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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
Rain, I will suggest u to stick with beastx. 2703 would get u up in the air but will not serve u long. Do it once n for all and never have to worry bout the gyro anymore.

Anyone here using different fbl head n main shaft on their v450? Just don't understand y cheap brand costs more for parts. Thinking of changing the whole head to a common align head n using common 450 shafts.......one walkera main shaft is the same price as 2 genuine align dfc shafts.....which is stronger.... How does it work mate?
Well, i have been barking up this tree for a while now too. Walkera is not so freaking cheap. In fact, my v450 is the most expensive helicopter i own to date. And i own a freaking $1000 X5!!!!!

Anyway, I do plan on changing over to the Align DFC rotor head. The main problem is that the Align ball links and the Walkera ball links are a different size. One person a LONG time ago, in this thread put the DFC rotor on the v450 when it was first released in 450 size. Demonofpyro. I have not seem him post at all since then, really. But it seems like it works out pretty well. The only thing is, just like after installing Align/Savox servos. The swash linkage to servo horn geometry is off a bit. Demonofpyro was using Hi-tec servos if i remember correctly. But his geometry looks just about the same amount off as my Savox when i use the stock servo horn ball length.

Here is what will likely be needed for the rotor head conversion:

Align 450 DFC rotor head.
Align 450 DFC swashplate.
Align 450 DFC main shaft. (included in rotor kit, i think)
Align 450 main gear/ AR gear and OWB highly recommended. (cheaper to fix)
Align 450 Stainless Steel Linkage Rod H45047
Align 450 Ball Link set H45045
Align 450 Linkage Ball Set H45048

The 450 linkage ball set will have the right size balls to fit the linkages, but the normal sized ones are too short for proper geometry on the V450. You might have to modify your pitch and aileron servo horns to fit the longer set of 2 that come in the package, if you use Align/Savox/Hi-tec servos. The longer balls have a fatter screw on the back, where as the normal ones have a 1mm screw on the back to fit the Savox/Align servo horns. Not having proper geometry is not the end of the world. But it would be better to get it right. I am currently using the Blade 450 (long) balls on my servos to get the geometry close to correct. It's still not right. The two long balls on the V450 swash work better for proper geometry with the Walkera swash and upgraded servos though. I don't know if the Blade (long) balls will fit the Align ball links. I'm almost positive the swash balls from the v450 won't fit the Align ball links either. I'm just trying to draw out the rough draft of the things needed and what is required for this conversion. I will eventually get around to doing it myself, of course. Money and priority of my heli needs is preventing me from doing it yet though. Because i'm still buying batteries for my X5 and not making a lot of money in the colder season right now. Here are some pictured from Demonofpyro:













After looking closer at his pictures. It appears he started off in the first picture with the stock walkera servos installed. The swash linkage geometry is pretty much perfect(straight up and down) when he was using the V450 swash plate. But if i recall, he had to mix and match plastic linkages between Walkera and Align, to make it so the linkages would fit the balls correctly between the walkera swash and Align rotor head. He didn't want to fuss with this so he did eventually get a Align swashplate. That is when you can see in the next pictures that the geometry is now pretty far off (about 8-10, i would say). The heli will fly fine like this BTW. But like i said, you can install longer linkage balls on the pitch and aileron servo horns to get the geometry closer to correct, or maybe even perfect. I've even thought about getting some little stand-offs to extend the normal linkage balls. Something like these, but with a 1mm or 2mm screw size. I just have not found any yet:





Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Very nice flying IH!
I like your comfort in inverted flight. I'm slowly getting there but I need more grass to fly over
I'm still struggling to program myself on the inverted rudder!
Thank you. The inverted took me a while and LOTS of time inverted. The sim is where i really was able to cruise around inverted. Then i eventually was able to implement inverted flight (circuits/8s) on the V120 size. There i was able to become more comfortable with it. Even then, and when i was doing high speed 8s inverted in the sim and on the v120. I was still too terrified of crashing the v450 inverted. Until i actually started doing it. Then it became easier and easier very quickly. I took the same theory on the X5, which took me a little while after getting it before i would even try a inverted circuit with it. Inverted hover, sure. But not much more. Even though i was already doing circuits very well on the V450. Honestly, if you think i look comfortable here inverted. You should see me doing inverted funnels and hurricanes in the SIM! I'm honestly, still not very comfortable inverted on the X5 because it's so expensive. But the X5 really does handle much nicer and the big rotor makes these maneuvers easier to manage all axis at once. The thing i did to help rudder control inverted is this. I first practiced doing the inverted, nose in hover. Because that was the most comfortable for me. Then when i could hold that hover pretty well i went into moving the heli away(reverse) and forward toward me. Then during the forward movement, i would give slight rudder inputs to lightly turn the nose. The movement are small, but it's enough for my eyes to register whats going on and begin using that data to program my mind and muscles. Either way repetition is the key.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:17 AM
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nice one with dfc head. mayb a tarot dfc will do too. n cheaper.
intergrity, do u know how to assemble the tail rotor shaft? mine came in 4 pieces. one rod, 2 rings n a tooth gear, all separated. any idea how to put them together without damaging the rod? or do urs come assembled?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:30 AM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
nice one with dfc head. mayb a tarot dfc will do too. n cheaper.
intergrity, do u know how to assemble the tail rotor shaft? mine came in 4 pieces. one rod, 2 rings n a tooth gear, all separated. any idea how to put them together without damaging the rod? or do urs come assembled?
No, they don't come assembled anymore. I have purchased them in the past assembled though. Same with my 4f200 tail shafts.

I am also 95% certain that the Align 450 Sport tail shafts should fit and work just fine also. They are sold in pairs (x2) and i believe they come assembled for $8 a pair




However, i have not tried them. In theory they should fit and work just fine. The pulley is also made out of a harder material so the belt shouldn't wear down and round off the teeth as quickly.

As far as assembling the Walkera ones. You do need to take care when putting them together. Don't use a hammer. You need to use pressing force, and evenly. I used to use a work bench vise to press them together using some blocks of wood. You can view this in my build log under the "V450 Tail Section Assembly" section. This works good. But i recently got tired of going all the way out to my wood and metal workshop just to use the vise. So i tried something new. I now press them together using the Walkera pinion puller. It works pretty good if you remove the pinion puller's center pin and install the tail shaft inside the pinion puller (with grub screw removed). Then you can use the V cut plate under the pulley. You just turn the pinion puller and slowly press the shaft down through the pulley. Works great! You can pick up a Walkera pinion puller for about $10-15 if you don't have one already. I also use this to remove the tail rotor hub from the tail rotor shaft after i have locktite the crap out of it, onto the shaft. This honestly has been a much more useful tool then i expected. Besides using it to pull my micro V120 size pinions off the motors as well.



I don't see any reason why you couldn't use a Tarot or Alzrc DFC or SDC rotor head as well. But for me, the price difference is not great enough. Because i can pick up spares for Align just about anywhere. Tarot and Alzrc have limited distribution and most of it, i think, from outside the USA. So for me, i have to go Align for convenience and uniformity. Sheesh, before long this V450 will be an Align 450 with a 3mm CF airframe instead of a 1.2mm CF airframe (like the align 450 frame is).
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:30 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Stuff about DFC

....

Thank you. The inverted took me a while and LOTS of time inverted. The sim is where i really was able to cruise around inverted. Then i eventually was able to implement inverted flight (circuits/8s) on the V120 size. There i was able to become more comfortable with it. Even then, and when i was doing high speed 8s inverted in the sim and on the v120. I was still too terrified of crashing the v450 inverted. Until i actually started doing it. Then it became easier and easier very quickly. I took the same theory on the X5, which took me a little while after getting it before i would even try a inverted circuit with it. Inverted hover, sure. But not much more. Even though i was already doing circuits very well on the V450. Honestly, if you think i look comfortable here inverted. You should see me doing inverted funnels and hurricanes in the SIM! I'm honestly, still not very comfortable inverted on the X5 because it's so expensive. But the X5 really does handle much nicer and the big rotor makes these maneuvers easier to manage all axis at once. The thing i did to help rudder control inverted is this. I first practiced doing the inverted, nose in hover. Because that was the most comfortable for me. Then when i could hold that hover pretty well i went into moving the heli away(reverse) and forward toward me. Then during the forward movement, i would give slight rudder inputs to lightly turn the nose. The movement are small, but it's enough for my eyes to register whats going on and begin using that data to program my mind and muscles. Either way repetition is the key.
I just bought the rotor head and the shaft is included and I bought the DFC swash as well because I figured I might as well... of course, that was just after my last rebuild with a huge tail delay and now my 450 is tuned and flying well I am not going to mess about installing the DFC until the next crash!

I got quite comfortable with V120 flips the other week and I feel that I might be about to flip the 450... maybe I'll flip my master and V200 again a few times before the 450 but I had much better collective control and way less stick banging than previously making for an altogether more satisfying and graceful flip than ever before.

As for flying inverted, your training plan and mine seem to be pretty similar. I am ok with left right inverted, forward back - still a little programming to do and rudder work will probably click in a session or two - I can feel my mind working at it but of course, I still get left and right muddled and it's about 40 years I've been trying to remember that!
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:39 AM
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I've changed the tail rotor rod just then n now the tail servo is moving in reversed direction.... any clue?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I just bought the rotor head and the shaft is included and I bought the DFC swash as well because I figured I might as well... of course, that was just after my last rebuild with a huge tail delay and now my 450 is tuned and flying well I am not going to mess about installing the DFC until the next crash!

I got quite comfortable with V120 flips the other week and I feel that I might be about to flip the 450... maybe I'll flip my master and V200 again a few times before the 450 but I had much better collective control and way less stick banging than previously making for an altogether more satisfying and graceful flip than ever before.

As for flying inverted, your training plan and mine seem to be pretty similar. I am ok with left right inverted, forward back - still a little programming to do and rudder work will probably click in a session or two - I can feel my mind working at it but of course, I still get left and right muddled and it's about 40 years I've been trying to remember that!
You know. I wonder if my high amount of ambidexterity had really helped me with this. Though the trade off is i'm dyslexic. So i can use both hands for almost anything. But i still end up doing everything backwards. So what the hell man! (lol, just kidding)
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
I've changed the tail rotor rod just then n now the tail servo is moving in reversed direction.... any clue?
You know what.. I had the same thing happen to me last weekend. I couldn't figure it out at all. My gyro AND tx both ended up working the opposite way i've had them set the whole time. All i did was change the tail shaft and tried to do a hover test. The heli did not feel right. I looked it over and found the same thing you did. I never could figure it out. I just flipped my reverse switches and checked everything and went flying. Really, really weird.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 03:55 AM
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hahaha that's the way mate. reverse it n start flying. the servo arm direction seems right but when I put on the throttle it is on the opposite direction..... I dunno what's wrong. maybe I'm looking at heli n parts for too many hours these days n my mind starts playing up.....

who on earth would have dreams of flying a heli, thinking about flying when at work, at the gym or even in the toilet..... wth...... I guess u guys r the same muahahahah
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Yep ,the dfc head looked good on the v450 , i flew with demoofpryo In nc a few months ago. He lived miles from my bros house, i think i have video of the 2 v450s flying together,
the head made the heli look very different,

Well i know its not real without video but i did my first half piro flip, i say that because i havnt tryed to piro flip into inverted, just out. But no wrecks while trying with nano, and thatsna squirlly heli! I will soon put to the collect and get video soon.

Its almost xmas time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Well, i have been barking up this tree for a while now too. Walkera is not so freaking cheap. In fact, my v450 is the most expensive helicopter i own to date. And i own a freaking $1000 X5!!!!!

Anyway, I do plan on changing over to the Align DFC rotor head. The main problem is that the Align ball links and the Walkera ball links are a different size. One person a LONG time ago, in this thread put the DFC rotor on the v450 when it was first released in 450 size. Demonofpyro. I have not seem him post at all since then, really. But it seems like it works out pretty well. The only thing is, just like after installing Align/Savox servos. The swash linkage to servo horn geometry is off a bit. Demonofpyro was using Hi-tec servos if i remember correctly. But his geometry looks just about the same amount off as my Savox when i use the stock servo horn ball length.

Here is what will likely be needed for the rotor head conversion:

Align 450 DFC rotor head.
Align 450 DFC swashplate.
Align 450 DFC main shaft. (included in rotor kit, i think)
Align 450 main gear/ AR gear and OWB highly recommended. (cheaper to fix)
Align 450 Stainless Steel Linkage Rod H45047
Align 450 Ball Link set H45045
Align 450 Linkage Ball Set H45048

The 450 linkage ball set will have the right size balls to fit the linkages, but the normal sized ones are too short for proper geometry on the V450. You might have to modify your pitch and aileron servo horns to fit the longer set of 2 that come in the package, if you use Align/Savox/Hi-tec servos. The longer balls have a fatter screw on the back, where as the normal ones have a 1mm screw on the back to fit the Savox/Align servo horns. Not having proper geometry is not the end of the world. But it would be better to get it right. I am currently using the Blade 450 (long) balls on my servos to get the geometry close to correct. It's still not right. The two long balls on the V450 swash work better for proper geometry with the Walkera swash and upgraded servos though. I don't know if the Blade (long) balls will fit the Align ball links. I'm almost positive the swash balls from the v450 won't fit the Align ball links either. I'm just trying to draw out the rough draft of the things needed and what is required for this conversion. I will eventually get around to doing it myself, of course. Money and priority of my heli needs is preventing me from doing it yet though. Because i'm still buying batteries for my X5 and not making a lot of money in the colder season right now. Here are some pictured from Demonofpyro:













After looking closer at his pictures. It appears he started off in the first picture with the stock walkera servos installed. The swash linkage geometry is pretty much perfect(straight up and down) when he was using the V450 swash plate. But if i recall, he had to mix and match plastic linkages between Walkera and Align, to make it so the linkages would fit the balls correctly between the walkera swash and Align rotor head. He didn't want to fuss with this so he did eventually get a Align swashplate. That is when you can see in the next pictures that the geometry is now pretty far off (about 8-10, i would say). The heli will fly fine like this BTW. But like i said, you can install longer linkage balls on the pitch and aileron servo horns to get the geometry closer to correct, or maybe even perfect. I've even thought about getting some little stand-offs to extend the normal linkage balls. Something like these, but with a 1mm or 2mm screw size. I just have not found any yet:







Thank you. The inverted took me a while and LOTS of time inverted. The sim is where i really was able to cruise around inverted. Then i eventually was able to implement inverted flight (circuits/8s) on the V120 size. There i was able to become more comfortable with it. Even then, and when i was doing high speed 8s inverted in the sim and on the v120. I was still too terrified of crashing the v450 inverted. Until i actually started doing it. Then it became easier and easier very quickly. I took the same theory on the X5, which took me a little while after getting it before i would even try a inverted circuit with it. Inverted hover, sure. But not much more. Even though i was already doing circuits very well on the V450. Honestly, if you think i look comfortable here inverted. You should see me doing inverted funnels and hurricanes in the SIM! I'm honestly, still not very comfortable inverted on the X5 because it's so expensive. But the X5 really does handle much nicer and the big rotor makes these maneuvers easier to manage all axis at once. The thing i did to help rudder control inverted is this. I first practiced doing the inverted, nose in hover. Because that was the most comfortable for me. Then when i could hold that hover pretty well i went into moving the heli away(reverse) and forward toward me. Then during the forward movement, i would give slight rudder inputs to lightly turn the nose. The movement are small, but it's enough for my eyes to register whats going on and begin using that data to program my mind and muscles. Either way repetition is the key.
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Last edited by Heli Biggie; Dec 19, 2012 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I don't see any reason why you couldn't use a Tarot or Alzrc DFC or SDC rotor head as well. But for me, the price difference is not great enough. Because i can pick up spares for Align just about anywhere. Tarot and Alzrc have limited distribution and most of it, i think, from outside the USA. So for me, i have to go Align for convenience and uniformity. Sheesh, before long this V450 will be an Align 450 with a 3mm CF airframe instead of a 1.2mm CF airframe (like the align 450 frame is).
Here's a good source for Tarot parts in San Diego.

http://tarot-rc-heli.com/index.php?route=common/home
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
hahaha that's the way mate. reverse it n start flying. the servo arm direction seems right but when I put on the throttle it is on the opposite direction..... I dunno what's wrong. maybe I'm looking at heli n parts for too many hours these days n my mind starts playing up.....

who on earth would have dreams of flying a heli, thinking about flying when at work, at the gym or even in the toilet..... wth...... I guess u guys r the same muahahahah
Yeah, i don't know if i ever dreamed i was flying a heli. But i do think about it a lot. But it's typically about the repairs and setup. I also have a few designs kicking around in my head, as i plan on one day trying to build something from scratch. Basically with aluminum stock and hardware, bearings and probably some purchased blades. But i kind of want to build something like the redbull cobra. You know, just to do it. I don't even want to fly something like that, because it's probably going to have a hard time getting power to mass ratio high enough to do 3D. But having a super scale heli that i can't even fit in the back of my ford ranger would be a fun build for me

Thinking about it though. I don't have to think or dream about flying. I'm very lucky, if i only have that one blessing. It's something most people would LOVE to be privileged with in this hobby. I have unlimited places to fly within 10 minutes from my home and, this year anyway, i've had LOTS of time to fly too. Though one of these days, I suppose i should really get back to reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Yep ,the dfc head looked good on the v450 , i flew with demoofpryo In nc a few months ago. He lived miles from my bros house, i think i have video of the 2 v450s flying together,
the head made the heli look very different,

Well i know its not real without video but i did my first half piro flip, i say that because i havnt tryed to piro flip into inverted, just out. But no wrecks while trying with nano, and thatsna squirlly heli! I will soon put to the collect and get video soon.

Its almost xmas time!
Nice, honestly. I have no clue how to even begin getting into piro flips. Because i've never seen anyone doing them slow and explaining exactly how they are done. I've seen people online with simulators go "here is how you do a piro flip" but all you see on the TX is them holding the rudder hard to the right and changing pitch up and down from there, while making circles with the cyclic... So i've tried in the SIM multiple times to emulate their movements. But half the time the heli just spins and won't flip or some such nonsense. So, i figure, like how dancing was for me, eventually the moves will end up coming naturally as i become more experienced. Because i sure as hell can't cognitively figure that one out. There is even a demo in Phoenix that shows how to do them and you can turn on the on screen TX and watch the stick movement. All i end up doing is trying to copy the stick movements with no luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
Here's a good source for Tarot parts in San Diego.

http://tarot-rc-heli.com/index.php?route=common/home
Thank you, thank you. I don't know if i will be using their rotor head or not, since it really isn't all that much cheaper. Though i do like how it comes in different colors besides black and blue. But i do plan on ordering the thrust bearing tail hub and grips for my V450, one day. I'm sure they will fit. I hope anyway.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
I've changed the tail rotor rod just then n now the tail servo is moving in reversed direction.... any clue?
You probably put the tail rotor hub on backwards.
Take it off the tail shaft, and rotate it 180 deg., and put it back on.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
You probably put the tail rotor hub on backwards.
Take it off the tail shaft, and rotate it 180 deg., and put it back on.
But wouldn't that mean the blades would be facing the other way? In my case i had removed the whole blade grips from the hub. Then reinstalled everything, blades the right way and everything. But the entire control was reversed, gyro, TX, everything. I'm stumped.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Nice, honestly. I have no clue how to even begin getting into piro flips. Because i've never seen anyone doing them slow and explaining exactly how they are done. I've seen people online with simulators go "here is how you do a piro flip" but all you see on the TX is them holding the rudder hard to the right and changing pitch up and down from there, while making circles with the cyclic... So i've tried in the SIM multiple times to emulate their movements. But half the time the heli just spins and won't flip or some such nonsense. So, i figure, like how dancing was for me, eventually the moves will end up coming naturally as i become more experienced. Because i sure as hell can't cognitively figure that one out. There is even a demo in Phoenix that shows how to do them and you can turn on the on screen TX and watch the stick movement. All i end up doing is trying to copy the stick movements with no luck.
This might help, I dunno. It seems simple the way he explains it. But I haven't attempted it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=P05Q6HeoSek
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
This might help, I dunno. It seems simple the way he explains it. But I haven't attempted it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=P05Q6HeoSek
PERFECT. Just what i was looking for. Every other one i watched basically assumes you understand the basics of the move to start with. Like how to START performing the move, then how it should end. Like dancing, there is usually individual steps. When performed by a experienced person it may look to be a smooth continuous motion. Obviously, we all know that is not the case. But getting someone to break down the individual steps is all i needed. I think i should be able to knock the basics of this out in a week or two, on the sim anyway... for now.
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