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Old Jan 11, 2012, 01:58 PM
I am a Helicolic! Citizen#207
Tomy.'s Avatar
Redmond, WA
Joined Aug 2010
47 Posts
I was out yesterday with my son to fly a few packs. The version of the power system I have is possibly the latest from Nitroplanes (purchased right before christmas). Temp about 45 degrees, no winds at all.

Used 3 cell TP LIPO packs without limiting the throttle out. Used 10x6 prop. Climb out is ok, but plane stalls at any angle over about 30 degrees. It climbed at about 100ft per 20-30 seconds. I have not added any thrust->elev mix so it's not easy to keep the climb rate consistent. Used 80-100% throttle on climbs. Motor was warm but not super hot and have not melted anything (yet?).

Last flight, 2 of the 3 screws that held the motor base to the red plastic nose piece came loose. Turned out for a flight only 1 screw and the motor wires held the motor in place. I have not re-tightened those myself when assembled the plane originally (shame on me). Now I put blue locktite on those screws (same that I use on helis) so I suppose this will not be a problem any more.

Yesterday I ordered the 1650KV 250W red turnigy motor with a 30A ESC from HK. Hoping to get better climbs at lower throttle with the 10x6 or 9x5 prop from the higher KV motor. Will try to shoot for consistent 40-45 degree climb at 60-80 percent throttle. I will post here once I tried the new power system in the plane.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 03:10 PM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield View Post
err?? yes 3 cells a123 is what I said=80watts on 9x5 prop and it is not enough for comfortable climbs, 2 cell pack a123 would never fly this bird, although it DOES fly my asw28 on the stock 10x6 prop, but not very strongly I must admit, about the same as minimoa on 3 cells I would say but on asw28 I feel happier with less power for some reason.
Sorry misread what you said.

The 9x5 is strictly for a 3 cell lipo setup. But personally I wouldn't want to push it much over 3/4 throttle during hot weather, even though much smaller than my 11x7. It will be the least efficient prop.

Your 10x6 seems right for the 3 cell a123 as we both said before. Somewhere in between for efficiency. It will be too small for a 2 cell lipo, and on a 3 cell lipo will need some throttle restriction.

The 11x7" prop is good on 2 cell lipos or 65% throttle restricted 3 cells, and probably the most efficient rig on a stock motor.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 03:26 PM
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yorkshire UK
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomy. View Post
I was out yesterday with my son to fly a few packs. The version of the power system I have is possibly the latest from Nitroplanes (purchased right before christmas). Temp about 45 degrees, no winds at all.

Used 3 cell TP LIPO packs without limiting the throttle out. Used 10x6 prop. Climb out is ok, but plane stalls at any angle over about 30 degrees. It climbed at about 100ft per 20-30 seconds. I have not added any thrust->elev mix so it's not easy to keep the climb rate consistent. Used 80-100% throttle on climbs. Motor was warm but not super hot and have not melted anything (yet?).

Last flight, 2 of the 3 screws that held the motor base to the red plastic nose piece came loose. Turned out for a flight only 1 screw and the motor wires held the motor in place. I have not re-tightened those myself when assembled the plane originally (shame on me). Now I put blue locktite on those screws (same that I use on helis) so I suppose this will not be a problem any more.

Yesterday I ordered the 1650KV 250W red turnigy motor with a 30A ESC from HK. Hoping to get better climbs at lower throttle with the 10x6 or 9x5 prop from the higher KV motor. Will try to shoot for consistent 40-45 degree climb at 60-80 percent throttle. I will post here once I tried the new power system in the plane.
Which motor is that then, will it fit right in or are mods needed?
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 04:42 PM
I am a Helicolic! Citizen#207
Tomy.'s Avatar
Redmond, WA
Joined Aug 2010
47 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield View Post
Which motor is that then, will it fit right in or are mods needed?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_250w_.html

I will certainly need to drill the base to fit the 120 degree hole pattern on the plastic mount (the motor base has 90 degrees patter with 4 holes around).
I might need to mod, or use another motor base (or mod the mount) if the base of this motor does not fit into the existing motor's place. I am not sure yet because the new motor's base diameter is not available from the web site, I'll know when I have it in my hands.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 07:16 PM
Wizardofozone
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United States, PA, Zelienople
Joined Sep 2009
414 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomy. View Post
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_250w_.html

I will certainly need to drill the base to fit the 120 degree hole pattern on the plastic mount (the motor base has 90 degrees patter with 4 holes around).
I might need to mod, or use another motor base (or mod the mount) if the base of this motor does not fit into the existing motor's place. I am not sure yet because the new motor's base diameter is not available from the web site, I'll know when I have it in my hands.
Ordering a motor with any mounting holes even close to the base holes was my problem as well ... and what happens is one or two base holes are so darned close one finds it requires more or less elongating existing holes rather than drilling completely intact new holes .... and drilling straight and effectivly into the red tined piece while it's permanently locked within the fuse is maddening even with the best of Dreymls ...
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 03:02 PM
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yorkshire UK
Joined Oct 2007
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10x6 prop set came today and is fitted and tomorows forcast is cold but calm so I hope to fly it and see what its like, vibrations did not seem so bad either on a quick test. WIll report back here after flight test lol!
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 05:23 AM
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yorkshire UK
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4 flights this morning woahooo.
1st flight was 2:30 of power and charged 564mah back in. works out to about 13 amps flight was about 11 mins slight wind over houses again and no thermals.
Power was ok, not quite as strong as I had hoped but comparable to the 10x8 prop delivering its power at lower speeds and so enabling a better angle of attack in climbs, but maybe just a tad less total climb rate, 35 seconds of climb or so to get a good enough height for a glide round to look for thermals, again its dificult to tell how good its really gonna be when wind comes over houses but it was not a very strong wind today.
I have increased timer to 3:10 mins and got a 15 min flight and batts came down at 3.23v per cell used 694mah which means maybe another 30 to 40 secs of power till drop off but that is close enough for me and gives me plenty of mah to use on servos and rx in case I find a thermal and get to stay up longer.
So looks quite promising and I will test again when winds are favourable which should be tomorow as forcast is for light southerly winds instead of northerly ones, fingers crossed.
vibrations were hardly there at all on 1st flight but then came back on rest of flights!!!!
so something is amiss and noy sure what!,prop is all fixed on well and nothing loose
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Last edited by nigelsheffield; Jan 13, 2012 at 05:55 AM.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 09:21 AM
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yorkshire UK
Joined Oct 2007
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4 more this aft and 14 to 15 mins is definitely the bench mark 3flights 15 mins and one 25 mins caught a thermal and that is what its really all about circling around with the birds(feathered ones lol) trying to get the most out a bit of lift, I did not manage to gain much height but stayed up for a good while just slow big circles trying to keep up with the gulls, 1st one this year, I am looking forward finding more in the summer months, I wonder if I can get anywhere near an hour on these batts best so far 33mins with original prop last year!
Still have not tried to fit 2300mah a123 packs in yet but they are looking good in car 20 mins run times vs about 8 on the 1100mah ones and putting back near as damb 2000mah, so depnding on how well it glides with extra weight flight times on these may well start at around 35 to 40 mins, but thermaling will be worse due to extra wing loading, then again it might not as I will take out the dead weights at front. will try soon.
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Last edited by nigelsheffield; Jan 13, 2012 at 01:46 PM.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 03:38 PM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
Joined Feb 2007
2,775 Posts
Looks good Nigel!

Motocalc is showing max draw at 14.4 amps w/3cell LiFe and average around 13 amps as you report. So I think the modeling is pretty good. Depending on your AUW, WOT climb looks like around 500+ fpm.

It says you're putting 135 watts into the motor, but the significant thing is it only shows 29 watts waste heat at this rate, which isn't too bad. Winter helps cooling, too.

FYI, after launch, if you throttle back to 88% it shows you running 100 watts and 19 watts waste heat.
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 02:26 AM
I am a Helicolic! Citizen#207
Tomy.'s Avatar
Redmond, WA
Joined Aug 2010
47 Posts
Nice flying today

Went out today it was about 44 degrees, cloudy but completely windless. Shot an onboard video with my son flying. If anyone interested, the footage is here on youtube.

Anyways, the new stuff I ordered is not yet here so he was flying with the stock power system and 10x6 props. It worked quite well. We've added 25% mix thro->down elev in the radio and had approx 30 degree constant ascent with about 80-90% power. Other than takeoff he did not need 100% throttle to climb. Plane did beautiful straight level descent hands off. Motor was luke warm after the fligth. Used 3 cell 2200mah LiPos, discharged about 50-60% with flights about 16-20 minutes long. I think with 80% discharge (down to 3.7V per cell) the plane could stay in the air for about 25 mins.

Now does anyone know how to convert one of those keychain or dice type cameras to drive the video signal to an OSD like this one from HK for mixing and back into the cam for recording? That'd make some super cool footage with overlaid flight data!
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 02:50 AM
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yorkshire UK
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Originally Posted by vtdiy View Post
Looks good Nigel!

Motocalc is showing max draw at 14.4 amps w/3cell LiFe and average around 13 amps as you report. So I think the modeling is pretty good. Depending on your AUW, WOT climb looks like around 500+ fpm.

It says you're putting 135 watts into the motor, but the significant thing is it only shows 29 watts waste heat at this rate, which isn't too bad. Winter helps cooling, too.

FYI, after launch, if you throttle back to 88% it shows you running 100 watts and 19 watts waste heat.
So that would mean 81 watts of useful power at 88% vs 105% watts useful power, I will give it a go but it feels pretty weak as it is I have to "fly" it up by keeping an angle of about 10 to 20 degrees at most at a guess, its no rocket ship lol.
I honestly dont know how to guess climb rate without an altitude sensor, but 1 mins climb will give 3:48 mins glide no thermals tot 4:48 mins if anyone has any idea how to convert that. My auw will be a touch lighter than most as I have just one of the weights in and my batts weigh about 125 grams putting my cog at 70mm(checked last night while deciding to put in 2300mah a123 pack which weighs about 215 grams and will add about 30 grams but cog will stay the same as batts will not go right up front and I will need to cut some foam to fit but will give me loooong flight times then).
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 11:50 AM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
Joined Feb 2007
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A 2 cell lipo with 11x7 will fly nearly as well since there is a better total powertrain efficiency (including prop). Maybe marginally less, but close. And duration while cruising will be better. You could also use an 11x7 and limit throttle for the same effect.

BTW 88% throttle really means measured wattage, not necessarily stick position (or programming TX). Even though I've used that description so far when talking about my setup.

Because different ESCs have different non-linear throttle responses. So best to just put an ammeter in the line temporarily to measure actual WOT current, and also some other throttle position that you want to try to fly at, if you do.

Ideally you'd measure batt voltage at that rate simultaneously. That's what I did. So I feel I know my plane pretty well that way.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 03:31 AM
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yorkshire UK
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Well, there is no wind, there is no rain, no fog, no snow, perfect for flying then? Well yes great for flying but not for landing as ground is frozen solid like concrete and all chewed up by footballers and dogs etc so its gonna rip the bottom of my planes to bits( I know this from experience last year!).
I took my asw28 down yesterday as at least that is very light and lands nice and slow and I have taped up underneath to offer some protection, 2 landings were ok but on the other 2 hit a jagged bump in mud and plane bounced up and tape ripped and put a nice dent in plane, so I dont want to risk minimoa as that is still nice and new looking and I have taped the front but it really need glassing for that field as it is at the moment.
Gonna be -2 or so for the next new days then the winds are back just as it warms up lol.
I can tell how much I have improved the climb on minimoa now by comparing it to asw28 which had the same climb rate, as asw28 now seems to climb very slowly( on 2 cells a123). Might have to sort that one out next but that means either a bigger prop or 3 cells a123 which means 40 grams more or maybe 3 cells lipo for ballistic performance but runs the risk of burning out motor, or go back to 2 cells lipo as it was intended lol.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 01:02 PM
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United States, VA, Winchester
Joined Nov 2010
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Hey guys,

I just got my Minimoa last week and couldn't stand the stock power plant. So made a simple 1/4" plywood mount and put a Power10 in it. It fits great with just a little foam carving. I can now rocket to the clouds in seconds instead of hours. LOL! It is so much fun now because I have the ability to do whatever I want without having to worry about how long it's going to take to climb back up. Plus there is no overheating issues. So I'm running a Power10, 45amp ESC, and 11x8 folding prop. Also for those of you have trouble landing this plane in the winter due to nasty ground I catch mine by the wing with whatever hand is not controlling the elevator. Just bring it in like your landing it at about chest height and just walk fast or jog with it for a couple of seconds reach up or out and lightly grab the wing and kind of spin to bleed off any remaining speed. It's really easy and works perfect for when the ground or space is not available. With the modifications I LOVE THIS PLANE!!!
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Southern Vermont
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