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Old Aug 07, 2011, 02:14 PM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
MrLego's Avatar
Smalltown, USA
Joined Sep 2010
418 Posts
thats messed up... I would have tossed that dumbass into the lake and have him fish that boat back to shore; especially since he's been verbally warned. Did the owner of the Constitution get paid for damages?

oh man... I missed the day where VSpeeds was out there with his SFPD Marine 1!
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 03:38 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
3,634 Posts
I know everyone hates me putting this up as it really has no enforceable meaning, but it kinda' does cover the old rules-of-thumb on the Lake in addition to my personal (non-binding) understanding of the Recreation & Park Dept. signs which may or may not be accurate.


Most of it is common sense when you come down to it; the extreme east and west ends of the Lake are too small for a big go-fastie to maneuver and loud boats shouldn't be running on the north shore because of the noise that reaches the residents of Fulton Street beyond the tree line.

---------------------------------------------

OK, Quick refresher course: the applicable law
from the Park Code section of the San Francisco Municipal Code...

(plus the posting on the signs).


SEC. 3.02. SIGNS TO BE OBEYED.
No person shall willfully disobey the notices,
prohibitions or directions on any sign posted by
the Recreation and Park Commission or the
Recreation and Park Department. (Added by
Ord. 603-81, App. 12/18/81)

also

SEC. 4.01. - DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

No person shall, in any park without permission of the Recreation and Park Department:
(d) Carry or use a model airplane which is powered by liquid fuel or designed to be used with such fuel;

And they just added the " No Smoking" sign... SF Health Code, Article 19I


Older(original) sign up a tree,
north (sail) side of Spreckles Lake...

"Model Yacht Facility
No Fishing Allowed
Power boats on south side of lake only between 10am and 1pm Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday only"


and the new signage in a couple of places near the power 'pit area' on the south side of the Lake reads...
  1. Internal Combustion (IC) and Nitro powered boats may be operated on the lake from 10amto 1pm Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays only. Sail boats shall have full access of the lake at all times.
  2. IC and Nitro powered boats must not be operated at speeds in excess of 15 MPH and must not exceed a decible noise level of 60 at full throttle at 50' from the meter on shore.
  3. All local and state laws must be observed in the interest of safety.
  4. Powered boats are to steer clear of all wildlife on the lake.
  5. No more than two IC or Nitro powered boats may be operated on the lake at any one time.
  6. IC/Nitro powered boats shall be run in a clockwise direction and remain outside of the far-east and far-west ends of the lake.
  7. Radio frequency flags must be properly displayed on antennas whenever in use.
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 06:01 PM
Capt. Jack
USA, CA, Petaluma
Joined Oct 2010
321 Posts
I came late and the gas boats were packing up. Sorry to here there was such a calamity.

In our group, we make sure the gas fasties have priority on the water (when they run which isn't very often in comparison) and all others in the water come out. We never have had an incident. They aren't in the water very long anyway and it's common courtesy to them to give them as much clean water as possible. We keep our rescue boats shoreside and ready for any recoveries. If a flip or dead stick on the water occurs, any other gassers (or fasties) politely come to shore to let the rescue take place. Same goes with our electric fasties (that are faster than the gas boats!). After-all, without the tugs and scalers, the gas boats have a greater chance of sinking. So it's a harmonious affair.

Once the gas (or fast boats) had a few runs - they are pretty much done and the scalers and sailers hit the water. Sail taking priority of line. But if a gasser wants to hit the water again, we communicate, come in and let them go out for another 5 minute run.

Pretty simple logic actually. Just a matter of everyone getting a turn.

As for running shoreline with a glitchy servo, hummm. No logic behind that one.
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 06:02 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, SF
Joined Sep 2006
51 Posts
Hi to all,
That "irregular" person that Craig was pertaining to is me. Julio. Racer59. Craig, you know my name and my call sign. You can post it. I have nothing to hide.

Saturdays are the time we run power boats.

I have been running gas boats at Spreckels Lake since 1996. Respect the lake and help
with the area as much as I can. I have an 84" twin boat that I set up to run not greater than 25mph. You see me run the boat. I have a clutch and pretty much idle the boat on the side and not running fast. Matter of fact, I went on the other side of the lake to give ways to electrics,steamers,etc. that comes in and out of the lake whenever they feel like it including Saturdays.

I will not stop running my boats when it comes to Saturdays at 10-1pm. Why not run your event Sundays or anytime besides the power boats time?

I run both Electrics and Gasoline boats, Member since 1998 at SFMYC. Renewed it recently and hope that we perhaps have a better communication towards the lake
and the way we run. Not to make waves but it seemed to me like the Go fasties here
are being on the bad side.

Julio. Racer59.
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 06:04 PM
Tinkerer in Training
RGinCanada's Avatar
Guelph, ON
Joined Sep 2004
1,845 Posts
What is the rule of thumb when one operator damages another's boat? I would assume that a profuse apology would be a bare minimum as a start, and an offer of compensation.
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 06:55 PM
Grumpa Tom
Kmot's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Sep 2003
22,888 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer59 View Post

I will not stop running my boats when it comes to Saturdays at 10-1pm. Why not run your event Sundays or anytime besides the power boats time?



Julio. Racer59.
LOL, nice to see how some club members are willing to accommodate the other club members needs.
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 07:28 PM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
MrLego's Avatar
Smalltown, USA
Joined Sep 2010
418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGinCanada View Post
What is the rule of thumb when one operator damages another's boat? I would assume that a profuse apology would be a bare minimum as a start, and an offer of compensation.
its the same as any... You respect everyone's property, be courteous, and if you damage someone's property, you'd pay for the damages.


Craig, that map you put up is good... but assume someone is a first timer at the lake. Generally people should be courteous... if someone is running their model boats near shore, then clearly the person with the fast boat shouldn't be zipping left and right between those model boats. Communication is the key... and it seems that person with the gas powered tunnel hull boat failed to do so.

By the way... I'm teaching an "Introduction to RC" to elementary school children in the fall... Is it ok if I use this incident as an example in the class?
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 09:31 PM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
MrLego's Avatar
Smalltown, USA
Joined Sep 2010
418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fodigo View Post
As for running shoreline with a glitchy servo, hummm. No logic behind that one.
excuse or the truth? thats what i'm wondering...
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 10:51 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
3,634 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer59 View Post
Craig, you know my name and my call sign. You can post it. I have nothing to hide.
Never thought you did or do but we were chatting at Lakeside as friends and concerned boaters, and I hadn't indicated that we were going to go "on the record" so I was giving it the benefit of the doubt that you might not appreciate being quoted. I learned journalism in the old school, not the Beck/Hannratty/Murdoch school

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer59 View Post
I will not stop running my boats when it comes to Saturdays at 10-1pm.
I am not even suggesting that, not even going near there. You know me, I support the presence of gas power on the Lake both historically and into the future. It is a legitimate, established form of model boating and should and must have it's place on Spreckels Lake and in no way do I want to see any further restrictions applied to either gas boats or boats on the Lake in general.

That being said I want to mull over some of the earlier posts before making more comments... but, I'll be back.

PS. A large reason that the Club holds power events on Saturday sometimes is so we can give time to people coming in from out of town, and the Club has had folks coming from as far away as Vancouver Island for contests, so that they can participate and play on Saturday and then drive home on Sunday. The Club is NOT trying to nudge the gas skippers or anyone else off the Lake.
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 11:03 PM
Taking care of the pond.
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USA, CA, Fresno
Joined Apr 2004
7,261 Posts
Great pictures, Edith E looks beautiful on the water.
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Old Aug 08, 2011, 01:00 AM
Todd Fleury
sport 40 II's Avatar
United States, MI, Birmingham
Joined Jun 2011
110 Posts
After reading what has happened at the lake recently, I am mortified that some one like that would not run their boat according to the rules of the lake. A person like that makes all gas boaters look bad. I am sorry to hear that the beautiful sail boat was seriously damaged. I really enjoyed running my boat at Sprekles and looked forward to continue running there. It was great to get out and hang out with people of similar interests. But I am now seriously considering not running there anymore. I have been petitioning to find another location for gas boats. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the lake and the group that ran there on Saturday's, but I am kind of wondering what other rules will be enforced if any. Yes, I run gas boats, and I enjoy racing them. But I do not want to be classified as a thug because of one irresponsible jerk. Julio, I can see it from your stand point as us gassers are very limited in running. The main reason I did not make it this Saturday was due to the fact that I knew it was the steam up and felt as though the gassers were getting pushed from their very limited time. Fremont is now looking better and better. Just like everyone else I have spent a significant amount on my boats and would not like to see someone who has no regard for anyone else use their boat as a battering ram. If I see that person, I hope his boat sinks the middle of the lake.
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Old Aug 08, 2011, 01:37 AM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
3,634 Posts
Alright guys... chill! Put the frequency flags on the ground and step back, away from the edge of the Lake...

This is about what ONE GUY DID and what he continued to do afterwards. This is NOT about gas boats or gas boaters.

Given the advances in electrically driven boats, it could just as easily have been a brushless boat running on LiPos!

So, I say again, this is NOT about gas or the people who run gas.

The Club, the Irregulars and everyone else who runs on the Lake form a community of 'stakeholders' in the Lake no matter what we sail or don't sail and we all need to work together to promote a safe and uncontentious environment play in. That's what this is about, trying to make sure everybody has their fun, keeps on having their fun and how we all manage to make that happen.

What happened on Saturday, was the act of one thoughtless person and, like Mister Lego, I too question whither there was a twitchy servo and I was looking at the tunnel when it hit the Constitution. My take - Twitchy servo or not - he was too fast and on way to close a heading, like a motorcyclist who threads around and between the cars on the freeway doing 90. Wouldn't have mattered if the had been outside the 50' marker either. He cut the distances too fine at too fast a pace and the 'Connie' paid for it. He was operationally outside of his envelope. Pilot Error, pure and simple.

As for later powering straight in towards the Lake edge at speed and doing snap turns. One miscalculation or mistimed maneuver under the best conditions and we have an aerial egress from the lake at a substantial velocity. And this guy's boat was supposed had a "twitchy servo" or other undiagnosed and unrepaired radio malf??? Nuts!

ps. He showed me his rig; a 2.4ghz, current generation with built-in servo position neutralizer / integral 'kill switch.'
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Old Aug 08, 2011, 02:22 AM
Registered User
Elk Grove, CA
Joined Apr 2010
121 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLego View Post
excuse or the truth? thats what i'm wondering...
It took awhile for him to contact the skipper and apologize and When i heard him say something about the servos I wondered the same thoughts.

Although he did make me take my boats out of the lake when he started running again, i had a great time
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Old Aug 08, 2011, 02:35 AM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
MrLego's Avatar
Smalltown, USA
Joined Sep 2010
418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vspeeds View Post
It took awhile for him to contact the skipper and apologize and When i heard him say something about the servos I wondered the same thoughts.

Although he did make me take my boats out of the lake when he started running again, i had a great time
I hope you could make it for the 7:45pm August 17th night run!
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Old Aug 08, 2011, 02:43 AM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
MrLego's Avatar
Smalltown, USA
Joined Sep 2010
418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sport 40 II View Post
After reading what has happened at the lake recently, I am mortified that some one like that would not run their boat according to the rules of the lake. A person like that makes all gas boaters look bad. I am sorry to hear that the beautiful sail boat was seriously damaged. I really enjoyed running my boat at Sprekles and looked forward to continue running there. It was great to get out and hang out with people of similar interests. But I am now seriously considering not running there anymore. I have been petitioning to find another location for gas boats. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the lake and the group that ran there on Saturday's, but I am kind of wondering what other rules will be enforced if any. Yes, I run gas boats, and I enjoy racing them. But I do not want to be classified as a thug because of one irresponsible jerk. Julio, I can see it from your stand point as us gassers are very limited in running. The main reason I did not make it this Saturday was due to the fact that I knew it was the steam up and felt as though the gassers were getting pushed from their very limited time. Fremont is now looking better and better. Just like everyone else I have spent a significant amount on my boats and would not like to see someone who has no regard for anyone else use their boat as a battering ram. If I see that person, I hope his boat sinks the middle of the lake.
I see where you're going with this... but you're probably being classified by others already right when you run a RC... not as a thug... but probably a kid. I dont know if you see where I'm going with this... but I'm trying to say is the first communication you make with other RC'ers will most likely change their view point of who you are. Just like when I go out to Spreckels Lake, if I make contact with other RC Boaters there, I don't see them as 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, etc year old people, I see them as my age, my type of people going out to relax and enjoy what the outdoors has to offer. Surely anywhere you go, theres bound to be an occasional d-bag messing up your day... doesn't have to be at the lake, but say someone double parking and blocking your car in? but what can you do but call the proper authorities... You could always take matter into your own hands, but that only risks the safety of your life.

hey! an idea! Maybe we could tie them law/rule evading people to a few concrete masonry units and toss them in the lake!? no... im kidding... don't do that guys.
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