|Aug 17, 2010, 12:45 PM|
Cranfield Uni, Beds, UK
Joined Nov 2004
+1 for the Zugvogel!
I can make fuselage cross sections available along with a copy of the factory General Arrangement drawing...
|Aug 17, 2010, 03:51 PM|
I'd hope the outcome of this project provides others with the inspiration to tackle something a bit further up the hill than, say, a Westwings Skylark (nothing wrong with it, I have one, and a Fournier), maybe as a preparation or motivation for going on to more complex kits or scratchbuilding. But as I said earlier in the thread I'd also hope the kit would provide the experienced builder with a light relief opportunity. So I don't think the two target audiences are in conflict.
And then I come to the quote from Vintage1 I used in the first post of this thread:
"What I think is ideal therefore is something that is relatively easy to *BUILD* and finish to a high standard, I don't care if it's awkward to design, however. That gets done once only."
My vision is that we meet that objective with something that is certainly able to meet the "that looks about right" concept at a minimum but ideally with a little more so that those who want to can put that little bit extra into their model. That may be a focus on the scale detail or for the relatively inexperienced like me a focus on finishing it nicely so it may only be a TLAR but it'll be a TLAR I can be proud of. However we don't want a model that is not a sweet flyer or is temperamental, and that may necessitate tinkering with flying surface areas, with airfoils and maybe with recognising that very fine tapered wingtips on a 3m-ish model are dangerous territory, much as I love the Fafnir!
Can I gently suggest that we call a halt on a further new suggestions, otherwise we're going to be overfaced (I already am!) and try and get some agreement on a shortlist of two or three that may not include your dream but does include a model you'd be happy to see (and which you might buy - important point! - or, I suppose, think others would buy, even if you wouldn't )
I'd never have thought,for example, of the Zugvogel but I think I'm falling in love, and it does seem we have access to the necessary documentation?
Does it make sense to major on one that meets Vintage1's "easy to build and finish to a high standard" and then when that's been a commercial success and we've built the "classic sailplane" brand and brought more into the fold we'll get Vintage1 to do ANOTHER - a real beauty!
|Aug 17, 2010, 04:00 PM|
Seriously, this is pretty good feedback. Cheapest market research ever done!
Let's say that if a plane sells a dozen, its a roaring success. Nothing is more disheartening than to make a plane that I think looks good, files well, and no one ever buys it.
If its sells two or three, although it ain't great, its still worth doing. I can't say for sure how many Minnies we have sold, but its more than three, and less than seven. But its a long term investment..that sort of plane will do two a year for a decade. That's pretty much true of ALL our designs. Two a year is about average. Let's face it how many kits CAN you build and destroy in a year anyway? people have cupboards full of kits.
I still think Roger should list up ALL the planes that have been mentioned, and set up a poll. We can simply vote for one or more of the designs. Any of what's been mentioned looks like a nice project so I have no real favourites. The key is really to have decent data to work off.
Last edited by vintage1; Aug 17, 2010 at 04:12 PM.
|Aug 17, 2010, 04:11 PM|
|Aug 17, 2010, 06:08 PM|
I think only you CAN do it - its 'your thread'
Oh. You can only set up a poll when you create a new thread.
So we will have to star one.
Best to start making up a list of ALL the stuff we have discussed, and when its complete, I'll make new poll thread up.
|Aug 17, 2010, 08:42 PM|
So far I would be happy with the Olympia with the most common type of tail, and with a wheel.
I would also be happy with a Ka 8.
I had one once many years ago, from a German kit and was amazed at how well it glided, but it was one of my first gliders. I think I gave it to a friend's son, and I don't think I ever had radio gear in it. One of the attractions of the Ka 8 is that I flew one once. It was not one of our club gliders so it was a one and only flight.
|Aug 18, 2010, 12:18 AM|
|Aug 18, 2010, 01:53 AM|
OK here's the list. It has one or two that are "modern materials" ( I think we have to accept that some of the later classics may have had moulded components such as nose cones) such as the Blanik and the Libelle but since I was in favour of the "cheat" Blanik I've left the Libelle in as well.
I'm a bit worried that 32 may simply be too many to make a meaningful poll but the only thing I can suggest is that we authorise the designer to trim the list based on his own criteria of good support documentation, easy to build and capable of a high standard of finish and something that "looks right". It's already clear that there are some favourites and one or two that are already available in kit form elsewhere.
I hope no-one thinks I left their baby out, and I have included suggestions that were made in the old Minimoa thread. I've also checked that a google search will bring up details of any and all of them (but not necessarily enough details for Vintage1)
Breguet 905 Fauvette
Eon Olympia 2b
Rhoensperber Sperber Junior
Scheibe Bergfalke IV
Scheibe Bergfalke Mu-13
Scheibe Zugvogel IIIa
Scheibe Zugvogel IV
Schleicher ASK -18
Slingsby King Kite
Slingsby Skylark 2 Merlin
Slingsby Skylark 3b
Slingsby T 51
Wassmer WA-22 Javelot
Wasmer WA-30 Bijave
EDIT Vintage1 I'm assuming you allow us more than one vote - if we could pick our favourite 3 then that would help reduce the list of 32 down to a shortlist of... 3?
Last edited by Roger Lombard; Aug 18, 2010 at 02:45 AM.
|Aug 18, 2010, 03:24 AM|
North Yorkshire UK, on a big hill facing the prevailing wind. Coincidence?
Joined Oct 2007
Thanks for doing this Roger. I have just one concern and it's that some of the above won't have enough aerodynamic efficiency to fly well at just 3m span.
Some of them have relatively high AR (>16), so they'll have precious little wing area (so high wing-loading + stall speed). Others have narrow tip chords that won't please Mr Reynolds. And fat-fuselages + wing-struts will struggle at this size too.
Do hope this doesn't sound negative. Just think they may actually be good reasons to prune down the list.
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