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Old Aug 10, 2010, 07:52 PM
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Barry great post. I wholeheartedly agree.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 09:13 PM
KC
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Originally Posted by sea20 View Post
...I don't want to chance getting in whatever potential trouble there is for unintentionally purchasing illegitimate name brand products.
Has that ever happened? I'm hiding all my RC stuff under the mattress just incase.

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Old Aug 11, 2010, 03:00 AM
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I only can fully agree with Barry Wilson.

There was a monopoly position with LiPoly for sure.
The prices where and are some times sky high.
I do not believe their marketing stories...to cover up sky high prices.

Consumers are no idiots.
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 09:17 AM
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I visited a computer power supply factory in China 5 years ago, a workforce of 2,800. They produce name brand units + OEM + Private Label. With so many different brand names in PC power-supply, there are less than 10 manufacturers in the whole country (China). Yes, component quality/price could be different, but they all come from the same production line.
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 04:02 PM
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Seems my experience with Chinese manufacturing (non RC) is a little different. What I have seen are a lot of shops both large and small popping up all over as the economy expands at an incredible rate.

Even within a known factory there is the issue of raw materials. I’ve at times seen a tremendous amount of variation from the same line producing the same part for the same customer due to raw material issues.

I’m not saying there aren’t quality products made in China, there are, and they continue to improve, but I just disagree with the notion that everything is the same. Or that everything comes from a few factories.

For the record my observations are based on having been in many factories in China and having colleagues that have lived and do live there now, etc. My initial experience with Chinese manufacturing was in the late ‘70s, the change is certainly staggering to say the least.
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by barry wilson View Post
This type of wholesaler will do smoke and mirrors and everything else to detract from any discussion of his actual cost. Lithium polymer batteries have been a great example of this in my opinion.
Chinese companies like Hobby King have had it very easy up to this point. They can manufacture a product, sell it direct to the consumer at normal wholesale pricing and not have to worry about things like distribution networks, labor, duties, shipping, liability, returns or warranty of any kind. Under those same conditions, any US company could do very well and make loads of money. Unfortunately, US companies cannot possibly operate under those conditions.

Once they establish distibution in the USA, they will soon find that the type of consumer they have retained over the years will eat them alive with warranty, service, bad word of mouth and never-ending technical support calls. With all the added costs involved in importing and distribution in the US, they will either have to raise their prices or cheapen their products even further in order to cover their overhead. Their service will be poor - like what you get with many other chinese airplane companies who have set up shop in the US. The first time they get sued, they will simply close down and open a new business.

In the end, they are the ones who will have the monopoly or everyone will be forced to by low quality products because everyone will need to cheapen their products in order to compete with HK and others. Soon after, you won't have a choice any longer - you will buy your cheaply made products and suffer with poor quality, poor customer service, no technical support and no warranty.

In my opinion, consumers like me who care about quality, service and warranty will be much worse off than we ever were before.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 06:07 AM
BrainFart RC-Pilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Fury View Post
Seems my experience with Chinese manufacturing (non RC) is a little different. What I have seen are a lot of shops both large and small popping up all over as the economy expands at an incredible rate.

Even within a known factory there is the issue of raw materials. Iíve at times seen a tremendous amount of variation from the same line producing the same part for the same customer due to raw material issues.

Iím not saying there arenít quality products made in China, there are, and they continue to improve, but I just disagree with the notion that everything is the same. Or that everything comes from a few factories.

For the record my observations are based on having been in many factories in China and having colleagues that have lived and do live there now, etc. My initial experience with Chinese manufacturing was in the late Ď70s, the change is certainly staggering to say the least.
Indeed, not everything is the same.
Allot of Hacker brushless are also produced in China.
Depends allot on the demand of the brand and the quality of factories.

CC controlers are also made in Mexico....so it is very common to produce outside USA or Europe.

I prefere a Simprop MagicTorque brushless motor (also fair in price) above a Turnigy brushless motor.
At the other hand I prefer Rhino or Turnigy lipoly above expensive brands I used before.

So it depends allot on the product itself.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Skyshark01 View Post
Chinese companies like Hobby King have had it very easy up to this point. They can manufacture a product, sell it direct to the consumer at normal wholesale pricing and not have to worry about things like distribution networks, labor, duties, shipping, liability, returns or warranty of any kind. Under those same conditions, any US company could do very well and make loads of money. Unfortunately, US companies cannot possibly operate under those conditions.

Once they establish distibution in the USA, they will soon find that the type of consumer they have retained over the years will eat them alive with warranty, service, bad word of mouth and never-ending technical support calls. With all the added costs involved in importing and distribution in the US, they will either have to raise their prices or cheapen their products even further in order to cover their overhead. Their service will be poor - like what you get with many other chinese airplane companies who have set up shop in the US. The first time they get sued, they will simply close down and open a new business.

In the end, they are the ones who will have the monopoly or everyone will be forced to by low quality products because everyone will need to cheapen their products in order to compete with HK and others. Soon after, you won't have a choice any longer - you will buy your cheaply made products and suffer with poor quality, poor customer service, no technical support and no warranty.

In my opinion, consumers like me who care about quality, service and warranty will be much worse off than we ever were before.
I agree, somewhat, but when it comes to selling a LiPo that cost them $2.99 for $29.99 I think they should simply be shot.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 12:21 PM
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There seems to be some ongoing confusion. Most do not mind paying a reasonable markup for quality goods. Everyone has to exist after all. I just had enough of being bent over some time ago.

When it is the exact same item with another sticker at several times the available price with the original sticker. I loose interest fast.

As for warranty and service. I have not required much over the years simply by careful selection of items. Yes you have to pay for it but not at a rate that the vast majority of purchases will fail. That is a distortion of reality.

I usually never buy the introduction of a new item until it has been in the market for awhile. This rule applies generally to all manufactured products we purchase regardless of source or type.

I am following the new purported nano batteries at present to acertain how they do in the field. Unless the sirens of a new item are too compelling I just wait and see. This approach seems to pay real dividends. Without this site it would not work half as well.

My attitude is partially a result of the large north american suppliers/distributors destroying the possibility of self standing hobby shops existance. For quite a few years now there is not a reasonable stocked or run hobby shop within sensible driving distance.

Those large suppliers/distributors did not have the right to do what they did. Their self interest and greed knew no bounds and as a result I cannot support them. Monopolies at their worse. Their behaviours have left a massive vaccum that others will hopefully fill.

It almost seems if the rules of supply and demand etc had been manipulated or set aside to a great extent. They actually have once a segment becomes almost monopolized by the wrong people. This is almost always the outcome. There are not enough people with the required forward looking intellect in positions of influence it seems.

In a fashion by purchasing overseas this has become a hobby guy consumer revolt now as the amount of hobby guys doing so is a signifigant percentage of the whole. If this starts to apply to a lot of other general items we purchase as individuals it should provide some corrective action over time. It again is simply voting with your wallet.
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 04:36 AM
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Billy, you are a very very wise man, and just like you, I am very sad to see the local hobby shop vanish because of the large North America online distribution system. I can only hope that if I ever achieve my dream of owning an online hobby store, that I can make it in an ever changing hobby world and maybe change it for the better.
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 07:42 AM
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Dayton Intl, Ohio, United States
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Originally Posted by TreeDiver View Post
Indeed, not everything is the same.


CC controlers are also made in Mexico....so it is very common to produce outside USA or Europe.

So it depends allot on the product itself.
Not unless Mexico has invaded Kansas

A prime example of what Skyshark was saying. Hxt 900 servo from China
$2.69 from the US warehouse $4.99 and it won't get better.

Azarr
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Azarr View Post
Not unless Mexico has invaded Kansas
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2#post11910208
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