6 ch brushless card enter the market for competition in the $120 range within a year. Imo

When I first saw the beast my first thought was they copied the acrobipe, and made a new fuse for it. even the hatches were in similar places as our conversions. So I wouldn't really call the acrobipe conversion a Beast wanna be since I have been flying one before the molds were made on the beast.

Seriously I would be surprised of the designers were not inspired by acrobipe conversions.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:24 PM
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Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
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These forums crack me up, every time ANYTHING new comes out some people gripe about the cost. The poor balsa kitters have practically disappeared because so many people think a 70.00 kit is a ripoff. Maybe all the complainers should take up knitting, buy a 1.00 ball of yarn now and then and you're good to go I've been flying electrics for over 20 years and getting into the hobby has never been cheaper and easier than it is right now, and the performance has never been better. The electrics area of the hobby has been heading down this road of making things smaller and smaller, and the recent crop of micros really have pushed the hobby into new territory. Yes, people have built their own micros in balsa and foam in the past (me included) and no, it's not a new concept; but now instead of needing a degree in advanced electronics and lightweight construction techniques, anyone can walk down to the LHS and buy one totally ready to go right off the shelf. THAT is revolutionary.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:31 PM
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United States, TX, Odessa
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I wouldn't say it is revolutionary as much as I would say it is god business. Keeping the hobby expensive and difficult doesn't make much sense to anybody but purists. It's not like HH is doing us a favor by making these planes affordable. It is a mutual relationship.

At any rate this thing looks incredible and i am dying to know if there is going to be a PZ version in a little bigger size. I realize if I really wanted bigger it is already available but I think i need a little smaller than the O.G. beast.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by major.monogram View Post
I would agree that this is a fair price for this package but I don't think it is fair to say a plane like this in so and so year would have been $800.00 to put together and that means that it is impossible for it to be over priced at under $200. Several years ago my TV would have been $20,000. Now they have the ability to build more of them for much cheaper and it is only $1500. That is pretty cheap if you say it real fast.
When GOOD LCD tvs were $1500, a good chunk of people bought Panasonic, Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, Samsung at that price, while other probably paid half of that for MUCH cheaper brands (While saying people were stupid to pay that much for the same size tv they got for so cheap!). Sure enough, quite often, they had the same LCD panel (it's the main part of the tv, there's only a few factory making them) so that's like having a good Rx and a good motor. But your cheap LCD tv as everything else borderline at best. A power supply that will blow as soon as there's a surge on the power line and with 25V capacitors on a 24V rail (no safety margin on components). A logic board with a $0.13 cpu, so when you switch channels, you have the time to go take a coffee. A remote control that will break the first time you will drop it on the floor. Etc. They saved a lot of money by buying a cheap brand LCD tv. Yeah. They are probably the exact same one who think that AirHog are cheap, so HH should be.

Same thing with Laptops! Some people like to buy a Dell, some people like to buy a Acer and save a one hundred bucks! When somebody ask me to fix an Acer laptop because the power button is broken after they pressed it 50 times, or their power connector is broken after a small tug on the wire, or they cannot find the letter "S" anymore (lost in transit!) or an hinge is broken (all things that happen way too often), I show them my recycling bin and I tell them they saved sooo much money that they should buy another one! And another one, and another one. Or maybe simply buy a decent brand laptop next time.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkinpat View Post
Seriously I would be surprised of the designers were not inspired by acrobipe conversions.
I think they are more inspired by the real thing than anything else.
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