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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:19 AM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin richards View Post
That is truly a "quaint" post.
It was a poor attempt at trolling, no more or less.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
It was a poor attempt at trolling, no more or less.
And your last post a poor attempt at moderating... no more.. now much less.
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Last edited by Bilbobaker; Aug 18, 2010 at 03:26 AM. Reason: Just helping Brian.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:21 AM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
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Originally Posted by Bilbobaker View Post
And your post a poor attempt and being a moderator no more much less.
I'm not a moderator, Bill and, as so often, your post makes no sense.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:25 AM
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Did that edit help you with your sense?
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
So that is you, you get your morals from the teachings from Jesus.

For all the others that scoff at religion, God, The bible.... where do they get their morals from? what do they base them on?

You are making this out to be no/poor/better....

I am simply saying that atheist who only believe in man, gets their morals from somewhere. And just where is that? from man? mankind as a whole, which equates to society?

I.E. the talk about the government rationing health care... more than one person responded with the attitude of so what, the Ins. companies do it too. Like that justifies the state doing it?

I.E. Obama spending Trillions like it doesn't matter. We get Bush did it too!!

see the pattern? Presidential candidates lie during their campaign, and the excuse/justification is that is what they do, that is what they all do.

So you protest my statements as projection. Fine.... you get your morals from the teachings of Jesus. where do the rest of atheist get there morals or right/wrongs from? Man? Jesus was a man , but many also believe that Jesus was God. To reject God is to say that Jesus was nothing more than a man. To start nit picking Jesus's teachings throwing out what one wants to believe and what not to believe.. where is the limit? Who decides what teachings to keep, and what teachings to toss?

I call it Dog eat Dog as all men are equal... yet if man sets the morals. Who gets to pick which man is top dog and has the last word on what is right? and what is wrong? or is it a society wide thing of what is right and what is wrong?

A higher power sets the morals we live by

Or is it Man ?
The golden rule pre-dates Jesus. I have no problem with the fact that he promoted it.
I don't get my morals from society. Laws come from society, morals from my own rationality. All I need for my morals is to recognise a fellow human as having similar wants and needs as myself. Once I accept this then it is straightforward.
When Jesus says "all men are equal" I add "and women too".
When Jesus throws out the moneylenders I think, "well, are the interest rates fair? do they insure against bad debt? who allowed them to operate in the temple in the first place? was it the custodians of the temple? did they charge a fee to allow the moneylenders to operate in the temple?"
When Jesus fed the 5 thousand I see this as a parable on sharing. A good friend of mine uses this as an example of why Jesus was a Communist. Yes, he is a staunch Christian and Communist.

I don't reject God as I don't believe in God. This is not a choice. To pretend to believe in God would be trying to brainwash myself.

I don't get to choose my morals based on a particular situation. e.g. I don't get to steal because I can't be bothered doing the work required to obtain something. I don't get to steal because I would not like it if someone stole from me. This empathy can be applied to all moral decisions.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:32 AM
All under control, Grommit!
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Originally Posted by mortato View Post
The golden rule pre-dates Jesus. I have no problem with the fact that he promoted it.
I don't get my morals from society. Laws come from society, morals from my own rationality. All I need for my morals is to recognise a fellow human as having similar wants and needs as myself. Once I accept this then it is straightforward.
When Jesus says "all men are equal" I add "and women too".
When Jesus throws out the moneylenders I think, "well, are the interest rates fair? do they insure against bad debt? who allowed them to operate in the temple in the first place? was it the custodians of the temple? did they charge a fee to allow the moneylenders to operate in the temple?"
When Jesus fed the 5 thousand I see this as a parable on sharing. A good friend of mine uses this as an example of why Jesus was a Communist. Yes, he is a staunch Christian and Communist.

I don't reject God as I don't believe in God. This is not a choice. To pretend to believe in God would be trying to brainwash myself.

I don't get to choose my morals based on a particular situation. e.g. I don't get to steal because I can't be bothered doing the work required to obtain something. I don't get to steal because I would not like it if someone stole from me. This empathy can be applied to all moral decisions.
Good answer and a well reasoned means of looking at the subject.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Well I'll grant you - Chimpanzees are social animals too
The hippies of the chimpamzee world, the bonobos, seem to have made it work even better
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mortato View Post
This empathy can be applied to all moral decisions.
So on the moral choice of abortion, Would you extend this golden rule to the unborn child? That they might be given the opportunity to return the Do unto me.....

Quote:
"The Golden Rule is arguably the most essential basis for the modern concept of human rights, in which each individual has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. A key element of the Golden Rule is that a person attempting to live by this rule treats all people, not just members of his or her in-group, with consideration."
My point is simple..... Men will always bend and mold the rules to suit their purpose on whim.

I would post pictures of aborted fetuses (for those that do not think an unborn child is not yet a child), but it is not worth being reported. IMO so silly that Men who think it is their own morals that choose right and wrong , yet refuse or don't wish to see the end results of their own developed morals.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:57 AM
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In the case of abortion, most posters here would find it difficult to have feelings of empathy with the person carrying the foetus. How many posting here have ever been pregnant?
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by martin richards View Post
In the case of abortion, most posters here would find it difficult to have feelings of empathy with the person carrying the foetus. How many posting here have ever been pregnant?
Are you willing to apply that 'thought' towards all people for all moral choices?
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by martin richards View Post
In the case of abortion, most posters here would find it difficult to have feelings of empathy with the person carrying the foetus. How many posting here have ever been pregnant?
Does one need to be pregnant to make an observation or form an educated opinion?
I think not.
Anyone here killed someone? Killed many?
Smoked crack?
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Are you willing to apply that 'thought' towards all people for all moral choices?
I am
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bilbobaker View Post
And your last post a poor attempt at moderating... no more.. now much less.
Bill, it was not a poor attempt at trolling on your part.

The Trolling here was the calling your post a 'poor attempt at trolling'
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
I am
Bush included?

rut row..................
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Bush included?

rut row..................
Yup - if it's personal and doesn't affect me
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