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Old Sep 17, 2012, 11:04 PM
Grumpa Tom
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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Most likely the rules were originally written when 'fast electric boat' was not even in the dictionary because electric boats were slugs all the way up to the 90's or so.

Today, any numbnutz with $300+ can buy an RTR FE that goes 40+ MPH out of the box, toss it in the water totally clueless and wreak havoc. And sadly, there are a lot of numbnutz's out there.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 11:24 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Fast electrics were there already in a embryonic form in the 70's, hand-wound motors and really really, really ugly! I'll see if I can find my little hull in the depths of the dungeon...er ... basement and post a pic some time No one had heard of brushless at the time.

As for you Grumpa.... yeah, in a number of cases I gotta concur. But I have to hope it is a lack of experience with boats that is usually the culprit; we can (hopefully) cure that. After all, not many can afford to blow $300 plus schmazollians away. On the other hand....
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 12:23 AM
RC Flying;Lego Contraption Guy
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Well you are gaining plenty of practical experience of the issues surrounding a contentious public safety issue. Maybe you can arrange for extra credit by doing a paper on the Lake and its skippers and stakeholders.

As always, looking forward to hearing what you have to say.
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I guess no one told the Parks And Rec Dept that electric rc boats hold the world speed record. They probably think that electrics are slow.

Don't get me wrong guys. I am all for the fast boats to run as well, but I am a huge proponent of following the posted safety rules. With all of the pedestrian traffic around the shore of Spreckles one can clearly see why the City posted the speed limit in the name of safety. It seems that Spreckles is not a good choice for fast boats.
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Most likely the rules were originally written when 'fast electric boat' was not even in the dictionary because electric boats were slugs all the way up to the 90's or so.

Today, any numbnutz with $300+ can buy an RTR FE that goes 40+ MPH out of the box, toss it in the water totally clueless and wreak havoc. And sadly, there are a lot of numbnutz's out there.

Craig_C---ok, well craig... I gave a 10 minute community Public Safety speech, and I did mention the lake.. and... I wasn't taken too seriously by my classmates and they claimed my claims were "too hollywood" and laughed seriously...? anyways, I'll post what I said later down the line if anyone is interested.

SD RC Boater-- well see... the thing is, people don't think. Its like driving. If you see a crowd of people or children around, are you going to continue speeding? or slow down? People can't be going 40 MPH in a 25 MPH zone in the city. Theres a lot of variables and cautions that need to be taken. A child jumping out in the street, someone pulling out, etc. Same concept is applied here.

Kmot--- off the top of my head, I could name 2 that go to the lake and run like a fool; ignoring our warnings like a joke.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 02:21 AM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Craig_C---ok, well craig... I gave a 10 minute community Public Safety speech, and I did mention the lake.. and... I wasn't taken too seriously by my classmates and they claimed my claims were "too hollywood" and laughed seriously...? anyways, I'll post what I said later down the line if anyone is interested.
What? They thought it was too much like a soap opera??? Truth is really stranger than fiction. And yes, I'd be interested.

And I agree, driving is a very, very excellent analogy - you do NOT learn to drive in a Testarossa, even if you own the track!!! I am seriously wondering about age limits for kids without parents or guardians present and watching or possibly restricting the type of boats by age. It's a crappy thing to do, saying you can't drive that kind of boat until you're 14 or whatever, but maybe it might help. There is a reason for trikes, training wheels, then 10 speeds. Feedback / ideas please.

Unfortunately, there are some folks who never learn to drive safely either.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 10:58 AM
Grumpa Tom
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When the parent is as clueless as the child, then what?
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 02:09 PM
Fast Cal
United States, CA, SF
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When the parent is as clueless as the child, then what?
Hahah I know of such a person who will remain nameless. Let's just say they are one of the ones causing the headaches.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 02:43 PM
made of fire and pop rocks
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Richmond Virginia
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When the parent is as clueless as the child, then what?
And of course, this reminds of an old saying we had back when I was a industrial controls tech and Machine fabricator.

in consideration of building inherent safety into the machinery:

"it is impossible to make anything Idiot proof. One can only hope to make it idiot resistant. As soon as you do, they will only come out with a better, more resilient idiot."

As much work as I did to make sure the park ponds in Richmond to be boat friendly, I never broached the subject of fast IC or electric. Too much of a can of worms to open unless you actually are looking to go fishing.

the only park ponds we have that are large enough to accommodate speed runs are surrounded on all sides by... rather affluent neighborhoods. I don't think the richers would be appreciative of such schinanagins...

one of the guys who owns one of those old Edwardian era homes is one Phillipe Rose. Some of y'all might remember him as The Indian, the founding, and only original Member of the Village People.

Now, would YOU want that guy rushing out of his house to fuss you out for running a fast IC or electric in the midst of his bucolic, park like quietness?

No, really... put that little bit of mental sunshine into the third eye of your Imagination... The Indian, from the village people, running up, and fussing you out.

There... now you wont be able to sleep for a week. you are WELCOME!
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 03:16 PM
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No, really... put that little bit of mental sunshine into the third eye of your Imagination... The Indian, from the village people, running up, and fussing you out.

There... now you wont be able to sleep for a week. you are WELCOME!
"Y...R...U... running that boat on this lake?"

Yeah, thanks bgnome...
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 04:06 PM
made of fire and pop rocks
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Richmond Virginia
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I've actually had a few opportunities to sit down with Mr. Rose, chat, and have beverages with the gentleman, and he's actually a very nice and personable gentleman.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 05:14 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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As much work as I did to make sure the park ponds in Richmond to be boat friendly, I never broached the subject of fast IC or electric. Too much of a can of worms to open unless you actually are looking to go fishing.
Hmmmm..... Guess that's a big advantage to having a venue that is 'old in the hobby,' dating from much more tolerant times like Spreckels is. You can still have the old 'legacy activities' like the free sailors and speed boats.

Though there seems to be an underlying assumption in many of the comments (and discussions I have had) that the speed boats are a turn off to the public, not just the bureaucracies. The exact opposite seems to be true for the spectators here at the Lake. Few spectators ever watch the sailboats, a number gather and some stop and chat with the scale electrics or steamers but the fast boats always have at least a bit of a crowd lining the pit cove who stop, watch oooh, ah and get their phones out to take pictures.

As much as I'm a scale modeler, I know that the go-fasties are probably the major attractant and the gateway 'drug'*1 for the hobby of model boating.

That hasn't really changed since the hobby got started. In the books from the hobby's early days, the 1880s through 1920s, the 'need or speed' and competition were always present. High speed steam engines and flash boilers make an very early debut in the sport.

-------------------------------

*1 The first taste is freeeee, someone lets ya skipper a boat for a while by a pretty lake, then ya builds a Springer an' than a tug. Nex' thing ya know, yer a-snortin' balsa dust at'ta workbench alla the time....
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 06:14 PM
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Good day to ya alllll...As some of you may have noticed I have the privilege and pleasure of the use of a really great older model from many years ago, in fact it has been on display in the club house for thirty years. The "Dixie Lea" was built in the mid 1970's by Al Collins, earliest photos are dated 1978. After he passed away his daughter donated the boat to the club. I ask for the privilege of getting it up and running again, I've installed a new 2.4 radio and electronics. She is a clam water boat as she sits real low in the water. I'm wondering with the wooden boats on parade coming up if anyone knows where his daughter is and how to contact her to invite her to she her dad's old "Dixie" churning the waters of the lake again. If your'e quiet when she passes you can hear the bubbling sound the water makes off the stern-wheel. Happy messin with boats......
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 06:27 PM
made of fire and pop rocks
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Richmond Virginia
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As much as I agree with you craig... you gotta remember, that this old east coast town is VERY lazy, and we do like our our lazy pursuits..

really, the biggest hobbies around here are drinking, eating, and making conditions advantageous for the previous two. particularly the first.

all other hobbies pertain to the previous three mentioned. and tolerance of any hobby matters to the tolerance level derived to the after effects of the first.

and baring that, you need to cater to the happy tee-totaling family types which are typicaly recovering members of the first hobby mentionedm who are only in town long enough for thier blessed little snowflakes to reach schooling age, then they are moving to the outlaying counties where the schools and conditions are "better" and "safer"

I am personally in the business of separating these nice people of their hard discretionary income...

but the folks living in town.. the DINKS... Duel Income, No Kids types like to try to make this beautiful historic, but very urban, city a suburban paradise with urban park, then walk to get drunk conveniences.

you mentioned 80db as standard issue regular city back ground noise? the fair leaders of our city have established a 60DB no tolerance initiative. the cops have actually been issued DB meters to enforce the rule.
its actually quite insane and the ACLU has been brought in on the matter.


its very VERY difficult to find a venue for anything that goes fast or makes a lot of noise around here, so I made it a point to not to push the issue, I play with vintage 0.49 engines but i gotta go about an hour out of my way to fly those wee little planes just to make sure I dont piss off the right person.

the lake the AMYC club I belong to uses has a specific no power rule. we can ONLY run sail out there. And upcoming Seawind RG3 nationals event was double booked, we booked it first, but WE have to give way for the charity walk.

its a tough row to hoe.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 07:41 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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And upcoming Seawind RG3 nationals event was double booked, we booked it first, but WE have to give way for the charity walk.
We've had that issue many times as well. Fortunately, Spreckels usually lies just outside the center of most concerts, festivals and such like things that happen and the charity walks and marathons pass us by but there is sometimes enough impact that we have to move events to another date.

We have similar situations to your dual income/no kids folks here in SF so I feel your discomfort with some of the things they do. Worse, many of ours are transient renters, students, young professionals and digerati with no local stake other than school or job, very NIMBY, pretty self-centered and in many cases very vocal and politically savvy.

The setting of a base level of 60db for a city is ludicrous when a car going by is 80db and the interior of your moving car is about 70db t0 75db. (BTW, I get my db levels from a variety of industrial and official sources, here is one such pdf.) You can't even measure a 60db noise source if your background is 70 or 80bd. We had similar situations in Cali as well. Local gomerments set environmental levels so low that the signal was lost in the Brownian noise of even the best detectors.

(UPDATE: One of the Irregulars has a db meter app on his iPhone - reads ambient background at the Lake during running hours as 73 to 77 decibels.)

There are lots of local councilors and others of the public who think the power of the state can turn back time and tide and very few as wise as King Knut of the Saxons who stood upon the seashore in his dripping shoes and cloak saying thus is the earthy power of Kings, Princes and the state.

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its a tough row to hoe.
Frustrating too.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 08:19 PM
made of fire and pop rocks
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Richmond Virginia
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Craig sir, you would be AMAZED at how very simular our two cities are, in fact... most people would be insanly amazed at how our little burgs are simular.

if you want to flop the west coast for the east coast.... LA would be DC, and RD would be SF.

of course, if Richmond were DC, then Petersburg would be Baltimore... but we wont speak of either Petersburg or Baltimore... its best that way.

but really RD is like SF in more ways than just what you speak of.. we have all THOSE issues, but we also have all the good stuff as well. including a native population of non migratory bums.

I recently had, as a regular at the pub, a young Gentleman who was independently wealthy, a SF native, who loved Richmond for all the similarities, but couldn't wait to get back to SF and "civilization"

we were glad to be done with the insufferable prick actually. so I'm sorry, it looks like we gave one back to you, we tried., honestly we did.

Unfortunately, the closest thing we have to an Emperor Norton is a 400lb drag queen that goes by the name of "Dirt Woman"

I just call him Donny, and tell him to take a bath every once in a while.

Well, I guess Fmr Gov Doug Wilder could fall under the description of power mad lunatic, but I don't want to give him any more credence than he already have comparing him favorably to Emp. Norton.


but, world class cuisine and Bar culture. incredible art scene. fairly liberal, live and live culture. years and years of interesting, unique, and excentric history...

we were the wild west of the eastern frontier. the founding fathers met here to plot the seeds of the revolutionary war because we were nothing but a treacherous inland port town and they could conduct their discussions in relative secrecy.

Saint johns Episcopal church, the church for which the church hill Nieghbor hood was named for, was the sight of the first Virgina Congress, where Patrick Henry gave his "give me Liberty or give me death" speech was chosen because it was the largest gathering hall available, and at the time it was smaller than most of our living rooms at the time. The resident population of the city was 625 souls.

it was a port town of transients and the biggest industry was tobacco warehouses and brothels.

y'all had gold, we had cured gold Virgina leaf.


so yeah... it's amusing that where great proclomations of Liberty that helped to found the nation has the polizai fussing at patio parties with DB meters and putting "known offenders" on google map search so thier neighbors can chastise them


sorry... rambling... on a local history kick because i'm doing research on a new line of local Urban Legend inspired beers... the Brewery is called Legend brewery company, and the tag line is "Legend has it..."
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 06:43 AM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
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Makin' friends by the Lake.

Was out the Lake this morning waiting go into a meeting with some of the other Club members about what's been going on vis--vis the go-fasties, chatting with <BobSF> by the shore where he was running his tug when I caught this scene of his boat making friends.

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