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Old Apr 03, 2012, 10:06 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Originally Posted by fooman2008 View Post
The guy who taught me how to sail claimed that it was the Sacramento Valley heating up that sucked all the wind in the Golden Gate and that is why there are always small craft warnings nearly every day all summer long.
'Zactly right! The heat in the Fremont and Sacramento Valleys is what creates the onshore, ahem, 'breezes' in the area; our 'air conditioning system' hard at work. Also, the hotter the Valleys, the faster the fog gets sucked in off the Pacific, that's a big reason why summers are so foggy here.
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Old Apr 03, 2012, 10:22 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
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The Irregulars were busy that day as well... Since Justin already posted pictures of the boats, I'll just post the plane....
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Old Apr 03, 2012, 10:40 PM
Taking care of the pond.
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Great pictures,
Thank You
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 08:30 AM
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Oakland Ca.
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The plane !

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Originally Posted by craig_c View Post
The Irregulars were busy that day as well... Since Justin already posted pictures of the boats, I'll just post the plane....
Aaaah !
The plane !
The Plane !
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 09:35 AM
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United States, ID, Rexburg
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I have seen the ads for the Icon (both full scale and smaller) but haven't seen any reviews of it (either the model or full scale) looks like it flies pretty well and handles on the water well also.
Foo
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Old Apr 08, 2012, 05:50 PM
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anyone know whats up with these reckless RC flyers at Spreckels Lake recently?
Theyre flying towards people and its getting hard for me to run my mini cat cause the loop I'm told to run through has planes landing and taking off on.
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Old Apr 08, 2012, 10:46 PM
Fast Cal
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Joined Jul 2011
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I have heard a few complaints on them. I think some people think it is okay to fly there since they see others fly. I am a flyer as well as a boater. I know the risks involved flying especially with an audience. I think it should be left at Sierra Pt. I know some of the flyers, I can trust them BUT others I know for a fact that yet should fly elsewhere. I have heard and seen a lot of close calls and someone's boat getting hit. It IS time for anyone that is on here that knows these fliers to tell them they are jeopardizing the boater's use of the lake as well as jeopardizing fliers to fly locally. As the boaters know all it takes us one accident involving injury to halt use if the lake from boaters and may jeopardize fliers to fly elsewhere locally. SO PLEASE tell your fellow fliers to fly elsewhere.
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 12:53 AM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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I think that we are going to have to deal with any allegedly "irresponsible" model aviators the same way that we have to deal with the "irresponsible" gas power skippers who sometimes create 'situations' on The Lake - subtly and with peer pressure to not act stupidly. That means that you talk and reason with them, just like the main group of the "Irregulars" has been doing on The Lake for years. Remember also, to the best of my knowledge, a couple of the regular Irregulars were the first people to bring aquatic aircraft and helicopters to The Lake. Kevin <MrLego> and his 'helos' comes immediately to mind as well as do couple of other regulars

If aviators do not listen, document their behavior, take pictures and OUT them (like I did a while back with a skipper who was behaving in a manner that endangered other boaters, their models and the public a while back). Public exposure (and, to be blunt, occasionally 'shaming') to our peers has its uses. If they are engaging in truly dangerous behavior, call 911 just like you would for someone driving a car drunk or recklessly on a busy street.

Just to be very clear though, to the best of my knowledge, there is NO RULE, City, County or Recreation and Park Department, forbidding electrically powered aircraft or gliders from flying at Spreckels Lake or anywhere else in The City (see below*). City codes ban liquid fueled aircraft of any sort from Park and/or Port property within the City and County, I am not familiar with the laws/rules covering the GGNRA where federal laws and regulations would probably prevail.

"Common sense" should dictate you don't fly large, fast or heavy aircraft in areas with significant crowds or recklessly (at or over people). This is an "education issue.' People need to be educated as to safe and sane (to borrow a phrase) behavior regarding flying their aircraft. Remind them if there is an accident, then they are going to be personally paying the hospital bills of everyone injured in addition to possibly ending up in court for many years. Push AMA membership and insurance.

Remind them also that sometimes ST just happens, even to the best of flyers - case in point: that F/A-18D that experienced a "catastrophic mechanical malfunction" over Virginia Beach recently and crashed into the apartment complex. RFI, mechanical glitches and other modes of failure happen to us modelers a whole lot more often than they happen to F-18s operating out of NAS Oceana,

I think that the small aquatic (electric) park flyers that we have seen at The Lake over the last year or so are here to stay and we are going to have to cohabitate with them and bring them into the larger community of people who use and care for The Lake. By making them less of a "THEM" and more of an "US," we make them stakeholders in The Lake. Then caring for and enforcing common sense and courtesy upon themselves when they are at The Lake then becomes in their best interest as well as ours.

Widening the base of people who use Spreckels for modeling purposes will probably be for the better.

An adversarial relationship with the aviators will not lead to solutions, only further polarization and hardening of positions.

On a side note....
In a very large way and by sheer legal chance, small and lightweight, electrically powered 'park flyers' have given model aviation a second chance within San Francisco. It used to be legal to fly planes (U-control mainly) in the City at couple of the playgrounds and at the eastern end of the Polo Fields and there was a thriving model aviation community here in San Francisco. That all ended in the late Sixties or early Seventies (I don't recall specifically when nor will I go into the "urban legends" as to why) when gas aircraft were totally banned (see below)! So right now, we are getting a second chance. Impress on any aviators being stupid that they will not be appreciated by their fellows if electric aircraft were to be banned along with their gas powered brethren.

One thing I (and, I would hope, the rest of us as well) very much would not want to see is either the Recreation and Parks Department or the 'Powers-That-Be' down at City Hall get irritated with the modeling community.
As was pointed out earlier...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tugs View Post
All in all its through friendly cooperation that all can enjoy the facilities in the Park.



*The law covering aircraft on SF Rec. & Park property is:
SEC. 4.01. - DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
No person shall, in any park without permission of the Recreation and Park Department:
(d) Carry or use a model airplane which is powered by liquid fuel or designed to be used with such fuel;
This (and a equivalent corresponding passage in the SF Municipal Port Code (SEC. 3.1.(D)), are to the best of my knowledge, the only restrictions specifically referring to model aviation within the City

Model aircraft might (with a bit of a legal stretch...) possibly come under SEC 3.1.(A) of the SF Port Code; to wit...
SEC. 3.1. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
No person shall, in any park, without written permission of the Executive Director:
(A) Throw or propel objects of a potentially dangerous nature, including, but not limited to, stones, bottles, glass, cans or crockery;
But that may apply only on Port operated parks. (Hey, I iz not a lawyer...)
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 02:48 AM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
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Originally Posted by craig_c View Post
Remember also, to the best of my knowledge, a couple of the regular Irregulars were the first people to bring aquatic aircraft and helicopters to The Lake. Kevin <MrLego> and his 'helos' comes immediately to mind as well as do couple of other regulars
Hey, I don't want anyone pming me saying I'm an endangerment to the RC community at Spreckels Lake.

Just cause I brought it, doesn't mean I introduced it. I never flown at Spreckels in almost a year now.

I am a safe flyer and have not crashed any of my helicopters because of negligence or inexperience.
Please do note that I followed guidelines in my flights. Meaning, I check my helicopter before and after flight, and ensured there is a marked landing area that is 15 feet away from anyone. and although in my FIVE times I've flown over Spreckels, only once out of the 5 times were flown on land for a demonstration which was the Hughes 500. (posted in July 2011 for Day of Gray) After that, I've never flown there again because I realised that I've jeopardised public safety when any of my aircrafts were in the air at Spreckels Lake. Again, this being almost a year now, and the first flight well about 2 years ago. It was very seldom I did it in the past.

For example, in Day of Gray, there was a crowd of boaters and tables of boats, and I brought my Hughes 500 to show my friends. One asked for me to fly it. So I made sure another friend kept a clear landing for me and I flew it for ~2 minutes. After realising a large crowd began to gather, I immediately grounded the flight and never flew again; fearing a malfunction may send the helicopter into the crowd.


Bottomline (and please note as I make it clear):
I DID NOT INTRODUCE AQUATIC FLIGHT TO SPRECKELS LAKE!
I DID NOT NOR DID I ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO FLY AT SPRECKELS LAKE!
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 03:20 AM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Kevin, I never said that you were an endangerment to anybody at Spreckels Lake (or otherwise). All I said is that you were one of the first people I knew of that operated an aircraft at The Lake. No one, least of all me, is saying you have done anything wrong nor are you being held up in anyway other than you are one of the regular boaters at The Lake who is also sometimes a flyer.

Just so this is clear - I have never seen Kevin acting in an irresponsible manner Lakeside with either his boats or his aircraft. On the contrary, he has always, to the best of my knowledge, operated in a safe and courteous fashion at all times. He has been an exemplar of a good and conscientious modeler and skipper!

Whither or not you introduced or encouraged aircraft at The Lake is bedside the point; 'park-model' aviation was bound to happen with the advent of smaller, and more inexpensive RTRs, ARTRS and BNF aircraft, especially after aquatic versions started to appear.

Part of the problem is I see a developing US (Boaters) vs. THEM (Flyers) situation in the making. That is not going to help resolve any issues between different groups using The Lake, especially as currently (as far as I can tell), they have almost as much right to be there as the boaters do.

To a certain extent I would rather see them there than somewhere else (within radio range - i.e. seven miles) because at least this way if anyone is still using an AM or FM radio instead of a 2.4ghz bound radio, we can at least keep frequency conflicts to a minimum by checking with each other before we run our respective craft. (And even 2.4ghz rigs are not immune to RFI, just more 'fault tolerant, than the older rigs were I have been told (there a couple of threads about it somewhere on RCG).)

Back in the early and mid-eighties when R/C cars were gaining in popularity, the Club experienced mounting RFI issues at the Lake due to, we believed, people running cars on the surrounding avenues. And since they were all over the place, there really was no solution to the problem. At least this way, the aviation guys are 'right next door,' where we can get a dialogue going over items of mutual concern.
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 03:26 AM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c View Post
Kevin,

I never said that you were an endangerment to anybody at Spreckels Lake (or otherwise). All I said is that you were one of the first people I knew of that operated an aircraft at The Lake.

Just so this is clear - I have never seen Kevin acting in an irresponsible manner Lakeside with either his boats or his aircraft. On the contrary, he has always, to the best of my knowledge, operated in a safe and courteous fashion.
thanks craig_c for clearing that up.

sorry if it seemed like it was an attacked response. It was never intended to be that way.
its just that someone pmed me a while ago thinking I was a part of the R/C flyers that are currently attending Spreckels Lake. So I got the email, came on here, and wrote the response to what you meant by when my helis come in mind.

So.. I just wanted to clarify that just in case a mob spams my inbox.


Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c View Post
Part of the problem is I see a developing US (Boaters) vs. THEM (Flyers) situation in the making. That is not going to help resolve any issues between different groups using The Lake, especially as currently (as far as I can tell), they have just as much right to be there as the boaters do.
Yes, I don't mind them being there as long as they are courteous and fly safely. However, I do hear complaints here and there that the boaters are being pushed to a corner and that they may hit a spectator.
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Old Apr 09, 2012, 03:54 AM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLego View Post
So.. I just wanted to clarify that just in case a mob spams my inbox.
Most understandable
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLego View Post
However, I do hear complaints here and there that the boaters are being pushed to a corner and that they may hit a spectator.
This is really most unfortunate to hear.

This then is where we all need to get the dialogue going. While this thread tends to be focused on Power Boating on Spreckels Lake, it is not just for The Club or the Irregulars alone, but for the Spreckels Lake Modeling Community in general and for the general good of modeling (RC or otherwise) on The Lake. Maybe, if some of the aviation guys are out there, they could join the discussion.

One thing to remember though - Spreckels Lake was built in 1904 specifically for model boaters as a model yacht facility and for competitive model yachting on land bequeathed to San Francisco for that very reason by the Spreckels family (if I recall my SF history correctly) and has been used in that fashion for more than 100 years. Model boating (and the SFMYC) is not going anywhere. Spreckels Lake is a boaters' lake first, last and foremost. (One of the best in the country, truth be known... )
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Seaplanes on Spreckels Lake

My boats have been hit twice by seaplanes, and there have been a number of "close calls". No, I don't like it. A seaplane hit could easily sink a small boat.
But, then again, I have a couple of friends who fly seaplanes at Spreckels. I trust their skills because I've watched them fly enough to know.
My solution to the seaplane conundrum is that I don't put a boat in the water very often on Sundays any more, and if I do, I go down to the East end of the lake, or over to the North end.
It's not that I don't like you guys, it's just that I like to bring my boats home with me at the end of the day.
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig_c View Post
I think that the small aquatic (electric) park flyers that we have seen at The Lake over the last year or so are here to stay and we are going to have to cohabitate with them and bring them into the larger community of people who use and care for The Lake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Heacock View Post
My boats have been hit twice by seaplanes, and there have been a number of "close calls". ...
My solution to the seaplane conundrum is that I don't put a boat in the water very often on Sundays any more...
Wow, just, wow.
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