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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:14 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,674 Posts
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Originally Posted by Viper Pilot View Post
Once again you do not understand belief. I am motivated by HOPE, not fear. Only those who don't have Christ should be motivated by fear.
Do you think that Jews should be motivated by fear?
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:17 PM
Against it with you
Sprydle's Avatar
Houston, TX
Joined Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by Viper Pilot View Post
Once again you do not understand belief. I am motivated by HOPE, not fear. Only those who don't have Christ should be motivated by fear.
Rubbish. You stated that you believe because not to believe would mean an eternity of suffering.

That says 2 things.
1) You are motivated by fear
2) The god you describe is a psychopath, who would create someone, fully knowing that they will not meet his standard, and then torture them for eternity for not meeting that standard.

There are plenty of other versions of your god that are not psycho's - Kenny believes in a version that is nothing but loving. I can respect that.

A god who would torture his own creations for eternity for being the way he created them on the other hand is psychotic, hateful and spiteful - very human foibles, but given that the bible was written by men, and interpreted by men, that is hardly surprising.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Viper Pilot View Post
Once again you do not understand belief. I am motivated by HOPE, not fear. Only those who don't have Christ should be motivated by fear.
It is fine that you are motivated by hope, but what that suggest is that you are not content with the reality of this life and again that is fine for your needs.

What however possesses you to think that others are just like you and ought to also need hope? There are many who are fully content to live in the reality of this life and need no hope for something different.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:27 PM
God is good
Viper Pilot's Avatar
Banjul
Joined Jan 2001
4,246 Posts
...You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you - Ezekial 28:12-15

Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings. By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries - Ezekial 28:16-18

...I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High - Isaiah 14:13,14
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:30 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
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Ezekiel - that's Erik von Danniken's favourite book in the Bible, lots of weird spaceman-like stuff in there apparently.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:32 PM
ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι
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Last edited by Gerald; Nov 16, 2010 at 12:26 PM.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:32 PM
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WI
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
It is fine that you are motivated by hope, but what that suggest is that you are not content with the reality of this life and again that is fine for your needs.

What however possesses you to think that others are just like you and ought to also need hope? There are many who are fully content to live in the reality of this life and need no hope for something different.
In all fairness I think many non-believers also share hope. Hope of finding out more about their environment through the study of science. There is a natural desire to find out what life is all about. People basically seem to be split between being naturally or spiritually motivated in their conquest. Some of us end up being torn between the two.
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Last edited by Tipover; Sep 23, 2010 at 01:45 PM.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:35 PM
Against it with you
Sprydle's Avatar
Houston, TX
Joined Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
Ezekiel - that's Erik von Danniken's favourite book in the Bible, lots of weird spaceman-like stuff in there apparently.
He had a cool song written about him too:

Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
I hear the word of the Lord.

Dry Bones from The Singing Detective (2 min 46 sec)
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:36 PM
God is good
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Banjul
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprydle View Post
Rubbish. You stated that you believe because not to believe would mean an eternity of suffering.

That says 2 things.
1) You are motivated by fear
2) The god you describe is a psychopath, who would create someone, fully knowing that they will not meet his standard, and then torture them for eternity for not meeting that standard.

There are plenty of other versions of your god that are not psycho's - Kenny believes in a version that is nothing but loving. I can respect that.

A god who would torture his own creations for eternity for being the way he created them on the other hand is psychotic, hateful and spiteful - very human foibles, but given that the bible was written by men, and interpreted by men, that is hardly surprising.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:3

Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. - Matthew 25:34
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:38 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipover View Post
In all fairness I think many non-believers also share hope. Hope of finding out more about their environment through study of science. There is a natural desire to find out what life is all about. People seem to be more-less natural or spiritually motivated in their conquest. Some of us a torn between the two.
There's nothing that states that one cannot be very spiritual indeed, without having a belief in god(s).

Empathy with one's fellow man, faith in one's fellow man and hope for the human race are all very accessible and very viable parts of the lives of all, whether they are believers in god(s) or not and especially whether or not they hold to the tenets or teaching of any organised religion.

"You're all individuals!"
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:40 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by Viper Pilot View Post
Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. - Matthew 25:34
Okay, that last one does at least prove that Elvis actually is dead, and, presumably that he was a centrist.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:40 PM
Against it with you
Sprydle's Avatar
Houston, TX
Joined Feb 2006
80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper Pilot View Post
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:3

Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. - Matthew 25:34
Which of course in no way addresses anything whatsoever.

I hear the cheese-makers are blessed too.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:41 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprydle View Post
He had a cool song written about him too:

Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
I hear the word of the Lord.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bNH5pfcLWE
Dennis Potter was bonkers, wasn't he? Some fantastic toons and great imagery though.

Thanks for posting that
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:50 PM
God is good
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Banjul
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
Okay, that last one does at least prove that Elvis actually is dead, and, presumably that he was a centrist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprydle
Which of course in no way addresses anything whatsoever.
So ridicule is how "intelligent" people argue. Over and over again.

Who is tolerant of other people beliefs?
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 01:51 PM
Against it with you
Sprydle's Avatar
Houston, TX
Joined Feb 2006
80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
Dennis Potter was bonkers, wasn't he? Some fantastic toons and great imagery though.

Thanks for posting that
Eccentric and odd for sure, not sure he was bonkers though. I really liked some of his stuff - The Singing Detective really stands out. Great tunes.
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