Just logged on and was really surprised at the depth of discussion on the subject. Also pleased at the generally civil tone.

I've tried to digest all the posts and a few points jumped out at me.
Leccy mentioned something about Christians looking forward to non believers suffering torment and damnation (or words to that effect) and sadly some who are or claim to be Christians are guilty of this. It is Gods wish that none should perish (2 Peter-3:9) and as Christians that should be ours also.
Buzz mentioned his Mother in Law who says she is a Christian, yet is doing an impression of a human wrecking ball on his stuff. Christians are just people who can act poorly and foolishly just like anyone else. The well worn expression that Christians are not perfect, just forgiven really does hit the nail on the head.
I will pray that Buzzes Ma In Law grows in the Lord.
We all fall short of the glory of God. Please feel free to use me as an example of proof of that.

One thing that seems to be an overall theme in most posts, everyone has a belief or view of one sort or another on this issue.
It kind of reminds me of something said by W.C. Fields:
"Everyone has to believe in something, I believe I will have another beer."

Which reminds me of another of his quotes.
He was found reading a Bible on his death bed (liver failure) and was asked "what are you doing?"
His answer, "looking for loopholes."

There are no loopholes.

Originally Posted by mikefast

And you don't think that God is? I have been a Christian since my very early teens. I've had more answers to prayer than I really deserved. One example. in 1983 I lost my job because of the oil slump in Houston. My wife and I had had a small vacation planned, so we went on it. On the way back, I picked up my phone and called home to see if we had any messages on my house phone. There were two job offers, one a part time, and one a full time. Jobs were harder to get then in Houston than they are now. When I got home, I took both jobs. Another time when my faith really helped was when I was diagnosed with cancer. After prayer with my wife, I just felt everything was going to be alright. I have been cancer free for 15 years. And, a little over 12 years ago when I lost my first wife, I had the assurance that I would see her again. That helped me a lot. Everybody has the choice to believe or not. As for me, I think the choice is obvious.

Similar story here.
Accepted Christ in early adulthood and my walk has had up and downs like most.
I thank God every day that I do not have what I deserve.

Originally Posted by Real Ira

Just logged on and was really surprised at the depth of discussion on the subject. Also pleased at the generally civil tone.

I've tried to digest all the posts and a few points jumped out at me.
Leccy mentioned something about Christians looking forward to non believers suffering torment and damnation (or words to that effect) and sadly some who are or claim to be Christians are guilty of this. It is Gods wish that none should perish (2 Peter-3:9) and as Christians that should be ours also.
Buzz mentioned his Mother in Law who says she is a Christian, yet is doing an impression of a human wrecking ball on his stuff. Christians are just people who can act poorly and foolishly just like anyone else. The well worn expression that Christians are not perfect, just forgiven really does hit the nail on the head.
I will pray that Buzzes Ma In Law grows in the Lord.
We all fall short of the glory of God. Please feel free to use me as an example of proof of that.

One thing that seems to be an overall theme in most posts, everyone has a belief or view of one sort or another on this issue.
It kind of reminds me of something said by W.C. Fields:
"Everyone has to believe in something, I believe I will have another beer."

Which reminds me of another of his quotes.
He was found reading a Bible on his death bed (liver failure) and was asked "what are you doing?"
His answer, "looking for loopholes."

There are no loopholes.

Save for the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Originally Posted by LcJ

Save for the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

For some reason most non believers just don't see that as a loophole.

There are literally thousands of gods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities

They come in every flavor.

Now, what is the real difference between atheists and believers? Atheists only believe in one less god than believers do. One less only, out of thousands.
And this one less god is supposed to make a difference?

Originally Posted by Julez

There are literally thousands of gods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities

They come in every flavor.

Now, what is the real difference between atheists and believers? Atheists only believe in one less god than believers do. One less only, out of thousands.
And this one less god is supposed to make a difference?

You can make anything your god.
God does not like it when people do that.

Originally Posted by Julez

There are literally thousands of gods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities

They come in every flavor.

Now, what is the real difference between atheists and believers? Atheists only believe in one less god than believers do. One less only, out of thousands.
And this one less god is supposed to make a difference?

Yep. It's an observation that has been made before and it's just about spot on.

Originally Posted by LcJ

I also have a few bridges and some property that I will sell you. Or for a modest fee, a share of Auntie Crapper's toilet fortune!" Either would be as good as the salvation that I could provide.

Well, Lyle - it's good then that I ask for neither your bridges, property... or salvation!

Yeah, not really a loophole.

I was raised Christian, lost faith at 11 when ma passed, and found it again 20 years later...not the Christian faith, or any other, just my own.
Found it through the power of prayer. That power is undeniable.

Originally Posted by mikefast

And you don't think that God is? I have been a Christian since my very early teens. I've had more answers to prayer than I really deserved. One example. in 1983 I lost my job because of the oil slump in Houston. My wife and I had had a small vacation planned, so we went on it. On the way back, I picked up my phone and called home to see if we had any messages on my house phone. There were two job offers, one a part time, and one a full time. Jobs were harder to get then in Houston than they are now. When I got home, I took both jobs. Another time when my faith really helped was when I was diagnosed with cancer. After prayer with my wife, I just felt everything was going to be alright. I have been cancer free for 15 years. And, a little over 12 years ago when I lost my first wife, I had the assurance that I would see her again. That helped me a lot. Everybody has the choice to believe or not. As for me, I think the choice is obvious.

Mikefast,

Sincerely, I'm very pleased for you! No-one of any sense, or humanity would knock the pleasure or comfort that someone gets from their faith.

I believe various things (as I pointed out in an earlier append I think we all have to believe in something) but don't require the agreement of everyone elses beliefs to feel good about myself.

Neither does it prevent me from being what I hope is a 'good' person - especially as I'm not working towards my 'salvation'.

So, I'm doing and feeling good - and I'm pleased to hear you are as well!

Working towards salivation..................oh salvation - sorry!

(I like my idea best...)!

A friend of mine invited those that were interested to his Facebook to read his atheist views if they were interested. When I asked if the purpose was debate he said no, only like minded individuals.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

Neither does it prevent me from being what I hope is a 'good' person - especially as I'm not working towards my 'salvation'.

who is it, that you think is working towards their salvation?

Salvation from the fear of death?

My wife is a Christian and believes she is saved.... as do I but I claim no religious salvation... I've no fear of death, it is one of life's natural events.

We are both saved from the fear of death but in different ways.