SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:58 AM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
Discussion
Cox katidid

DAMN THIS PLANE JUST WONT FLY

ive tried all the motors the cox company though would work only the black widow even allowed it to be underpowered all up weight is 1.25 lbs so immma gonna have to try it without landing gear and no throotle servo to get it down to 1.0 lbs any other ideas????????????????
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 18, 2010, 05:04 AM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
anyone try a .09 enya or a .10 os fp on one ever?
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2010, 08:55 AM
Registered User
United States, NY, Ithaca
Joined Sep 2007
914 Posts
Something is wrong here. 20 oz is in no way too much weight for a Cox reed valve engine, unless you're expecting high performance. I flew a TF Schoolmaster at that weight with a Cox QRC and it was great. No problem looping from level flight and other basic 3 channel maneuvers. I taught myself to fly on that combination and I needed to REDUCE the power in the beginning.

Jim
buzzard bait is online now Find More Posts by buzzard bait
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2010, 01:25 PM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
black widow stock was only one to do anything better than taxi it

i have no idea what cox was thinking with this plane
there is no way the .049 will pull it unless i throw on a tee dee or a rr1
but the instructions state that it should fly like an eagle with just a ranger or rc bee cox on it and will be a performance plane with black widow im so glad i had other planes to fly each time i tried madiening

im thinking about the fox rc .07 or enya .09 at this point but would have to heavily modify the nose for the enya so that is last ditch effort

today i ditched landing gear and supports, thr ring linkage and servo and will try it with my best bee without throttle at a weight of 16.2 oz all up weight with fuel and battery

it upsets me to not be able to fly it with a cox .049 so ill try my best might ever remover covering from fuse and cut out small triangle or circles of balsa to lighten it more im hoping to get it to 15.25 or less that is what my plane calc is telling me would be best for flying (assuming me and the calculator did our math correctly)


ps plans auctulay call for all up weight of 20 to 24 in which case even if the span was doubled the thing would not have lift needed


Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard bait View Post
Something is wrong here. 20 oz is in no way too much weight for a Cox reed valve engine, unless you're expecting high performance. I flew a TF Schoolmaster at that weight with a Cox QRC and it was great. No problem looping from level flight and other basic 3 channel maneuvers. I taught myself to fly on that combination and I needed to REDUCE the power in the beginning.

Jim
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2010, 02:07 PM
Registered User
surfer_kris's Avatar
Sweden
Joined Jan 2008
992 Posts
What is the wingspan and area? Are you hand launching or ROG?

I learnt to fly in the early 80-ties using only a BabeBee and a standard radio, 20oz was nothing uncommon back then (mine was closer to 22oz). I would even handtoss it deadstick, just to check the glide and CG location...
surfer_kris is offline Find More Posts by surfer_kris
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:23 PM
Slow 'n Steady...Grease 'r In
kpriddle's Avatar
Maine
Joined Oct 2008
1,263 Posts
This sounds like it could even be your scale unless this plane, for some odd reason, is incredibly draggy.

Which engines have you used other than the Black Widow?

KP
kpriddle is offline Find More Posts by kpriddle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2010, 07:27 PM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
wingspan 41 in
wing area 265
too much dihedral in my opinion

in testing cg and glide characteristics dead stick id be able to say she is a stick shaped brick (one of last cox arf) and is a real loser

ive tried sure start, babe bee, postage stamp high airflow coustom engine, and all the ones said to be great for it on the box (rc bee, ranger, dragonfly)

dragon fly and black widow came closest to real flite but still bearly powered it
ill try it with all weight i removed tommorow if its too hot to work again and ill be bringing my newly built wizzard from another old ace kit i was able to wrangle up and fly that for control and then test the cox with lowered weight



(wizard is tested and proven well and fast after i removed dihedral from wings ) on next build i might go for ailerons


i have 4 scales and all are working fine i was thinking if anything maybe my tach


Quote:
Originally Posted by kpriddle View Post
This sounds like it could even be your scale unless this plane, for some odd reason, is incredibly draggy.

Which engines have you used other than the Black Widow?

KP
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2010, 07:30 PM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
id really like to work it out for dragonfly or rc bee

because they have great amounts of fuel in built in tank

i may go with .07 rc fox, .09 medalion if i can find one on the real cheap , or an os 10 i have since its a little monster but hate to add anything not .049 to it

its kinda like painting a beard on the mona lisa
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 01:31 AM
Registered User
surfer_kris's Avatar
Sweden
Joined Jan 2008
992 Posts
20 oz on 265 inch2 sounds fine to me, a typical trainer wingloading, so it might just needs some tuning.

If it doesn't glide well then check the wing incidence and CG, raise the leading edge of the wing to get more lift and/or move CG rearwards.

For the powered flight you may have been using a too small prop, with a 41" span there will be a lot of drag. Try a 6x3 if you haven't already. Engine thrust angle is another thing to check.

The oldschool way of running things was a high angle of attach on the wing and a lot of downthrust on the engine. If you look closely at a Ben Buckle model it looks kind of odd. They balloon with throttle but barely changes forward speed.

An Enya 09 will hover a 20 oz model (or even heavier too), so don't go that route, but a norvel .061 or .074 would work. With the .074 you can use a 7x3 prop and throttle back, and still have about the same weight and look as a 1/2a engine.

If you already have a fox 07RC you could try that too. They are very lightweight and can pull a larger diameter prop.

First you need to sort out the glide, no engine will transform it into a nice flying plane if it doesn't fly well with the power off.
surfer_kris is offline Find More Posts by surfer_kris
Last edited by surfer_kris; Aug 19, 2010 at 01:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 05:07 AM
Registered User
Ireland
Joined Apr 2001
4,031 Posts
is the cg rigth?
cmulder is offline Find More Posts by cmulder
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 07:30 AM
Registered User
earlwb's Avatar
USA, TX, Grapevine
Joined Dec 2008
13,148 Posts
We used to just hand launch them way back when COX was more popular. I used to fly these types of planes all the time with COX 049 engines. Airtronics Q-Tee was just as pib, the Golberg falcon and Skylanes were about the same size too. I did build a Q-Tee with a RC Cox .049 on it and I could ROG it OK, I used to do touch and goes with it too.
I can't think of anything off hand as to why you having problems though.
earlwb is offline Find More Posts by earlwb
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My new Gaui X5 Rc Helicopter
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 08:23 AM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
cg is good and ive run the 6x3 prop as well every other type of prop i have

but allas it aint working

when you say hover do you mean like sick vertical?

if that would work id do it in a second and then revove dihedral from wings and see what an old army like trainer can do in scale

but i think i may shim up the front of wing like you advise surfer kris because theive noticed it has no lift without triming elevator on glide and most my working 1/2a do lift when chucked for glide test at least til the momentum stops

i wonder if im the only one with these issues with this damn plane and almost wish i never bought it ...im sticking with ace kits and wings from here on in no more arf....

id try a norvel but have none traded my.061 for a giant scale biplane last week thinking i would not need it

i have a texaco coming nos cox for the sole purpose of using on this plane so if it dont work im over it and there will be a huge 42 inch yellow pile of monokote in my flying feild from where i take the engine off and remove reciever and call it a day ( will use Texaco with 7x3 7x4 and high thrust cox nos competition 8x4) the 8 x4 were older props for .09 medalions and texaco .049 events but it sounds like a high prop for the 049 to me
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 10:32 AM
Registered User
surfer_kris's Avatar
Sweden
Joined Jan 2008
992 Posts
Yes, with hover I meant hanging on the prop and more, i.e. unlimited vertical. I have an old Enya 09RC that spinns a 7x5 prop at 13400rpm on 0% nitro. It is now in a 43" Topstick with a weight of about 23oz and the verticals sure feel unlimited to me. The engine is really loud though and runs a bit rough, so apart from doing uplines it is not that much fun...

It sounds like you have a reversed Bumblebee problem at hand, neither you nor the plane thinks that it can fly.
surfer_kris is offline Find More Posts by surfer_kris
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 12:22 PM
kill your idols
ZEROSKIN76's Avatar
utica new york
Joined May 2009
1,819 Posts
i hate to give up but after maybe 20 more tries im really done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


what is a bumblebee problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer_kris View Post
Yes, with hover I meant hanging on the prop and more, i.e. unlimited vertical. I have an old Enya 09RC that spinns a 7x5 prop at 13400rpm on 0% nitro. It is now in a 43" Topstick with a weight of about 23oz and the verticals sure feel unlimited to me. The engine is really loud though and runs a bit rough, so apart from doing uplines it is not that much fun...

It sounds like you have a reversed Bumblebee problem at hand, neither you nor the plane thinks that it can fly.
ZEROSKIN76 is offline Find More Posts by ZEROSKIN76
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2010, 03:20 PM
Registered User
Pirkkala, Finland
Joined Jan 2005
560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEROSKIN76 View Post
what is a bumblebee problem
Everybody thinks that according to known physics, bumblebees shouldn't really be able to fly at all, yet since nobody has made the bumblebees themselves aware of that, they just keep flying.
Jupeli is offline Find More Posts by Jupeli
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted Trade NIB Cox RR1 for NIB Cox 05 RC? flyer368 Aircraft - Fuel - Engines and Accessories (FS/W) 5 May 03, 2010 09:50 AM
Sold Cox Blue Baby Bee Hey Cox Guys, Got One Of These? BobHH Aircraft - Fuel - Engines and Accessories (FS/W) 0 Apr 29, 2010 06:59 PM
Sold well this may be a good electric conv. vintage cox cessna skylane 182 w/ cox radio rcrick10 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Apr 03, 2010 01:24 AM
Sold vintage cox cessna skylane w cox radio rcrick10 Aircraft - Fuel - Airplanes (FS/W) 0 Mar 30, 2010 10:14 PM
Sold Sold - Cox TD .051, Cox .049, Cox .020 F-111 John Aircraft - Fuel - Engines and Accessories (FS/W) 4 Sep 22, 2009 08:43 AM