Complete Guide to LiPo Batteries and Failure Reports - Part II.

hoppy · 10:16 AM

Part I - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187

GENERAL INFORMATION FOR ELECTRIC FLYERS

Everydayflyer's LIPO RULES - Lipo Management
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330647

TJinTech.s Pages - Information on:
Basic Electri RC info
RC Wiring Diagrams and such
Electric Flight How-Tos
http://sites.google.com/site/tjinguy...arging-how-tos

Very Complete Information Article.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31071
.pdf format
or
http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/index.shtml

The Basics of Electric RC Aircraft - Staples - INCOMPLETE!.pd
http://electricrcaircraftguru.blogsp...ane-setup.html

How to Choose a Power System
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...00&postcount=1

Battery University-
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/

Conplete Guide to Lithium Polymer Batteries - Jim McPherson
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...99&postcount=1

Beginners Guide to Motor and Prop Selection (NoFlyZone)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1136470

hoppy · 08:19 AM

hoppy · 04:42 PM

How To Threads:

Improved simple auto disconnector for battery charging/testing
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1131817

Build a $3 Wattmeter:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...harbor+freight

hoppy · 10:14 AM

hoppy · 07:22 AM

LIPO LITERATURE

http://www.powerstream.com/lithuim-i...ge-voltage.htm
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/41531.pdf
http://www.aqmd.gov/tao/conferencesw...hty-Sandia.pdf
http://powerelectronics.com/site-fil...ttery-life.pdf
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries
http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap4-page9.asp
http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm
http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap10-page6.asp
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=11
http://www.gbrcaa.org/ntoa/Li%20Poly%20Review%201.htm
http://www.huret.com/overview.pdf
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
http://corrosion-doctors.org/Seconda...i-ion-reac.htm
http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/09-55.pdf
http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal20...ONE2011_17.pdf
http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/availa...ssertation.pdf
http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm#dod
http://www.mpoweruk.com/battery_manufacturing.htm
http://144.206.159.178/ft/641/92454/1607530.pdf
http://www.powerstream.com/lithuim-i...ge-voltage.htm
http://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vie...asa-technical-
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA527711
http://lancair.net/lists/lml/Message...ery%20Life.pdf
http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_pac...ymer_tech.html
Pack swelling on discharge - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...90286/abstract
Why batteries puff - http://barnson.org/node/1842
What's wrong with LiIon - http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blo...mion-ba-1.html
LENR Failures - http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglars...iesjan-23-2013

Loganza · Sep 21, 2010, 11:24 PM

I have 2 different types of battery packs and im not sure on how to charge them. i have an Astroflight lithium charger with the astroflight power supply. what im not sure about is what amperage setting do i use for these 2 different batteries? is there an equation i can use in the future to determine what amp setting to use?

1. pro lite V2 2100 mAh 3s 11.1v thunderpower pack 20C continuous/40C burst

2. Eflite 11.1V 3200mAh 3s 15C continuous

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.

hoppy · Sep 22, 2010, 07:35 AM

Most common charge current is 1C.

Take the mah capacity of the battery and divide by 1000. This gives you the
1C charge current in amps.

2100mah/1000 = 2.1A charge current (1C)
3200mah/1000 = 3.2A charge current (1C)

If the battery pack allows a 2C charge current multiply the 1C current by 2.
If 1C = 2.1A charge current, 2C would be 4.2A charge current.

nigelsheffield · Nov 06, 2010, 09:18 AM

made big mistake today and charged 2 cell on 3 cell setting realized when cell volts were 4.56v each, cells were loongmax tipple and were stone cold and after discharging back to 4.2v they flew my plane just as normal. 1st time iever done this in 5 years of electric rc planes. I gues the newer cells are more stable now but please do not try this, I consider myself very lucky to have got away with it.
Wonder what voltage they would go up to b4 catching fire though----anyone care to try?

lebus1 · Nov 06, 2010, 10:31 AM

I have a problem of uneven discharging of my 4s batteries connected in a series. I have rechecked the soldering on the series connectors (eflite manufactured) and that changed nothing. I tried replacing one of the batteries in the pack and that changed nothing. I have rotated the batteries in the pack and that changed nothing. All batteries are charged full to 4.2 or slightly less. When I test run my motor I draw down 2000 mAH from two 5000 mAH batteries connected in a series. When I recharge them one typically charges to 2700 mAH and the other 1700 mAH. I am pulling close to 50 amps @ wot (about 1500 watts). This test usually takes 2 min 20 - 30 sec to complete. If I were to run to LVC I will ruin at least one 4s battery (I've done it already). I am running out of ideas on how to correct this. Please advise. Thanks DB

hoppy · Nov 06, 2010, 02:41 PM

You are correct in thinking something is amiss here. What's happening cannot be happening but it is.

Couple of questions.
What is the voltage of each pack 1 hour after charging?
What is the voltage of each pack 15 min after the test has ended?

Can you measure individual cell voltages? That would be more informative than total pack voltages.

50000ma draw/5000mah pack = 10 C-rate
60 min/10C-rate = 6 min operation.
So 2.5min/6 min = 0.42
0.42 x 5000mah = 2100mah which is close to what you are reporting.

Are you using 2 different chargers?

The voltages asked for will tell a lot.

lebus1 · Nov 06, 2010, 06:00 PM

I am using two chargers and the top limit is different. One tops out at 4.19/cell and the other is 4.23 / cell. I did recharge the lower reading battery in the higher charging charger to "even" them out. The difference between battery's after that procedure is approximatley 800 mAH. Still too much to fly that way. I haven't checked voltages after a test run because I was testing, charging, testing etc. I can do that in the next round. These are 20c 5000 mAH Turnegy batteries all new never used. I will rerun my tests and will record indiviual cell voltages as well. I can report individual voltages when I retest maybe later tonight. Thanks DB

davecrash · Nov 06, 2010, 07:26 PM

Which chargers are you using. Some can have the peak adjusted.

hoppy · Nov 06, 2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lebus1

I am using two chargers and the top limit is different. One tops out at 4.19/cell and the other is 4.23 / cell. I did recharge the lower reading battery in the higher charging charger to "even" them out. The difference between battery's after that procedure is approximatley 800 mAH. Still too much to fly that way. I haven't checked voltages after a test run because I was testing, charging, testing etc. I can do that in the next round. These are 20c 5000 mAH Turnegy batteries all new never used. I will rerun my tests and will record indiviual cell voltages as well. I can report individual voltages when I retest maybe later tonight. Thanks DB

OK,
4.23V is over the recommended max charge voltage for lipo cells. If that voltage is correct, I would replace that charger.
4.2V and lower is OK. Lower full charge voltages giver longer cycle lives.
Charging to 4.1V/cell substantially increases cycle life.

It would be higher desirable that the voltages were measured with a DVM or other device separate from the charger so that all voltages are made with the same measuring device.

Voltage before charging for each cell.
Voltage after charging for each cell.
MAH in for each pack.

lebus1 · Nov 06, 2010, 08:07 PM

The chargers are iMax B8+ and an E-flite EFLC506. Neither have voltage adjustment features. The iMax B8+ charges to the 4.20-4.23. The E-flite maxes at 4.13 - 4.17. I have a Hobby King battery Medic which will read individual cells and balancer (use for storage prep). The voltages match what I am seeing on the chargers though.

hoppy · Nov 06, 2010, 09:10 PM

Always one more data request....

Do you have a DVM to check all the voltages with?

Aug 05, 2010, 10:36 AM	#1
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	Complete Guide to LiPo Batteries and Failure Reports - Part II. Part I - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187 GENERAL INFORMATION FOR ELECTRIC FLYERS Everydayflyer's LIPO RULES - Lipo Management http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330647 TJinTech.s Pages - Information on: Basic Electri RC info RC Wiring Diagrams and such Electric Flight How-Tos http://sites.google.com/site/tjinguy...arging-how-tos Very Complete Information Article. http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31071 .pdf format or http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/index.shtml The Basics of Electric RC Aircraft - Staples - INCOMPLETE!.pd http://electricrcaircraftguru.blogsp...ane-setup.html How to Choose a Power System http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...00&postcount=1 Battery University- http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ Conplete Guide to Lithium Polymer Batteries - Jim McPherson http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...99&postcount=1 Beginners Guide to Motor and Prop Selection (NoFlyZone) http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1136470
	Last edited by hoppy; Mar 20, 2013 at 10:16 AM.

Aug 05, 2010, 10:38 AM	#2
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	Lipo Informational Threads Some threads I have found useful to me. Videos of Lipo Cells/Pack overcharged till cells ignited http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0570423705609# http://www.rchelisite.com/lipo_batte...fety_guide.php Videos of LiPo Container Tests. ....Battery containment tests by UtahFlyers: http://www.utahflyers.org/video-main...1-lipo-fires-1 ...Lipo Sack Test http://www.liposack.com/video.htm ...Ammo Box Test 4s3p6000 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355739 ...Brinks Box test - 3s3270 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316210 ...Test of 500g lipo in a owner designed box. Post #6 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620298 ...Test of a 3s2100mah pack in a cash box. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=33 Test of a Lipo in a Sealed Box. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1827 Why Not to Puncture LiPo's http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...75&postcount=1 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...38&postcount=4 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=15 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=33 The Hows and Whys of Pack Balancing: A complete guide on how and why to balance LiPo packs written by BEC. Covers everything from A to Z. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599287 p=3320890&postcount=29[/url] Parallel Charging Balancing: (RD Blakeslee) http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388233 Balance/Adaptor Plug Information (everydayflyer) http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=29 Overdischarged battery? Here are some of the recent threads on that subject. I'm sure you will find an answer to your question in one of them. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1072324 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002464 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1072215 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1074106 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1072181 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002464 How Many Amps Can I Draw from my Battery? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...(everydayflyer) Disposal Instructions for Damaged Lipo: https://sites.google.com/site/tjingu.../lipo-disposal http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=27 Parallel charging packs http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=parallel http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Parallel http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Parallel http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=8din Storing Lipo's http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...95&postcount=5 http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-19.htm http://www.motorola.com/testservices/article1.htm http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=11 Low Votage Cutoff (LVC) http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...68&postcount=1 (everydayflyer) To rough check the LVC setting you are using, if the voltage is less than 3.7V/cell 20 min after flying, increase the LVC setting. If it is above 3.7V, decrease the LVC setting or leave it where it is if you are happy with the flight time. This is a rough check and you'll need to check pack temperature and capacity used to make sure the LVC is not set to low. How to read CBA graphs- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...89&postcount=2 (everydayflyer) How Much Capacity Is Left In My Pack? By measuring the pack voltage, a rough capacity check can be made. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...57&postcount=7 What is the Usable Capacity? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628397 Parallel and Series Battery Wiring Diagrams http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_lipo.html Life History of a Bent Pack http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=733512 Protecting Mini Deans Connectors http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ni+deans+hoppy Changing from a 2s to a 3s Lipo Pack - What you should know. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...05&postcount=4 Thoughts on the Safety of Charging Lipos Indoors - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ed#post5708198 A123 Battery Information + Battery Comparison Voltages http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/lithium-a123.htm Did that short hurt my battery pack? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post23190305
	Last edited by hoppy; Mar 11, 2013 at 08:19 AM.

Aug 09, 2010, 11:48 AM	#3
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	How To Threads: Improved simple auto disconnector for battery charging/testing http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1131817 Build a $3 Wattmeter: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...harbor+freight
	Last edited by hoppy; Aug 13, 2010 at 04:42 PM.

Aug 12, 2010, 05:17 PM	#4
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	Reported lipo fires Posts that have been seen referencing a lipo cell catching fire have been listed. This list certainly does not contain all the incidents and a statistical analysis would be meaningless. It does however show that the warnings presented for lipo cells are not just legaleeze but warnings that should be heeded to prevent possible personal harm and/or property damage. 1. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...93#post1625193 2. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&pagenumber=18 3. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...37#post1531337 4. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...99#post1531599 5. http://www.bayrc.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=226 6. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...postid=1478616 7. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...fire+explosion 8. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ght=lexus+fire 9. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=funtana+fire 10. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=rocket 11. http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/ubbth...b=5&o=&fpart=1 12. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 13. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=160086 14. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=160079 15. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=160551 16. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 17. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 18. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 19. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 20. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 21. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 22. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 23. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...402#post806402 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=lipo+fire 24. http://www.hornet-heli.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003428.html 25. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=explosion 26. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...95#post1243595 27. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...90#post1571890 28. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...30#post1581630 29. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.a...325&tostyle=tm 30. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...129#post844129 31. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...29#post1553429 32. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...65#post1658165 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=185530 33. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...34#post1699734 34. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...91#post1731091 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...15#post1731915 35. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.a...352&tostyle=tm 36. http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/42232...%20trouble.htm http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...31#post1761331 Charging crashed pack caused pack unbalance problems - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...03#post1767503 37. Pack catches on fire after crash - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...34#post1779434 38. Possible short – undamaged pack catches fire -http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1810304#post1810304 39. Battery shorts and burns during shrink wrapping - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...08#post1399608 Lipo Fire Video’s http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...15#post1394715 http://www.rcstuff.us/battery/lipo/lipo_DNA.html http://www.helihobby.com/videos/LithiumBattery.wmv http://www.utahflyers.org/movies/Lipofires.wmv (40) Battery catches fire, wrong charging voltage - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...22#post1898922 (41) First charge of pack - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=180434 (42) Pack shorted on bench - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=206095 (43) $30,000 house damage – charger error - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...90#post1816790 (44) 2s charged at 11.1V burns - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...47#post1844047 (45) Pack Shorted putting connector on and burns - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=209532 (46) 3s Pack burns at correct charger settings - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=209767 Picture of burned bench – German site - http://www.modellflugjugend.de/archiv/user/lipo2.jpg (47) 2s charged at 3s goes boom in garage - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=100803 (48) Shorted pack burns hole in BMW seat - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...86#post1199486 (49) 2s charged as 3s ignites in house - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=rocket (50) Crash causes 3s to short and burn http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...82#post1863182 (52) 2s charging at 3s causes fire in garage - http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...light=fire+lipo (53) 8000 3s pack catches fire at correct settings - http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...light=fire+lipo (54) Pack catches fire after charging for 15 min - http://www.rotory.com/ubbthreads/sh...o=&fpart=1&vc=1 (55) Pack catches fire using automatic charger - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=15 (56) Pack catches fire using automatic charger - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...46&postcount=1 (57) Helicopter fire - http://runryder.com/helicopter/t82226/?goto=newpost (58) LiIon pack rockets across room: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=11 (59) Dented Pack Catches fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...56&postcount=3 (60) Lipo in closed car catches fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241627 (61) Wrong cell count fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...97&postcount=3 (62) Wrong cell count fire – http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=1 (63) Battery catches fire in car seat while charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248194 (64) Battery catches fire when plane crashes - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256098 (65) Battery catches fire after crash: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=12 (66) Battery ignites in under 10min on charger - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...59&postcount=1 (67) Damaged battery catches fire during charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...34&postcount=5 (68) LiPo Pack catches fire even tho immersed in salt water - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261922 (69) Lipo ignition causes house fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...50&postcount=4 (70) Pack catches fire for no apparent reason during charge - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=34 (71) Pack at 1V charged and catches fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263600 (72) Battery catches fire during charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...21&postcount=1 (73) Helicopter burns - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266337 (74) 3s Pack ignites during charge - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266875 (75) House fire reported in Belgium - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=24 CHECK OUT (76) Plane burns during charge - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=47 (77) Puffed pack ignites during charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...64#post2560964 (78) 2s pack connected in parallel to 3s pack ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274028 (79) Ballooned Pack Burns when punchured - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274557 (80) 7s pack catches fire during flight - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296507 (81) House fire – 3rd story burns - http://runryder.com/helicopter/t145397p1/ (82) Lipo catchs fire during charge on 109 charger. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307806 (83) 3s Lipo catches fire at correct settings. http://rcgroups.com/gallery/showphot...cat=500&page=1 (84) 2s pack starts house fire- reason unknown - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311323 (85) Pack catches fire after a short short - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...13#post3044752 (86) Charging slightly swelled pack causes fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...77&postcount=4 (87) Nicked cell catches fire - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/LiPo...tm.htm#2366986 (88) Li Ion cells ignite from charging mistake - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/LiPo...tm.htm#2427714 (89) Battery ejected from crashed plane burns - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289255 (90) Battery involved in crash ignites several weeks later - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273490 (91) Charging abuse causes fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...35&postcount=7 (92) Pack fire during F3A contest - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=11 (93) Slightly puffed cell catches fire during charging. http:// http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...d.php?t=268523 (94) Lipo burns during attempt to restore overdischarged cell with CC/CV PS - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323693 (95) http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=15 (96) New pack partially burns sitting on desk - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329744 (97) Pack ignites with no known cause - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=31 (98) Pack ignites during charging – equipment in shed corrodes - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=177 and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=187 (99) Lipo burns garage - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=14 (100) Lipo burns like rocket in a can during charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356474 (101) Cell ignites while soldering- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357380 (102) Screw penetrates pack igniting it - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360222 (103) Attempt to recharge “dead pack” causes plane fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...37&postcount=9 (104) Charged 3s (?) ignites while recharging with Astro 109 - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362011 (105) Packs in truck catch fire, burn truck – unexplained - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368758 (106) Battery charging inside of helicopter catches fire in garage. No cause determined. http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t177482p1/ (107) Well used Lipo ignites during charging under correct conditions - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373643 (108) Lipo charged as NiCd burns when the ballooned pouch is punchured - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...10#post3794339 (109) Charging 2s1500 with possible wrong cell count ignites in safe - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...20#post3829205 (110) Packs used in parallel catch fire in flight - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378566 (111) Helicopter crashes – 20 minutes later, lipos burn - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384490 (112) 2 packs at wrong charger settings burn - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384585 (113) Charger unplugged, on restart it went into different mode – lipo burns- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...45&postcount=1 (114) Battery charged in SUV burns vehicle - http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...09&postcount=1 (115) Battery ignites after charging in modelers hand http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...83&postcount=1 (116) Nicked pack “explodes in hand” http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=155 (117) Charging slightly puffed lipo causes it to ignite in plane. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434713\ (118) Using NiCd setting causes LiPo to burn in garage - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435043 (119) Garage Burns – Cause undetermined - http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm (120) 2 fires in 2 weeks – 109 charger - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=446313 (121) Charging battery in plane fire with 109 – posts 97&99 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443646 (122) Charging 3000mah with Triton catches fire in garage- http://www.one18th.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18104 (123) Pack in plane ignites while being charged under hood of truck - http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2770 (124) Intentionally punctured LiPo burns - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...35&postcount=9 (125) In Flight LiPo Fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460823 (126) Fire under hood while charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463204 (127) Garage burns during charging – possible operator cell count error - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463115 (128) Lipo ignites after flying with too large prop after landing - http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...2&postcount=14 (129) 2 fires from wrong cell count - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...97&postcount=5 (130) Lipo charged on NiCd settings catches fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=14 (131) 3 cases of charger caused (?) fires reported - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473376 (132) Pack goes thermal in pamts pocket - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=20 (133) 5s2p 4000 ignites on first charge - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489495 (134) Pack ignites in car – No reason seen. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...65#post5371633 (135) Pack ignites – high charge voltage - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=25 (136) Lipo ignites in basement during charge - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=519443 (137) Lipo ignites after landing - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_40...tm.htm#4118760 (138) Lipo ignites during charge, continues to burn after thrown in water - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261922 (139) lipo ignites during charge causing house fire. - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...50&postcount=4 (140) Poked Lipo burst into flame - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...38&postcount=4 (141) Lipo charging in Helicopter ignites burning carpet, drapes and Heli - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552619 (142) Too high charge rate burns battery - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556456 (143) Lipo Shorted for 4 sec. 3 min later it burns: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...08&postcount=1 (144) 3s charged as 4s 109 with pictures of burn: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_36...tm.htm#3694610 (145) Undamaged pack burns http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...13&postcount=2 (146) 3s charged as 4s burns SUV (Schulze 6-330d) - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=13 (147) Lipo charging on hood catches fire, cause undetermnined - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614885 (148) Lipo charged on correct settings ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654348 (149) Lipo catches fire after crash damage. - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662396 (150) Lipo fire during charging burns house. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...43&postcount=1 (151) Punctured lipo ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=64 (152) A123 fire during charging – cause unknown - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...99#post8554156 (153) Cause unknown – Battery on benchtop burns http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=779431 (154) Battery ignites after crash - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800629 (155) Battery ignites during flight - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=127 (156) Damaged lipo pack catches fire in flight - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=14 (157) Battery ignites during charge - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=154 (158) House Burns – Lipo charging in garage. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=191 (159) Lipo charging in back of SUV catches fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=199 (160) Lipo catches fire 2 hrs after charging and off charger - http://myhobbycity.com/showthread.php?t=2883 (161) Dog bites lipo – lipo heats up but is dunked before igniting. - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...35&postcount=4 (162) Garage Burns, charging with balancer http://www.3drc.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1137 (163) Another Garage fire - complete loss - fire during charging - http://www.3drc.info/forum/showthread.php?t=888 (164) New battery catches fire – didn't have connectors on it yet. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post10463160 (165) 5 packs being charged burn - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=228 (166) Pack on charger with balancer ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=945715 (167) Pack on balancing charger ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=947656 (168) Pack catches fire when lid closed on leads. http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t473552p1/ (169) Pack on charger causes workshop fire. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=978810 (170) Very new pack with GWS CP -LP charger ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...8#post11861155 (171) Pack puffs on charger – taken outside where it ignites - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=64 (172) Pack gets hot on charger, ignites outside - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=363 (173) Dropped pack catches fire minutes later - http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...3&postcount=28 (174) Lipo catches fire for no apparent reason - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...11&postcount=3 (175) Plane lands after short flight, battery disconnected, battery ignites shortly after - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=373 (176) Battery ignites in plane during charging - http://www.jaxrc.com/forums/showthre...ight=lipo+fire (177) Pack on Display in Hobby Shop catches fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...98&postcount=4 (178) Pack charging in van ignites, burns van - http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t519305p1/ (179) House burns – possible lipo cause - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=430 (180) Lipo shorts/smokes in pocket - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=439 (181) Possible Lipo or charger/wiring house fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1120907 (182) Another House fire - http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/f...tml#post898492 (183) Lipo bursts into flames in plane - http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/f...tml#post898524 (184) Lipo being disassembled bursts into flames - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...php?p=13661301 (185) House fire - Cause unknown - http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...931/-1/FOSNEWS (186) Pushing on pack causes it to ignite - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=598 (187) Lipo burns in plane shortly after being put in plane. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=661 (188) Lipo fire in house destroys planes/camera/mp4 player/etc- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=662 (189) Lipo ignites inside black plane in sun in 97F wx. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=675 (190) Stores burns after Lipo ignites at night - http://www.modellbau-borchert.de/de/...schaden_Neubau (191) Plane crashes and burns - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=791 (192) Charger fails – delivers 20A to pack - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=792 (193) Lipo ignites without apparent cause - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...85&postcount=1 (194) Dropped lipo dents and gets very hot - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=38 (195) Lipo catches fire in garage while charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=953 196 Back of Van damaged when lipo burns while charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=974 197 Lipo burns while charging in kitchen - http://blog.shophde.com/2010/10/12/c...t-recommended/ 198 Lipo burns in garage during charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378325 199 Lipo burns in house during charging - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1407323 200 Pack catches fire in plane - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=13 201 Heli burns for unknown reason - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...04&postcount=1 202 Lipo Burns for no apparent reason - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1098 203 Lipo ignites in hands of modeler trying to toss it outside - http://www.allmyrc.com/forums/blogs/...e-4-27-11.html 204 Partially discharged lipo burns for no apparent reason - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1136 205 Disassembling pack with knife causes ignition - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1481656 206 Small lipo on charge burns modelers hand - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=7954 207 Lost $2000 in gear - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1606 208 House fire - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/f....asp?TID=25069 209 House fire - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1201051 210 5000mah burns in Kitchen, no known cause. http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/main-d...tml#post831920 211 Different s packs connected in parallel http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1924 212 Puffy LIPO catches fire for no apparent reason - http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/main-d...tml#post877508 213 Garage burns from lipo catching fire during charging. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2093 214 Car damaged by Lipo fire while charging. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=1 215 Pack “burns” 2 hr after charging. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2358 216 Pack ignites during charging while owner at store - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2388 217 Pack catches fire during charging in house - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2455
	Last edited by hoppy; Apr 02, 2013 at 10:14 AM.

Aug 12, 2010, 05:57 PM	#5
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	LIPO LITERATURE http://www.powerstream.com/lithuim-i...ge-voltage.htm http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/41531.pdf http://www.aqmd.gov/tao/conferencesw...hty-Sandia.pdf http://powerelectronics.com/site-fil...ttery-life.pdf http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap4-page9.asp http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap10-page6.asp http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=11 http://www.gbrcaa.org/ntoa/Li%20Poly%20Review%201.htm http://www.huret.com/overview.pdf http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm http://corrosion-doctors.org/Seconda...i-ion-reac.htm http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/09-55.pdf http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal20...ONE2011_17.pdf http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/availa...ssertation.pdf http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm#dod http://www.mpoweruk.com/battery_manufacturing.htm http://144.206.159.178/ft/641/92454/1607530.pdf http://www.powerstream.com/lithuim-i...ge-voltage.htm http://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vie...asa-technical- http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA527711 http://lancair.net/lists/lml/Message...ery%20Life.pdf http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_pac...ymer_tech.html Pack swelling on discharge - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...90286/abstract Why batteries puff - http://barnson.org/node/1842 What's wrong with LiIon - http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blo...mion-ba-1.html LENR Failures - http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglars...iesjan-23-2013
	Last edited by hoppy; Apr 30, 2013 at 07:22 AM.

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Sep 21, 2010, 11:24 PM	#6
Loganza Registered User Joined Sep 2010 2 Posts	2 questions I have 2 different types of battery packs and im not sure on how to charge them. i have an Astroflight lithium charger with the astroflight power supply. what im not sure about is what amperage setting do i use for these 2 different batteries? is there an equation i can use in the future to determine what amp setting to use? 1. pro lite V2 2100 mAh 3s 11.1v thunderpower pack 20C continuous/40C burst 2. Eflite 11.1V 3200mAh 3s 15C continuous Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.

Sep 22, 2010, 07:35 AM	#7
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	Most common charge current is 1C. Take the mah capacity of the battery and divide by 1000. This gives you the 1C charge current in amps. 2100mah/1000 = 2.1A charge current (1C) 3200mah/1000 = 3.2A charge current (1C) If the battery pack allows a 2C charge current multiply the 1C current by 2. If 1C = 2.1A charge current, 2C would be 4.2A charge current.

Nov 06, 2010, 09:18 AM	#8
nigelsheffield Registered User yorkshire UK Joined Oct 2007 1,372 Posts	made big mistake today and charged 2 cell on 3 cell setting realized when cell volts were 4.56v each, cells were loongmax tipple and were stone cold and after discharging back to 4.2v they flew my plane just as normal. 1st time iever done this in 5 years of electric rc planes. I gues the newer cells are more stable now but please do not try this, I consider myself very lucky to have got away with it. Wonder what voltage they would go up to b4 catching fire though----anyone care to try?

Nov 06, 2010, 10:31 AM	#9
lebus1 Nothing Runs Like a Deere Central Minnesota Joined Jul 2008 99 Posts	Uneven discharge of two 4s batteries in series I have a problem of uneven discharging of my 4s batteries connected in a series. I have rechecked the soldering on the series connectors (eflite manufactured) and that changed nothing. I tried replacing one of the batteries in the pack and that changed nothing. I have rotated the batteries in the pack and that changed nothing. All batteries are charged full to 4.2 or slightly less. When I test run my motor I draw down 2000 mAH from two 5000 mAH batteries connected in a series. When I recharge them one typically charges to 2700 mAH and the other 1700 mAH. I am pulling close to 50 amps @ wot (about 1500 watts). This test usually takes 2 min 20 - 30 sec to complete. If I were to run to LVC I will ruin at least one 4s battery (I've done it already). I am running out of ideas on how to correct this. Please advise. Thanks DB

Nov 06, 2010, 02:41 PM	#10
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	You are correct in thinking something is amiss here. What's happening cannot be happening but it is. Couple of questions. What is the voltage of each pack 1 hour after charging? What is the voltage of each pack 15 min after the test has ended? Can you measure individual cell voltages? That would be more informative than total pack voltages. 50000ma draw/5000mah pack = 10 C-rate 60 min/10C-rate = 6 min operation. So 2.5min/6 min = 0.42 0.42 x 5000mah = 2100mah which is close to what you are reporting. Are you using 2 different chargers? The voltages asked for will tell a lot.

Nov 06, 2010, 06:00 PM	#11
lebus1 Nothing Runs Like a Deere Central Minnesota Joined Jul 2008 99 Posts	I am using two chargers and the top limit is different. One tops out at 4.19/cell and the other is 4.23 / cell. I did recharge the lower reading battery in the higher charging charger to "even" them out. The difference between battery's after that procedure is approximatley 800 mAH. Still too much to fly that way. I haven't checked voltages after a test run because I was testing, charging, testing etc. I can do that in the next round. These are 20c 5000 mAH Turnegy batteries all new never used. I will rerun my tests and will record indiviual cell voltages as well. I can report individual voltages when I retest maybe later tonight. Thanks DB

Nov 06, 2010, 07:26 PM	#12
davecrash Fly now crash later Canada, ON, Newmarket Joined Nov 2006 2,115 Posts	Which chargers are you using. Some can have the peak adjusted.

Nov 06, 2010, 08:07 PM	#14
lebus1 Nothing Runs Like a Deere Central Minnesota Joined Jul 2008 99 Posts	The chargers are iMax B8+ and an E-flite EFLC506. Neither have voltage adjustment features. The iMax B8+ charges to the 4.20-4.23. The E-flite maxes at 4.13 - 4.17. I have a Hobby King battery Medic which will read individual cells and balancer (use for storage prep). The voltages match what I am seeing on the chargers though.

Nov 06, 2010, 09:10 PM	#15
hoppy Space Coast Space Coast Joined Oct 2000 18,594 Posts	Always one more data request.... Do you have a DVM to check all the voltages with?