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Old Aug 07, 2010, 01:59 PM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
who is it, that you think is working towards their salvation?
I seem to hear many guys with religious beliefs believe that they will be 'saved'... sounds a bit like 'salvation' to me!
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 02:37 PM
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Mentor, OH
Joined Dec 2004
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Lieutenant Daniel Taylor: Have you found Jesus yet, Gump?
Forrest Gump: I didn't know I was supposed to be looking for him, sir.

what if nobody told you about God??

Father Janovich: Why didn't you call the police?
Walt Kowalski: Well you know, I prayed for them to come but nobody answered.

it really amuses me when people say "the power of prayer". what they are really doing is talking to their self. it's almost as if they are meditating. being a believer in one's self, it is my opinion, if you think you can (and give it all your strength), then much of what you want to achieve, is entirely possible.

let's say you pray that you need a job. what do you do first? well, let's put out some resume's. then make some phone calls. maybe being out of work gives you an opportunity to go back to school. did praying do all of these things? no, you did. by "praying" you formulated a plan of action and set goals. you did it, not some divine intervention. what's the motivation? fear. fear of losing your house, car, self respect.

mind over matter. the brain is a powerful organ.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 02:39 PM
Low, slow and dirty
maine
Joined Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by micronut View Post
ET, I see you over there eyeballin them sheep. Don't go gettin any funny ideas.


I don't always agree with E.T. but this is pretty low! So I "commend him" for not slamming that button, just hope the post police doesn't do it for him!

I only hope that you can "take it" as much as dishing it out... Hopefully, we'll all find out in the future...
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 02:49 PM
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A large proportion of any stress felt by non-believers contemplating God is the fear that they will be killed and their property confiscated by those who use this God concept to justify whatever.

As a result of my non-belief in a hereafter, I find that I do not fear death. As my Jeep O Death was rolling over and over after hitting a patch of gravel on a twisty mountain road four years ago, I remember thinking that it would be nice to believe I would soon be reunited with my recently-deceased wife, but I just didn't feel it. What I did fear was being maimed, which fortunately did not happen.

BTW, the W.C. Fields quote about belief is a paraphrase of Henry David Thoreau, who said, "Everyone should believe something; I believe it's time to go fishing."

Belief is the suspension of reason. As Stevie Wonder sang, "If you believe in things you don't understand, you'll suffer. Superstion's not the way."

Don't get me wrong: I well understand the comfort belief can bring. If, while my car was rolling, I did think I would be reunited with her I would have wanted to die. But I didn't, and my girlfriend of two years certainly seems to be glad about that!

Those of us who are non-believers -- whether we be athiests, agnostics, skeptics or just realists -- are just tired of being harrassed by those who would impose their beliefs on others, and especially the crimes against humanity committed in the name of [insert your favorite mythical diety here].

And before you start in on the crimes committed by non-believers such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. you might do well to consider that they would have had far fewer followers if it weren't for the horrors religious bigots had inflicted on people over the centuries. Ironically, their "success" could be construed as Christians (in particular) having reaped what they sowed!
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 02:52 PM
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maine
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Originally Posted by Highflight View Post
But in truth, this event was about nothing but religion.
So why must you belittle the event by suggesting that it's just "bunch of people having a good time"?



From the Up to Faith website:



Yeap , reminds me of that church fair I went too. No police needed, great food, friendly , respectable good time for everyone!

Don't get that in the athiest world....
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Norman Adlam View Post
I seem to hear many guys with religious beliefs believe that they will be 'saved'... sounds a bit like 'salvation' to me!
okay so 'will be saved' = sounds like 'salvation' /agree

where did the working for it come from , in your other post?
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:12 PM
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I was raised to be a "believer" and, well, that's just the way I was for most of my adult life.

When I began thinking, letting the reality sink in, the building of faith collapsed and I am now agnostic.

I testify with all sincerity that I am now 1000% more "calm" and "at peace" with my current belief system. I am not trying to convince anyone I'm right or they're wrong, nor do I feel any obligation to be concerned with what someone believes or what they don't believe. I really enjoy this freedom to believe what makes sense, to place my trust in things that are founded on reason rather than stories that originated thousands of years ago by people who possessed cognitive thinking skills which were marginally higher than your average chimp.

I believe that if you sat down a typical "believer" in biblical stories, told them what's actually in there, they'd have to honestly agree it's packed with incomprehensible, illogical, and downright weird and sometimes even perverted stories. Donkey's talking? Lot and his daughters? Animals by seven's or two's and raining 30 inches per hour for forty days? How many foreskins were delivered and why? On and on and on . . .

What's it going to take before so many more "believers" do what I did and finally succumb to the reality that this biblically based belief has a few "nice ideas" sprinkled among some crazy ing ?

I could always go back to believing in that stuff - but that would be like someone who's been married for two weeks to suddenly have a desire for lifelong celibacy - once you've seen the truth, the truth will set you free. This freedom is not what most "preachers" tell you - you won't have a desire to roam the earth, raping, pillaging, and burning the neighbors next door. The freedom from believing in a false god is so refreshing, so exhilarating, so enjoyable! I believe this can only be truly appreciated by someone who's been on both sides of the fence. The guilt that's heaped upon the closed minds of "believers" is from a man made conception of deity that is completely illogical, horribly mean & stupid, and this message is often shouted by preachers who use ancient mind controlling tactics to keep their flock close at hand.

It's over, it's done, and I can truly understand the obvious sour grapes attitude from the believers perspective.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpinjo View Post
Yeap , reminds me of that church fair I went too. No police needed, great food, friendly , respectable good time for everyone!

Don't get that in the athiest world....
you get in THIS world. as far as not seeing any cops, do you realize just because their not wearing a uniform doesn't mean they are not on duty. did you ever consider there might be "undercover cops" roaming around? open your eyes to reality and stop being cloaked by some religion.

i went to a "church fair" two nights ago. i had to break up a gang style fight. yes, these kids went to the very same church.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
it really amuses me when people say "the power of prayer". what they are really doing is talking to their self. it's almost as if they are meditating. being a believer in one's self, it is my opinion, if you think you can (and give it all your strength), then much of what you want to achieve, is entirely possible.

let's say you pray that you need a job. what do you do first? well, let's put out some resume's. then make some phone calls. maybe being out of work gives you an opportunity to go back to school. did praying do all of these things? no, you did. by "praying" you formulated a plan of action and set goals. you did it, not some divine intervention. what's the motivation? fear. fear of losing your house, car, self respect.

mind over matter. the brain is a powerful organ.
Prayer shouldn't be about what we want. as in it isn't about gimmie this, and gimmie that, and gimmie one of those..... etc

to truly grasp the "power of prayer" People need to get over their selfishness, demanding, self centered attitudes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob HSG View Post
Belief is the suspension of reason. As Stevie Wonder sang, "If you believe in things you don't understand, you'll suffer. Superstion's not the way."
Could not also the reverse be said...

If you disbelieve in things you don't understand, you'll suffer.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzz_Man View Post
The guilt that's heaped upon the closed minds of "believers" is from a man made conception of deity that is completely illogical, horribly mean & stupid, and this message is often shouted by preachers who use ancient mind controlling tactics to keep their flock close at hand.

It's over, it's done, and I can truly understand the obvious sour grapes attitude from the believers perspective.
So you have a sour grape outlook on what man has turned religion into. I just don't know how to approach someone that was raised as a believer, yet turns their back on God, based on what other men do or did.
If you was a 'true' believer then your belief is between you and God.

To me a believer isn't defined by saying yes God exist, and by them going to church every week. Or even defined by actions.
a Believer is one who has accepted Christ dying on the cross for their sins, accepting that forgiveness, and asking God to come into their life and lead them and guide them.

Obviously in your description of your life as a so called believer, you didn't turn to God for comfort, direction...... instead you let 'man' stress you out.
I am going to guess that you had the outward appearance of the lifestyle of a believer.... yet you never really had the personal relationship and commitment of a Believer. Of course this isn't a judgment but rather an observation and an opinion. And most importantly Food for thought for those that declare themselves open minded.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:46 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
Salvation from the fear of death?
Actually for a Christian it is salvation from the penalty of sin......
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:49 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Prayer shouldn't be about what we want. as in it isn't about gimmie this, and gimmie that, and gimmie one of those..... etc

to truly grasp the "power of prayer" People need to get over their selfishness, demanding, self centered attitudes.



Could not also the reverse be said...

If you disbelieve in things you don't understand, you'll suffer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
So you have a sour grape outlook on what man has turned religion into. I just don't know how to approach someone that was raised as a believer, yet turns their back on God, based on what other men do or did.
If you was a 'true' believer then your belief is between you and God.

To me a believer isn't defined by saying yes God exist, and by them going to church every week. Or even defined by actions.
a Believer is one who has accepted Christ dying on the cross for their sins, accepting that forgiveness, and asking God to come into their life and lead them and guide them.

Obviously in your description of your life as a so called believer, you didn't turn to God for comfort, direction...... instead you let 'man' stress you out.
I am going to guess that you had the outward appearance of the lifestyle of a believer.... yet you never really had the personal relationship and commitment of a Believer. Of course this isn't a judgment but rather an observation and an opinion. And most importantly Food for thought for those that declare themselves open minded.
The Gospel, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....so helped by GOD thru Jesus.....Amen.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:51 PM
Enjoy Life B4U Die!
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United States, GA, Powder Springs
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
So you have a sour grape outlook on what man has turned religion into.
For those who can actually READ my posts and who can COMPREHEND what I said (which, I believe is very clear) I made the claim that religion is man made. Please go back and review the unedited remarks, then if you have a question that's actually relevant to my comments, then try again.

Thanks
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:57 PM
Enjoy Life B4U Die!
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Obviously in your description of your life as a so called believer, you didn't turn to God for comfort, direction...... instead you let 'man' stress you out.
I am going to guess that you had the outward appearance of the lifestyle of a believer.... yet you never really had the personal relationship and commitment of a Believer. Of course this isn't a judgment but rather an observation and an opinion. And most importantly Food for thought for those that declare themselves open minded.
Dude, your self proclaimed "opinion" of my life is as close to being correct as believing that Paris Hilton is a virgin.

Almost funny how you pull assumptions from . . . somewhere I'm not familiar with, that's for sure, but if that's satisfying for you to shoot in the dark, blindfolded, with only blanks, then go for it.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 05:03 PM
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maine
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
you get in THIS world. as far as not seeing any cops, do you realize just because their not wearing a uniform doesn't mean they are not on duty. did you ever consider there might be "undercover cops" roaming around? open your eyes to reality and stop being cloaked by some religion.

i went to a "church fair" two nights ago. i had to break up a gang style fight. yes, these kids went to the very same church.



You know, maybe we're just still lucky up here!

I know what I saw and felt, this was in small town america. with other small towns nearby showing up to it! If there was a cop he/she was there enjoying the fair!

Why are we and especially our young ones becoming so violent? Is it what they see on TV or the video games/computer they so cherish, that tells them this behavior is acceptable...
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