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Old Aug 05, 2010, 12:26 AM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
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Question
KK Quadcopter for FPV?

What do you folks think? How does a quad do for use in FPV fun flying? Especially the KapteinKuk variety.. it's all I can afford lol
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 04:40 AM
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United States, CA, San Jose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spagoziak View Post
What do you folks think? How does a quad do for use in FPV fun flying? Especially the KapteinKuk variety.. it's all I can afford lol
Hi Spagoziak,

I'm building my KK quad specifically for FPV. See my reply in the KK build thread. Motors, ESC's, frame parts, skids, screws, etc all came up to about $130 shipped. Only the KK controller is extra; it's price depends on whether you build one from components or that's 100% complete and programmed. I built my controller from parts for $65 + $18 for a USB programmer off EBay. A 600TVL camera and NGHobbies 400mW Vtx together will add $103.
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 06:00 AM
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Romania, Dolj, Craiova
Joined Sep 2007
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You can get evertyhing from jakub for about 80 Eur / $100 and shipping.
I mean an Al frame, the controller PCB and a bag of piecese to solder yourself.
The processor comes loaded with firmware, of course.
You must add the 4 motors/ESCs and 3 gyros.
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 09:27 AM
My Karma ran over my Dogma
fireslayer26's Avatar
United States, FL, Jacksonville
Joined Feb 2010
951 Posts
I'm also building a Quad right now that I'm going to use for FPV and Aerial Photography. It is the Aeroquad frame with the Gaui GU344 flight controller. Once I get proficient with this one I am going to build another one. Its going to use Jakub_J's folding quad frame and the kkmulticopter control board.
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 02:01 PM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
1,063 Posts
Really, only $100 ish?? I need to learn how to shop, I think. Here are my best findings so far...

On www.kkmulticopter.com, the classifieds show this:
  • Niall sells a DIY board w/o gyros for $56 (35 gbp)
  • Jakub sells his marvelous frame for $88
  • Gyros on HK total to $42 plus shipping
  • Motors & esc's from HK are $109 + shipping

I already have FPV gear and such, so just need to buy the aircraft. This pile above adds up to $295 + shipping. How could I find some of this stuff cheaper?

spag
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 03:08 PM
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Here is the Jakub offer, for 76Eur "Frame + PCB + parts":

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2117

You must add motors, ESCs and gyros to the above
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 05:02 PM
My Karma ran over my Dogma
fireslayer26's Avatar
United States, FL, Jacksonville
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RENATOA View Post
Here is the Jakub offer, for 76Eur "Frame + PCB + parts":

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2117

You must add motors, ESCs and gyros to the above
Now thats hard to beat!
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 06:54 PM
Future-proof EVERYTHING
DarkHeli's Avatar
NY
Joined Jul 2008
762 Posts
I'm making a KK Copter! I am building a quad and at a later date a sexa or octo
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 09:09 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spagoziak View Post
Really, only $100 ish?? I need to learn how to shop, I think. Here are my best findings so far...
[*]Motors & esc's from HK are $109 + shipping

spag
Hi Spagoziak,

I've looked at all of them and not found any motors from HK that are well suited for a quad copter. These motors are actually only 34.5 grams. I just got them in yesterday and should be testing them tomorrow; can let you know how they do. Warthox uses very similar 39g motors and you've seen how well his copter flies. Whatever you get, avoid anything over 1100Kv. Originally I got the 1300Kv 25 gram Hextroniks from HK and ended up giving them away because they were too much RPM/v to fly stable off 3S. Also, the lighter the motors; the lighter, more efficient, and more crash resistant your quad will usually be. Also, avoid motors on a pedestal mount as they'll snap right off in crashes and your constantly ordering motor mounts (ask me how I know). You want something low profile, low Kv and low weight.

HK's Turnigy Plush ESC's are great for multi copters though; as well as HobbyWing ESC's off EBay.
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Last edited by patricklupo; Aug 05, 2010 at 09:20 PM.
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Old Aug 05, 2010, 10:12 PM
Flying with the eagles
etman's Avatar
Eagle's nest
Joined Nov 2008
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Aw shucks, another money burning project....is it really that cheap now?
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Old Aug 06, 2010, 02:16 AM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
1,063 Posts
Interesting points to consider! What exactly happens at higher kV? I know the RPM increases, but what does that mean for a quad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patricklupo View Post
Hi Spagoziak,

I've looked at all of them and not found any motors from HK that are well suited for a quad copter. These motors are actually only 34.5 grams. I just got them in yesterday and should be testing them tomorrow; can let you know how they do. Warthox uses very similar 39g motors and you've seen how well his copter flies. Whatever you get, avoid anything over 1100Kv. Originally I got the 1300Kv 25 gram Hextroniks from HK and ended up giving them away because they were too much RPM/v to fly stable off 3S. Also, the lighter the motors; the lighter, more efficient, and more crash resistant your quad will usually be. Also, avoid motors on a pedestal mount as they'll snap right off in crashes and your constantly ordering motor mounts (ask me how I know). You want something low profile, low Kv and low weight.

HK's Turnigy Plush ESC's are great for multi copters though; as well as HobbyWing ESC's off EBay.
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Old Aug 06, 2010, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by spagoziak View Post
Interesting points to consider! What exactly happens at higher kV? I know the RPM increases, but what does that mean for a quad?
I'm no expert on the matter, but feel it's about inertia. At higher RPMs the props have much more momentum and cannot change speeds as fast as if they could if they were slower. Stability of any multi copter is all about being able to change each motor's RPM quickly to keep it level. Besides the motor Kv rating; lighter weight props and higher rate ESC's also contribute towards stability by keeping the prop mass (and hence inertia) low, as well as enabling the controller to change the motor speed rapidly.

Beyond this I've also noticed that a motor's range of speed vs lift appears to be critical to stability. With higher Kv motors your usually generating more lift than is necessary, so the motors have to run at a lower speed to maintain hover. As a result the motors are at the low end of their range of speed and have less leg room to vary RPM's to stabilize. I think you can also have a quad that's got too low of a Kv rating and the reverse would be true. Ideally I think the optimum Kv rating is where hover occurs when all 4 motor's are at their half-way point in their ideal RPM range. Thanhtran probably has formulas for this stuff and will know much more than I, but he'd lose me at all the physics and math part.

You can add weight or reduce prop size to improve the stability of a quad with high Kv motors, but then you lose a lot of efficiency (in both flight duration and lift). You can alternatively switch to a 2S battery to effectively lower the RPM sweet spot that the motor works at, but then you've only got 7.4v to power a camera and video Tx. With 1300Kv motors my quad would fly for 10 minutes off a 1500Mah 3S lipo with 8x4.5 slo fly props, but it was too unstable and hard to control. Changing the props to 6x5 slo fly made it fly great and very stable but halved my flight time and reduced the payload it could carry. It's like trying to drive a car 5mph in 3rd gear. You can do it but it's not going to run smoothly or be remotely efficient. On a quad copter you only have one gear (a 1:1 ratio of prop to motor) so you want all 4 motors combined to be running at their midway point while hovering, to give them the maximum range of speed in either direction to maintain control.
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Last edited by patricklupo; Aug 06, 2010 at 04:18 AM.
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Old Aug 06, 2010, 07:06 AM
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Luxembourg
Joined May 2009
806 Posts
I am in!

I read 60 pages of the main topic, went through th website and I decide I will go for it!

We need to find recommended Configurations for FPV. I am not completely sure that HK does not have what we are looking for.

Here the configs I listed:

from the Vid on kkmulticopter.com
EMAX 2822 + HK ESC SS 25/30A + 8x4.5 SF props from quadroufo.com

The esc may be too much I guess a 18A should be enough.

Other one: Turnigy 2209 1130 + Plush 18A + 10x4.7 SF

Other one: Turnigy 2217 1100KV + Plush 30A + TGY 12x3.8

Jakub's one: Towerpro 2410-09 (needs extra glue) + Towerpro 12A + 10x4.7

850g payload apparently.


So what do we FPVer go for?
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Old Aug 06, 2010, 07:14 AM
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Austria
Joined Feb 2007
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at fpv4ever.com you can order it ready-made. just got off skype with the owner. I think I'll get one there, too many variables...
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Old Aug 06, 2010, 08:00 AM
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France/china
Joined Jun 2008
89 Posts
Hi,

First FPV flight in KKquadri, and with a quadri without assisted mode (GPS)

1ers tests du KKcopter en immersion. (1 min 9 sec)


Since some change have been done , upgrade firmware to 4.4 and change propeller so need to make test flight this aftenoon

Fabien
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