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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:28 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
That was no walk of shame, rather "the strut of pride" LOL So I see the way you want to go, you will be flipping the bird in no time.

OK so like the NFL I have done the instant replay slow-mo check @ magnification and it seemed like cyclic left got blipped on a FFF pass -or- a servo failure/RX gro failure which sent the wrong signal. Were you in Stunt mode or normal mode, if you were higher up you might have flipped around and might have been able to recover, but if not the crash would have been a frame breaker. I am still not confident with this V450 in stunt mode, generally the RX2702V coupled with the WK-09-09 MG servos does not instill confidence in me overall on the ground or in the air.

Im starting to think, with a beast-x and some good quality MG servos would bring that confidence level up. But........ before I do that. Might as well wait till next summer and get the TREX 3GX 450 that is out now.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:55 AM
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
generally the RX2702V coupled with the WK-09-09 MG servos does not instill confidence in me overall on the ground or in the air.

Im starting to think, with a beast-x and some good quality MG servos would bring that confidence level up.
I agree.

Even though it's never happened on my 2702v, it's happened often enough on my 2612 equipped helis that I would have totally believed it if he said he was at neutral stick, and the bird just decided to roll over and plant itself with no roll input commanded at all, because that's exactly what it looks like when my 4f200 has done it in the past.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:58 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Joined Jun 2011
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Ha ha! Thanks guys!

Actually, I think there was a gust which started the left roll, I tried to correct but added left when I meant right and instead of going negative pitch and keeping left aile I tried to correct and ffwwooopp.
Anyway I was in normal and I don't have any -ve pitch to talk of - maybe -1* tops so I was screwed. Then again, doing flips in training gear?? Who am I trying to kid??
Still I was pleased with things up to that point since it was the first time I've really flown it. Previously it was just backyard getting the hang of it stuff... hovering in other words!
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 02:26 PM
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How did that 60A ESC handle, does it run cool? Flew about 4 packs in the V450 Airwolf body. It is surprisingly running with a pretty cool stock ESC. Not sure why my other V450 is running so hot in the A109 body. By cool running I mean the Airwolf stock ESC is actually hot but I can press my finger against the middle of it for about 5 seconds before having to take it off. Can't do that with the A109 ESC. I notice the one-way bearing is stiff enough to make the motor turn either way so I have a replacement one-way bearing on order. Hope that is the cause on the A109...
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Last edited by urrl; Aug 13, 2011 at 02:33 PM.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 07:00 PM
Team WarpSquad
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Funny you should ask urrl. She left the house with the 60A attached and she returned with a 45A fitted. The 60 is still pushing way too much current into the motor and I have no idea why. The docs recommend governor mode but I'm reluctant to use it given what I've read, though it might be the only option if I want to use it's logging features.
Basically, at the moment the SuperBrain is an expensive mistake. The 45 is touchable as you describe and fitted in the same position as HF711 has shown. The way I see it is that if the motor isn't smoking then the ESC is well within it's limits.
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Last edited by thwaitm; Aug 13, 2011 at 09:25 PM.
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 04:11 PM
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I wonder what motor it will actually work with and if that motor is too big for the V450D01. I'm game if it will fit.
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 05:50 PM
Team WarpSquad
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I already bought a replacement for my partially fried stock motor from JustGoFly - 450TH http://www.justgofly.com/tech_450TH.htm which is a 3000KV 30A@3S motor. Not tried it yet but the reviews from Trex 450 owners are pretty good and it sounds like a reasonable match. The only thing is the wires and connectors seem a little lighweight for 30A. When I get chance I'll fit it to mine and see if I can tell any difference. (Of course, having the SuperBrain logging would have been good but I don't really trust it not to fry another motor).
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Old Aug 15, 2011, 08:20 AM
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Hopefully someone here can offer up some advice. I am a fairly new pilot with some experience on the Blade SR (crap I know), so I bought the V450 in hopes that it would be close to the Align model. I had maybe 4-5 flights on it when I crashed on a windy day, all in all only lost 2 servos (original 07 now 09 metal version) and broke the screw holding the cap on top of the head assembly. So not to bad, replaced everything trued it all back up, leveled it all, followed the recommended flybarless setup. However I took the bird to the field had a guy check it over. Immediately he said the controls acted like they were setup for Mode 1 which it wasn't, fixed that so that we were in good shape for a hover test. I let him fly since he is far more experienced and it was all he could do to hold it level and then get it back to the ground. He was having to keep the stick down and to the right just to maintain a level hover? Any ideas where I am going wrong? I have leveled everything numerous times and gone through the flybarless setup repeatedly with no luck. No local hobby shop will look at it and the guys at the field all say should have gone with Align - locally available and more help available everywhere. Can't spend the money on a new bird and radio so gotta make this thing fly somehow.
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Old Aug 15, 2011, 11:36 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V450Flyer View Post
The controls acted like they were setup for Mode 1
So you too encountered the error in the manual that tells you pitch is the front right servo when actually it's front left - and then swapped the RX aile/pit plugs to get it to work right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V450Flyer View Post
He was having to keep the stick down and to the right just to maintain a level hover? Any ideas where I am going wrong? I have leveled everything numerous times and gone through the flybarless setup repeatedly with no luck.
Did you replace just the two broken servos or a whole set of 3?

When you bind, are you setting all the trims to centre? Repeated trimmed binding can add trim over and over again until there's no travel left in the servo. (While talking about binding - have you set a dedicated ID? It's worth doing because binding is much quicker when you're turning on/off/adjusting this and that.)

How about when you level the swash - part 1 is to check the servo horns - are they all horizontal at mid-sticks? How much sub-trim have you had to use to line things up? Any? None?
Part 2 is to set 0deg pitch or more accurately, mid swash.
Part 3 is Aile (full right stick if I remember)
Part 4 is Elev (full forward)
You've got the red LED doing the flashing on the R2702V during all of that?

I assume the tail setting is OK - it caught me out the first time I tried but then I cottoned on to what I was meant to be doing; partly due to a green flashing LED never being mentioned in the manual!

How does your swash behave whilst on the ground? Is it going left and right, front and back like it should as you move the cyclic?
Are all the servos hopping the swash up and down nicely in sync like they should when you go to min-mid-max pitch?

I suggest you create a copy of the V450 settings in the TX and then set the pit curve to 0-50-50-50-100 and throttle to 0-0-0-0-0, this helps to see what those servos are doing. Good idea (Vital?) to remove the blades if you're getting close to the swash on a badly behaved bird too.

If everything appears to be working as it should then try picking the heli up and roll right & left and pitch fore & aft - does the swash react and try to compensate?

Do you get vibrations when it's spooling up or is it smooth enough?

I'll let you answer that before asking more...
Good luck and the guys (not seen any girls yet) are full of info here so I'm sure we'll have you fixed up soon.
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Old Aug 15, 2011, 05:45 PM
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Something really whacky happened the other day My WK-2801 Pro for no reason messed up the settings for my V450 with the A109 camo body. Not sure why. The Airwolf V450 still works fine so I am manually adjusting the servos on the A109 to match the Airwolf so I can fly them both on the same setting. If anyone ever spends any time in Ft Pierce Florida there is a great park on Citrus Avenue and Martin Luther King Blvd. The grass there is I guess designed for golf or soccer or something; they cut it really low and the texture of the grass is so fine and thin and short.
Airwolf 450 at Fort Pierce Park (1 min 31 sec)

By the way my Airwolf V450D01 mechanics are stock and the ESC remains at a very reasonable temp; I can push my finger on the center of the ESC and it will be 5 to 7 seconds before I must remove it directly after a flight. I can make flights directly back to back without the ESC overheating.


I am still trying to figure out why my A109 with the newer V450D01 mechanics has an overheating ESC. I am in the process of replacing the one way bearing which seems to be sticking.
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 08:46 AM
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thwaitm - Thanks for responding. Forgive stupid questions since I am new to alot of things in this hobby. We did run across that error in the manual - in general what connection location on the swash are the diff. positions? - i.e. left side is pitch, etc, etc.

I replaced all 3 servos to keep things consistent.

When I bind everything is set to center except the throttle trim, that is set to the lowest position and I never change it about that, when I do it engages the motor.I don't have a dedicated ID for the model but it usually binds within about 5 seconds most of the time anyway?

All servo horns are level, sub trim I am sure is all set to 0 - I was told I shouldn't need to use that if all things are level - just compounds problems in the air. Blades are at 0 deg at mid stick as best I can tell. The red stays on after first pressing the set button, once all is level I press again to get the green flashing light, set the first range full right hold then press, green light full forward hold press, then it flashes a few times and goes away.

I haven't messed with the tail setting because that seems to be fine.

The swash on the ground seems to operate normally - at first the servos were moving around erratically, but we managed to get something set right and they seemed to be fine.

I will make a copy of the settings to play with - seems like a good idea especially to keep the blades from spinning up without having to yank wires.

Funny thing the first time we picked it up and moved it around there wasn't much reaction, even the second time it didn't seem like a ton of compensation, but then again I have no idea what normal is?

There is 0 vibration when spooling up or down - everything runs smooth as butter, no noises or anything.

At this point any guy, girl, or questionable in-between that can help me get this bird off the ground is much appreciated in my book.... lol. I will run through everything listed here again and see what happens. Thanks again for the help.
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 09:59 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Joined Jun 2011
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*** This post is rubbish *** please ignore ***

Hi V450flyer,

Everything you say seems about right *EXCEPT* you mention a green led...

Green LED is Tail pitch setting mode not swash setting mode.
There's a tiny DIP switch that you have to move from Tail to Swash to permit the swash setting.
I'll try to make a vid...

***EDIT***
Ah - that's what you get doing things from memory! It seems you're right - Green LED is setting mode.
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Last edited by thwaitm; Aug 16, 2011 at 10:37 AM. Reason: going senile
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 10:09 AM
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Curious because the switch is definitely set to Sw. Set - each time after the second press of the set switch you get a blinking green light showing in the Elev. hole, then after setting that and pressing the set switch again you get a blinking green light in the Aile. hole, and lastly in the Rudd. hole. Then the red light flashes a few times and goes out - assumably because setup is done? When you first hit the set button for mechanical setup it flashes red and waits til you press the button then the red one flashes as well as the individual lights showing as green while adjusting as listed above. A video showing each step both on the reciever and what to do with the transmitter would be a major help. I saw on another site I should be adding up all the swashmix values using that total number to complete the setup first then adjust back from there? Where the heck is any of that listed in the manuals?
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 10:11 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Yeah - sorry I was talking out of my ae...
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 10:47 AM
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Ha ha no problem, was beginning to think I was the crazy one - either that or one with the crazy one-off receiver module. I have seen on other forums that you have to adjust your swashmix when doing the mechanical adjustment. The manual says nothing of this so why would I want/need to do this? Is there anything to it and could it account for the ill behavior that this bird exhibits now?
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