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Old Aug 06, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Chilliwack, BC Canada
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
[It's long so grab a beverage!]

So how's this -- me, 'The Wanderer', bringin' it back On Topic! *hee heeee*

Got the Minimoa maidened yesterday. .................................................. ........

............................................ all that stuff :-) ...............................................

.................................................. .................................................. ...................

Prolly some stuff I forgot to include, but that's way enuff for now.
Clear Skies!
~S*H
Sorry not to mention the rudder. I no longer notice it since I tend to use the rudder a lot with any plane I fly. Like Jackson I tend use opposite aileron quite often to reduce the bank, and lots of rudder to make the turn. Works that way in some pattern planes as well. All the ailerons do it tilt it! Unless you get it near 90 and pull up it won't turn without the rudder.

I just use blue painters tape to stabilize the wings while I am putting them on. A couple of inches on both the top and bottom pretty well does the job. Mine is a bit easier though since they were still putting a second set of metal tubes in the wings when I got mine and an aluminum knitting needle make a perfect second joiner. It still flops around without the tape though. :-)

Try canopy glue on that elevator hinge. It is extremely flexible but strong at the same time. I used it on the ailerons of my Moa. The same kind of incipient tearing. This is what it looked like when I put it together with some canopy glue on it. I just checked and it looks exactly the same now. No progression.



Gord
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 09:06 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordks View Post
Sorry not to mention the rudder. I no longer notice it since I tend to use the rudder a lot with any plane I fly. Like Jackson I tend use opposite aileron quite often to reduce the bank, and lots of rudder to make the turn. Works that way in some pattern planes as well. All the ailerons do it tilt it! Unless you get it near 90 and pull up it won't turn without the rudder.

I just use blue painters tape to stabilize the wings while I am putting them on. A couple of inches on both the top and bottom pretty well does the job. Mine is a bit easier though since they were still putting a second set of metal tubes in the wings when I got mine and an aluminum knitting needle make a perfect second joiner. It still flops around without the tape though. :-)

... that elevator hinge. ... No progression.

Gord
Funny you should mention that -- at the moment I wrote "to keep an eye on", I had just finished marking the present tear limit with a blue micro-Sharpie. (If it progresses beyond that point, I'll know it. (....if that needs telling.) )

Somewhat oddly, that tearing is induced by the very construction method they employ - ie the wire they install to link the two halves of the elevator. If you flex the elevator (as in the standard 'initial breaking-in-of-the-foamy-hinge' process) you'll note the 'flap' portion pulls away from the 'HStab' portion as it bends around the wire. I had to wonder about the size (dia.) of the wire they used -- ain't no way there's that much force exerted on the assembly back there!

BTW - that canopy glue -- know what it really is? Plain ol' rubber cement.
Just another name the industry cooked up to make money with - a la 'Hinge Tape'.

AFA that wing angle-rod, I think once I get it glued in accurately positioned, it'll make handling it a whole lot easier. I could'a just ....ummm...."winged" it (sorry, a thousand times over) and slopped some perma-weld epoxy in....but I wanted to go 'minimalist & breakable-on-demand' in case something comes up where I'll need to get the rod back out. Can't even imagine what that would be, but trust me, if I welded it in, the need would most assuredly arise, knowing my luck! Guaranteed!!
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 02:29 AM
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Another heads up on the servos on this bird, I changed all servos a few weeks ago to be on the safe side as one was chattering but kept the "good ones" as spares for none critical things, just tried 2 of them out for use in a plane as flaps and one chattered like mad and the other just got red hot and then melted.
A good job I changed them all at once and I had a lucky escape.
So my advice to you all is change your servos out at the slightest sign of chattering or maybe just do it b4 to be on the safe side, I would estimate I had flown for something like 10 to 20 hours b4 changing servos.
This problem has been reported b4 by someone else but many of you have not had any problems, the servos were hobby king own brand and black in colour.
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Winds coming up hill this morn and sun was out, perfect conditions even though winds were a bit on the high side for thermalling, but I managed a 1hr5min flight with moa, and a 20 min thermal with blaster and 2 10 min ones and plenty of 5-6 mins.
The moa flight was all but over at 58mins and I was out of power and coming down setting up for a landing when I hit a thermal and she went up really well-not something that happens very often with this bird!
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 07:20 AM
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Hoping to get in some stick time with the 'Mm' this weekend but not looking too promising -- even the dang DOT is warning of hazardous driving conditions from the storm potential. Monday's our (postponed) monthly club meeting date -- maybe then?

To indicate how "ready" I've been - the 'moa itself is still in the Blazer from the maiden; never brought 'er inside since. All I've done is programmed in the rudder-with-aileron mix (20% for starters) & ever since, sittin' here watching it start raining every time timing would be good to slip over to the field. It's been kinda uncanny! To think, 'round these parts we've been under moderate-to-severe drought conditions for like, 5 years now....and right now we're one of the few spots in the USA that isn't under drought! Featured story from this morning's newspaper:
http://www.kinston.com/articles/area...t-liberty.html

I mean, I know "The Game" Mother Nature plays with us when we get a new toy & having to pay penance before she'll allow us to get outside & actually play with it -- penalty time directly proportional to expense & expectations & all that......but this is gettin' downright ridiculous!! I mean, C'MON, MA!!!

(O lord....skies gettiin' darker & the trees & bushes are startin' to wave & shake.)
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 02:16 PM
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Well, the weather here has been good for gliding for a few days!
UNfortunatlely my blaster dlg elevator servo packed up and a aileron one is slipping gears, bummer cause the weather is perfect for it, yesterday just b4 elev stopped I was slopping on little hill for 10 mins at a time.
I am quite annoyed as the servos are sd150 and cost 18 each and have only lasted a few weeks from new, have ordered a sd100 as I read they dont break so easy and some gears.
The sd150s were installed by my m8 who I bought the plane off as they can be used direct off 2 cell lipo and the sd100 can too but if more break I will go to 1 cell lipo and install hxt900 even though they are a bit big.
SO until new bits arrive no dlg fun for me!
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 11:14 PM
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The as-scheduled Sunday rainstorms were kind enough to come thru early in the day & push offshore, leaving behind heavy but high clouds, 90-degree temps & unbelievably humid conditions. Not too comfy to be out in but at least the afternoon was open for some great flying with barely a whisper of a breeze.

I had some really strange things happen to my DX6i but won't get into the details - just to say it took better part of an hour to get it all ironed out. But once we did - WOW!! I'll apologize in advance for the bad camera work, but we got most of the flight on video. Because we were re-maidening after basically reconfiguring the Minimoa's whole setup, I had our CSO do the flying while I handled the filming, having forgotten to pack the Vado flip-cam in & having to resort to a hand-held Keyfob Cam with no viewfinder, kinda shotgunning the aim & hoping for the best. With no zoom capability, the views are afar & as my arm tired, tended to leak off the bottom of the frame, but there's enough there to see most of the action & how well the 'moa performed.

And, right at the first you'll hear Mike's comments about how it was handling (poorly) until ..... we invoked the magic. And the magic was, adding the 20% mix of rudder to the ailerons.....so mark that down in your handbook's margin notes! As you'll see, we caught a nice thermal that was barely moving, and rode it for about as long as we wanted. The 'Mm' shows it well when you've found one, turns a nice tight circle that'll let you hold it, and rides it well. About the only thing remaining to trim is perhaps mixing in some down elevator with full throttle. It isn't at all unmanageable as is, but that one additional tweak should make it at least more comfortable to fly.

In summary - I had some severe doubts about this bird after last week's struggles - and to quote my sensei when we were done...."Take good care of this one - you've got yourself one helluva plane there." And I'll also add we got way more than our share of compliments from the crowd that showed up to fly & watch - everybody loves watching this beauty sail the skies. Gotta say, I'm really proud of her!

So, theres the 'Tell' -- and without further ado.....here's the Show:
120812_Minimoa_RemaidenOnKeyCam.avi (11 min 34 sec)
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 01:23 AM
Balsa Builder. With some foam.
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Eastern Norway Scandinavia
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Mine is still stalling. Even if i am careful with the throttle. I have the rudder mixed in too. But I find it very hard to control and fly. It glide good, but when I use the throttle stick. It's stalling and even looping. We worked with it long time yesterday, and get some flight's but not any real good one. I wonder if I have to little down thrust, after re gluing it after a hard landing. I have also mixed in some down rudder with the throttle.
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 07:00 AM
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Hi Arne;
I'm betting, CG issues. It takes really fine tuning sometimes, & I'm thinking from what I've seen thus far, this plane's one of 'em. It may've been that I hit mine by luck & chance -- not shown in the video but we brought 'er down a couple of times & did some shifting -- but, when all was done I was wise enough to whip out my pen & make some marks!

I'll have to do it later as, got several things going on & I'll have to complete some tests & measures first, but I'll take notes & post some findings after I'm done.

[Addendum]:
Still want to note 'for the record' that one of my happiest findings was I did not have to use any of the kitted steel ballast 'chunks'!
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArneHu View Post
Mine is still stalling. Even if i am careful with the throttle. I have the rudder mixed in too. But I find it very hard to control and fly. It glide good, but when I use the throttle stick. It's stalling and even looping. We worked with it long time yesterday, and get some flight's but not any real good one. I wonder if I have to little down thrust, after re gluing it after a hard landing. I have also mixed in some down rudder with the throttle.
Arne,
This model is not CG sensitive. I have flown it anywhere between 50mm and 70mm.
Some down thrust on the motor is not bad but not essential.
I would check the negatve incidence of the horizontal stabilizer (decalage) caused by screwing the front bolt too tight.
Discussed many times in this thread. Look at post #311 and following.
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 08:20 PM
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Chilliwack, BC Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
The as-scheduled Sunday rainstorms were kind enough to come thru early in the day & push offshore, leaving behind heavy but high clouds, 90-degree temps & unbelievably humid conditions. Not too comfy to be out in but at least the afternoon was open for some great flying with barely a whisper of a breeze.

I had some really strange things happen to my DX6i but won't get into the details - just to say it took better part of an hour to get it all ironed out. But once we did - WOW!! I'll apologize in advance for the bad camera work, but we got most of the flight on video. Because we were re-maidening after basically reconfiguring the Minimoa's whole setup, I had our CSO do the flying while I handled the filming, having forgotten to pack the Vado flip-cam in & having to resort to a hand-held Keyfob Cam with no viewfinder, kinda shotgunning the aim & hoping for the best. With no zoom capability, the views are afar & as my arm tired, tended to leak off the bottom of the frame, but there's enough there to see most of the action & how well the 'moa performed.

And, right at the first you'll hear Mike's comments about how it was handling (poorly) until ..... we invoked the magic. And the magic was, adding the 20% mix of rudder to the ailerons.....so mark that down in your handbook's margin notes! As you'll see, we caught a nice thermal that was barely moving, and rode it for about as long as we wanted. The 'Mm' shows it well when you've found one, turns a nice tight circle that'll let you hold it, and rides it well. About the only thing remaining to trim is perhaps mixing in some down elevator with full throttle. It isn't at all unmanageable as is, but that one additional tweak should make it at least more comfortable to fly.

In summary - I had some severe doubts about this bird after last week's struggles - and to quote my sensei when we were done...."Take good care of this one - you've got yourself one helluva plane there." And I'll also add we got way more than our share of compliments from the crowd that showed up to fly & watch - everybody loves watching this beauty sail the skies. Gotta say, I'm really proud of her!

...........
Congrats! Looks like it is pretty well sorted out and I sounds as if it is pretty popular with your test pilot. 'Tis a beautiful plane! Let us know where the CG wound up if you measure it.


Gord
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 12:08 AM
Balsa Builder. With some foam.
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Eastern Norway Scandinavia
Joined Dec 2009
1,091 Posts
I had to fix the incidence, because screwing to hard. But I will check it one more time, and experiment with the CG. I fly with the iron in the nose, And 2200 battery, check that too. I want this model to fly good!
I must give up elevator, during glide flight. If not, it will come down very fast. But up against the wind, it glide nice, and i have a little spoilerons to flat out the glide. My buddy and I are really scratching our head, trying to master this model. It's really a challenge.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 09:52 AM
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@Gord - I'll have to do that (measure) later as I didn't get in from the field/club meeting/cookout until late last night & she's still out in the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
Arne, ...
I would check the negatve incidence of the horizontal stabilizer (decalage) caused by screwing the front bolt too tight.
Discussed many times in this thread. Look at post #311 and following.
@Galand:
First time thru kind've 'speed reading' the old posts, I remember seeing those comments about the neg-incidence h-stab, too-tight bolts & a cure potential being to shim the front up. Just saw your citation & went back to post 311 (thanks for that btw) & what it said took me back a few more (to the previous page) to refresh background for what was said in the #311 & subsequents.

Incidentally, 'the authority' on that subject matter seems to be Aender69 - for point of reference.

First - when you say "...311 and following", how far following are you suggesting -- ie, up to which post #? I want to make sure I don't miss "the main point" as to the 'climbiness cure' if it's there.

And I ask that becuz, in continued reading of the followup I also saw something else I remembered, namely "By the way, changing the relative incidence of the elevator by one or two millimeters with balsa didn't make any difference.... " -- written by....Aender69 (post #325).

At about which point the subject seemed to drift off towards launch techniques.
So I'm a bit confused. I don't remember seeing - are there any notes herein or do you have suggestions for - any reference points as to how to best determine the tail setup vis-a-vis measurements or gauging we can follow to check our various setups for correctness?

As another point of reference, I've experience to a small degree with correcting Angle of Incidence of H-stabs as, we (thru trial & error & sharing the info) had to do the same thing on the Phoenix 2000 -- with a couple of 4mm washers on the front mounting screw underneath the LE, raising it ~1/8". Does any similar type 'specs' exist in this thread, that you know of? Looked, but didn't find any.

And all, please note when I said "flew like a dream" -- that was, compared to the way it had flown in the three previous, two almost disastrous, flights! I still have the "wanta go vertical on throttle" syndrome, which I have to 'stay all over it' with the down-elevator stick while climbing at anything more than a just-above-idle speed. Hence my reference in the video about exploring mixing down elevator with throttle. I'd much rather get the model itself attuned, as I think most would!

Clear Skies!!
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
...................................

And all, please note when I said "flew like a dream" -- that was, compared to the way it had flown in the three previous, two almost disastrous, flights! I still have the "wanta go vertical on throttle" syndrome, which I have to 'stay all over it' with the down-elevator stick while climbing at anything more than a just-above-idle speed. Hence my reference in the video about exploring mixing down elevator with throttle. I'd much rather get the model itself attuned, as I think most would!

Clear Skies!!
That really is pretty much normal. And I have heard it said more than once that that is pretty much normal for gliders (thermal) in general. I mixed in some down elevator on the throttle channel and it makes things a lot simpler. But it takes a while to get the percentage correct. Too much and it just won't climb at all!

Gord
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Back again....

OK, Gord....for the 3s 2200mAh 30c LiPo weighing 195g, front of pack positioned aft of the cockpit opening (floor mark) @ 30mm, best balance w/o ballast weighting, the CoG for me was at 68mm behind LE.

While I had the measuring tools out....'Dry' weight's coming in at 760g, so with the 190-200g LiPo's I'm running, AUW's in the 950-960g range. Again, this w/ no ballast 'steel'.

Next series of measures gave rise to a question for the long-time owners. I did a thread search for "throws", most hits referred to launching, maybe 3 referred to control surfaces which was what I was looking for....but held no specifics. A couple mention setting theirs up "according to specifications" but I've seen no throw specs in either the 'manual' nor here. Could someone please direct me to where those references can be found?

FTR, my measures were:
On elevator I'm getting +13 & -9 from center, & on rudder I'm getting 10 right & 15 left.
I can see why the difference - I'm getting flexing of the pushrod between tube exit & control horns. I suspect there's also some flexing inside the fuse aft of the servo arms as I can see a little as they're in pushing phase.

The rudder's not such a concern as I'm not using full throws in flight anyway, but I'd like to firm 'em up just the same. Is this something that's been addressed somewhere in the thread?

What kind've throws are you guys getting?
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