Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:01 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,713 Posts
Some posts back it was discussed that basically, no-one here would actually recommend anyone to go and buy a V450D01. We have all become slightly attached to ours because of the pain they have put us through and what we have learnt from them but basically, the servos, ESC and motor are not very durable. The RX2702V(-D) isn't bad but it's 2 years old now. There are better gyro units available.

The biggest question is, what's your budget and can you build a kit? I thought I didn't have time to build a heli from a kit but actually, there are fewer parts to these than your average plastic kit (e.g. Tamiya, and showing my age -Airfix, etc) and they don't need painting.
Building it from scratch is basically something you'll have to do the first time you have a major crash anyway and if you've put it together yourself it'll be faster and easier plus you actually get instructions about how to do it - you don't get that with a ARF/BNF.
thwaitm is offline Find More Posts by thwaitm
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:13 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain4LA View Post
Hey IntegrityHndywrk, you seem like a knowledgeable and helpful guy. I just have read so many of your threads talking so badly about the Walkera 450's that I'm pretty much scared off at this point. I get it that you like the airframe on the D01, and pretty much think everything else should be replaced. Is there an ARF/BNF that you would suggest to a beginner (while I've got some money) over a Walkera? Thunder Tiger maybe? I was looking at the Walkera D01, or even D03. I know your opinion on the latter, but that plastic that's like the plastic on the Master CP is super durable. Any suggestions? Thanks.
All the bigger helicopters are best to build yourself and use most of your money on the electronics. This can be a huge learning experience for you too. Learnign everything about how a heli goes together will have you less timid in the air, not worrying about weather or not you can fix the thing or whatever is one less thing.

These damn 2702V rx/gyro units continue to be the bane of my existence! The two i have right now work fine 98% of the time. But both of them have randomly locked me out for a second then come back on line. During that second none of my inputs work and it darts off in the last direction given. So far it has happened at high load moments only. Usually when I'm doing tick tocks or hard fast loops with nearly full throttle climb outs. Honestly, it could just be my cheap Turnigy batteries too. Both of these things put me in odd positions and far away too. I'd bet under "normal" flight they wouldn't be doing that. I recently crashed my newer one, which really made me want to go ahead and sell it once i have it back to 100%. But i was kind of hoping to sell it with the TX. If your seriously interested, I'll sell it to you. Send me a PM and we can talk negotiate and work it out. But, I'll even be here for constant technical support for you. IF you really wanted to pay shipping here and back i would even do repairs for you if you cant handle them, after buying it. I know, i'm the worst sales man ever. But i honestly would go pick a kit and build one. This heli is VERY nice with upgraded servos, that were brand new. It also has a upgraded motor and ESC from the stock versions. I think for learning purposes it will work out for you and the repairs are SUPER cheap. I usually get by under $30 for a crash repair. It's usually not more than $40. That is if i have to replace the skids, canopy, main gear, main shaft and blades. But i straighten my own shafts, so i save a little on those. But the 2702V installed on this heli flew great for about 10-15 flights, which is all the heli has ever really had in it's life. Then all of a sudden this happened the other day. I don't know what made me take this one out and fly it instead of my normal white one. I guess i just wanted to see yellow this day. But i should have just left it in the car..

Y-V450D01C - Crash - 12-04-12 (2 min 38 sec)


The damage was honestly only the main blades, swash follower and the main shaft had a slight bend. Even the main gear managed to survive. The servos didn't take any damage that i can tell. One servo horn broke free, which is actually a protection feature of the Savox servo horns.

Now, every singe 2702V i have owned has done this RANDOMLY at least once at some point. Even with different ESCs. Which means my flight style could play a large role in triggering this event. It's very hard to say for sure.

I did not know Thunder Tiger produced "RTF" heli. I have heard good things about them but i have no knowledge of them. Most RTF helicopters are produced to be cheap just to get people going for a cheaper price. If you have the money and can be patient about it. I would go the kit route. Even if you don't have the money, my advise is to save up. Clone kits out there are pretty cheap and if you buy the right electronics they can be very reliable too. But that often ends up bumping the price up. But with the money you save on the name brand kit's airframe. You can afford to spend more on better equipment. It's best to find someone's build log and follow it instead of instructions. Often they have a lot more useful info in more detail with pictures or video. I'm glad to help you out no matter what you want to do. I know RTF packages are appealing because of their immediate flight ability and if you don't know how to build them, it can be frustrating having such a large learning curve. But it's best to learn sooner than later in this hobby how to build and repair. Because it will probably save you money in the long run. If you build your first heli and get in the air you will also have a sense of accomplishment and pride you simply don't get with a RTF. There is also the added value of knowing everything was assembled correctly and thread locked,etc. I know it can be intimidating. Honestly if your going to get a Walkera 450 though. Your probably better off getting mine over a wow hobbies or store bought version with the stock equipment. It would be even better if you bought mine and then sold the 2702V off of it and bought a RX and separate gyro like the BeastX or 3GX. Even one of the cheaper Robird or Tarot ZYX gyros would be better than a 2702. I am just in love with BeastX myself though. From setup to performance, it's been easy and great so far on my Gaui X5. Which i also HIGHLY recommend for a kit consideration. They are SUPER easy builds. But it's a lot bigger than a 450. More powerful, more stable. It feels lighter because of the power output it has. But it's a big intimidating heli. You might look at the Gaui X2 also. It's a 250 class heli but is a big 250.

Just so you know. The V450D03/ "NEW" V450D01 can only be upgraded with servos that are an exact match to the walkera servos. The Walkera servos probably won't last more than 10-20 flights. I think most people with experience would agree with me on this, some would argue that i'm being optimistic. Options are limited for cyclic servo replacement. All i'm saying is with the new RX on the new 450 helicopters by Walkera. They did everything possible to prevent people from buying and installing Align/Savox servos on cyclic anymore. Because they removed the option to reverse gyro throws. Without that, your basically stuck with stock servos. But some people have found a few kinds that are drop in replacements for them. I just have no idea how well they work or how long they will last.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Dec 07, 2012 at 01:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:15 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Some posts back it was discussed that basically, no-one here would actually recommend anyone to go and buy a V450D01. We have all become slightly attached to ours because of the pain they have put us through and what we have learnt from them but basically, the servos, ESC and motor are not very durable. The RX2702V(-D) isn't bad but it's 2 years old now. There are better gyro units available.

The biggest question is, what's your budget and can you build a kit? I thought I didn't have time to build a heli from a kit but actually, there are fewer parts to these than your average plastic kit (e.g. Tamiya, and showing my age -Airfix, etc) and they don't need painting.
Building it from scratch is basically something you'll have to do the first time you have a major crash anyway and if you've put it together yourself it'll be faster and easier plus you actually get instructions about how to do it - you don't get that with a ARF/BNF.
What he said....
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:11 AM
Registered User
Rain4LA's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Nov 2012
331 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
All the bigger helicopters are best to build yourself and use most of your money on the electronics. This can be a huge learning experience for you too. Learnign everything about how a heli goes together will have you less timid in the air, not worrying about weather or not you can fix the thing or whatever is one less thing.

These damn 2702V rx/gyro units continue to be the bane of my existence! The two i have right now work fine 98% of the time. But both of them have randomly locked me out for a second then come back on line. During that second none of my inputs work and it darts off in the last direction given. So far it has happened at high load moments only. Usually when I'm doing tick tocks or hard fast loops with nearly full throttle climb outs. Honestly, it could just be my cheap Turnigy batteries too. Both of these things put me in odd positions and far away too. I'd bet under "normal" flight they wouldn't be doing that. I recently crashed my newer one, which really made me want to go ahead and sell it once i have it back to 100%. But i was kind of hoping to sell it with the TX. If your seriously interested, I'll sell it to you. Send me a PM and we can talk negotiate and work it out. But, I'll even be here for constant technical support for you. IF you really wanted to pay shipping here and back i would even do repairs for you if you cant handle them, after buying it. I know, i'm the worst sales man ever. But i honestly would go pick a kit and build one. This heli is VERY nice with upgraded servos, that were brand new. It also has a upgraded motor and ESC from the stock versions. I think for learning purposes it will work out for you and the repairs are SUPER cheap. I usually get by under $30 for a crash repair. It's usually not more than $40. That is if i have to replace the skids, canopy, main gear, main shaft and blades. But i straighten my own shafts, so i save a little on those. But the 2702V installed on this heli flew great for about 10-15 flights, which is all the heli has ever really had in it's life. Then all of a sudden this happened the other day. I don't know what made me take this one out and fly it instead of my normal white one. I guess i just wanted to see yellow this day. But i should have just left it in the car..

http://youtu.be/y5Lwe3B_8EQ

The damage was honestly only the main blades, swash follower and the main shaft had a slight bend. Even the main gear managed to survive. The servos didn't take any damage that i can tell. One servo horn broke free, which is actually a protection feature of the Savox servo horns.

Now, every singe 2702V i have owned has done this RANDOMLY at least once at some point. Even with different ESCs. Which means my flight style could play a large role in triggering this event. It's very hard to say for sure.

I did not know Thunder Tiger produced "RTF" heli. I have heard good things about them but i have no knowledge of them. Most RTF helicopters are produced to be cheap just to get people going for a cheaper price. If you have the money and can be patient about it. I would go the kit route. Even if you don't have the money, my advise is to save up. Clone kits out there are pretty cheap and if you buy the right electronics they can be very reliable too. But that often ends up bumping the price up. But with the money you save on the name brand kit's airframe. You can afford to spend more on better equipment. It's best to find someone's build log and follow it instead of instructions. Often they have a lot more useful info in more detail with pictures or video. I'm glad to help you out no matter what you want to do. I know RTF packages are appealing because of their immediate flight ability and if you don't know how to build them, it can be frustrating having such a large learning curve. But it's best to learn sooner than later in this hobby how to build and repair. Because it will probably save you money in the long run. If you build your first heli and get in the air you will also have a sense of accomplishment and pride you simply don't get with a RTF. There is also the added value of knowing everything was assembled correctly and thread locked,etc. I know it can be intimidating. Honestly if your going to get a Walkera 450 though. Your probably better off getting mine over a wow hobbies or store bought version with the stock equipment. It would be even better if you bought mine and then sold the 2702V off of it and bought a RX and separate gyro like the BeastX or 3GX. Even one of the cheaper Robird or Tarot ZYX gyros would be better than a 2702. I am just in love with BeastX myself though. From setup to performance, it's been easy and great so far on my Gaui X5. Which i also HIGHLY recommend for a kit consideration. They are SUPER easy builds. But it's a lot bigger than a 450. More powerful, more stable. It feels lighter because of the power output it has. But it's a big intimidating heli. You might look at the Gaui X2 also. It's a 250 class heli but is a big 250.

Just so you know. The V450D03/ "NEW" V450D01 can only be upgraded with servos that are an exact match to the walkera servos. The Walkera servos probably won't last more than 10-20 flights. I think most people with experience would agree with me on this, some would argue that i'm being optimistic. Options are limited for cyclic servo replacement. All i'm saying is with the new RX on the new 450 helicopters by Walkera. They did everything possible to prevent people from buying and installing Align/Savox servos on cyclic anymore. Because they removed the option to reverse gyro throws. Without that, your basically stuck with stock servos. But some people have found a few kinds that are drop in replacements for them. I just have no idea how well they work or how long they will last.
Listen, I really appreciate the time and attention that you put into your answer. You're obviously dedicated to the hobby - and to helping people like myself. That's the kind of thing that can make it possible for a beginner like me (at 49 years old) to pursue a hobby that can be very intimidating. And speaking of intimidating - yes - I am intimidated by building a kit. But I've got a little time right now, and I've got a little money - which I consider both to be luxuries of the highest order. So if ever there was a time in my life to take on a project like this - it's now. The fact that you're willing to freely answer questions, and also that you understand some of the intimidation factor, gives me some confidence to move forward.

So just hypothetically, if you had a choice of buying and building a kit - where would you start and what components would you include? ALZRC? ALIGN? I know you like the BeastX gyro, and I've heard nothing but good things about them. I figure if I start now, and keep practicing with my indoor helicopters this winter, I'll be ready to go out and try a 450 in the Spring.

Thanks again for your help.

Also, I don't have a lipo balancer, and every time I start reading about which one to get, I get more confused. Any help would definitely be good. Are there any major differences? Somewhere in the $100 range?
Rain4LA is offline Find More Posts by Rain4LA
Last edited by Rain4LA; Dec 07, 2012 at 10:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:00 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,713 Posts
I've got a 208B iCharger and I can't fault it.

I think if you start a thread for your build then we'd all be happy to help out.

Depends on your budget and also if parts are easily available at your LHS but any Align or Align clone would be ok for sure.
We like Savox servos and Castle ICE 50A ESCs (though there are other decent ESCs out there too).
thwaitm is offline Find More Posts by thwaitm
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 02:01 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,087 Posts
+1. Mine had a twitch from the beginning. It was only a matter of time till the tail servo went out also. 30 flights !

I just order 3 walkera ladybirds for family memebers , i bought my dad one last year and its a fun easy flyer. Smart move walkera...no servos,lol. Xheli has them on sale for 50 bucks with tx. Thats a great deal.
Sorry about your wreak integrity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Some posts back it was discussed that basically, no-one here would actually recommend anyone to go and buy a V450D01. We have all become slightly attached to ours because of the pain they have put us through and what we have learnt from them but basically, the servos, ESC and motor are not very durable. The RX2702V(-D) isn't bad but it's 2 years old now. There are better gyro units available.

The biggest question is, what's your budget and can you build a kit? I thought I didn't have time to build a heli from a kit but actually, there are fewer parts to these than your average plastic kit (e.g. Tamiya, and showing my age -Airfix, etc) and they don't need painting.
Building it from scratch is basically something you'll have to do the first time you have a major crash anyway and if you've put it together yourself it'll be faster and easier plus you actually get instructions about how to do it - you don't get that with a ARF/BNF.
Heli Biggie is offline Find More Posts by Heli Biggie
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 04:44 PM
Registered User
Rain4LA's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Nov 2012
331 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I've got a 208B iCharger and I can't fault it.

I think if you start a thread for your build then we'd all be happy to help out.

Depends on your budget and also if parts are easily available at your LHS but any Align or Align clone would be ok for sure.
We like Savox servos and Castle ICE 50A ESCs (though there are other decent ESCs out there too).
Thanks man!
Rain4LA is offline Find More Posts by Rain4LA
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:43 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain4LA View Post
Listen, I really appreciate the time and attention that you put into your answer. You're obviously dedicated to the hobby - and to helping people like myself. That's the kind of thing that can make it possible for a beginner like me (at 49 years old) to pursue a hobby that can be very intimidating. And speaking of intimidating - yes - I am intimidated by building a kit. But I've got a little time right now, and I've got a little money - which I consider both to be luxuries of the highest order. So if ever there was a time in my life to take on a project like this - it's now. The fact that you're willing to freely answer questions, and also that you understand some of the intimidation factor, gives me some confidence to move forward.

So just hypothetically, if you had a choice of buying and building a kit - where would you start and what components would you include? ALZRC? ALIGN? I know you like the BeastX gyro, and I've heard nothing but good things about them. I figure if I start now, and keep practicing with my indoor helicopters this winter, I'll be ready to go out and try a 450 in the Spring.

Thanks again for your help.

Also, I don't have a lipo balancer, and every time I start reading about which one to get, I get more confused. Any help would definitely be good. Are there any major differences? Somewhere in the $100 range?
Oh boy, this is going to be a big one.. Look out!

For a 450 there are LOTS of options for chargers. I've only owned two so far and sold one. Both were hobbyking products. I think the first one worked a little better than my current one. Since charging packs in series or parallel can be dangerous (i still do it) i prefer to have what is called a 4 x 6S charger. They are typically 200 watt chargers but they are basically 4 individual charging ports that can charge any size battery up to 6S. So you can plug in 4 packs for your 450 and charge them safely in about an hour. You can also parallel two packs on each port of the charger and charge 6 3S packs at once, in about an hour. The man reason i like the 4 x 6S type chargers is versatility. I fly a few different size batteries on 5 different helicopters. So i can charge any of them as well as multiple types and sizes all at once.




Okay, so basically any decent charger will work. Some brands will work better and balance better. Some will have more features, like being able to test the batteries internal resistance. That is a VERY useful feature so you have a representation of how quickly your packs are degrading. There are all kinds of single port chargers and multi port chargers. But you also will need a power supply unit to power it. You can read through and watch a video i posted over on the V Clone project thread . If you flip to the next page after this one, you will also find where i posted a PSU i found online for only $9. It's a pretty easy conversion if you know how to solder.

here are the two chargers i have owned. I think i liked the first one more, but i didn't own it long enough to know. I bought it to test out, but someone i knew wanted it. So i marked it up and sold it. Here are the links to them:

This one is available in the US warehouse:


This is the newer version Turnigy charger. The one i am currently using. Though this is a 400 watt charger. I think mine is only 200. I could be confused on that though. The higher the wattage, the higher the charge output capability. Meaning you can charge more packs at the same time in parallel and things like that. I plan on getting this new version myself because it's the only 4 x 6S charger i've seen @ 400 watts so far. I'm pretty sure anyway. My last one i had to order off someone on Ebay because they were ALWAYS out of stock and only carried at the overseas warehouses from hobbyking.



You may also need to solder your own battery plugs, charger plugs for this charger and a variety of other things when dealing with this hobby, especially custom builds.

Did i mention you should learn how to solder? It's very useful and actually may be required for you to complete building a kit. But often times, LHS or someone like myself can help you out with that. I of course can, and will give you a hand if i can. But you have to cover shipping costs. It's probably best to get a soldering iron and watch a few youtube videos about it. It's very easy actually..


Okay, about your kit. Which one you pick can end up being a preference for yourself. I personally would get a Align, flat out. If i were endeavoring into a 450 again for the first time. While i have been watching Tarot and Alzrc for clone builds. I think sooner or later people will stop calling them "clone kits". Because honestly they are just a little different from most other "clone" companies. The way i'm looking at it is like this. Other companies "Clone" Align. But these two "Copy" Align. So, instead of just casting a mold and directly cloning Align parts. They "copy" the design but make some of their own changes. Even it it's only aesthetic changes. For me this makes them legitimately their own brand. In the eyes of trademark, copy write and patent office law. I'm pretty sure the same concept holds true. It's legitimately your own design if you change a certain % of the original design. Okay enough with that informative nonsense.


The Align kit will come with EVERYTHING you immediately need. Align uses pretty good electronics, but they are basically the bare minimum to have a happy reliable heli that won't just fall out of the sky on you and at the same time will perform great. It comes with Align(savox) servos already, a ESC and your 3GX gyro. You will have to buy a RX for it. If you already have a TX you can just pick up a RX for your TX and when the build is done it should all install, for the most part. Effortlessly. If you know how to use a screw driver and follow directions. The actual helicopter build will be easy. There are 10000 build logs out there and many people who understand and use the heli regularly too. Unlike some of the clones which are likely to have an array of different components installed. All mixed and matched. I think the most frustrating part of a heli build is when it comes time to program the ESC and gyro. Apart from maybe not knowing how to soldering or something like that. Plus Align comes with directions to build. Clones often just come with a pile of parts and a little card enclosed that simply says "good luck buddy", if your lucky, that is.

So that is my honest opinion about what i think YOU should do. Because Align is also available on the street corner, at the LHS or at any online shop. Some of them probably close to where you live. HOWEVER... Alzrc has seriously cought my eye with these two heli. The Alzrc Devil 450 and 480. They "cloned" the look of the SAB goblin. But it still uses standard Align type gearing for the main drive system. The heli looks nice, but it's probably a little heavier because of the Fiberglass tail boom and big canopy. I myself am considering building one of these 480 devils. This is a pretty cool looking build! Should be a mega powerhouse too! It's a 450 class helicopter that flies a 6S pack instead of a 3S pack and is able to use 360mm main blades instead of 325mm mains. This heli should be a serious beast! Plus it looks cool.



Now the things to consider with this particular heli is that it is a 6S heli. So the batteries will cost you a lot more. Minimum of around $65 a pack. Instead the $9.99 i'm paying for my 450's 3S packs. But Alzrc also makes a regular 3S version of this heli too. It depends on how much and how hard of 3D you might eventually one day fly with it. If you think it's going to be a year or longer before you are doing any 3D. I would go with the 3S version. Only because of the extra costs. Here is the 3s version:




I think these helicopters come in different colors too, just FYI. Also the pictures are links to the web site.

As far as standard equipment i would install in either of these Alzrc helicopters. I would go with a Castle Creations ICE 50 or Hobbywing Platinum Pro 40A ESC for the 3S setup. Or for 6S the same brands and models, just the 100A versions. Of course you know i would recommend the BeastX. But if your looking to go cheaper. People are having good reviews about the Robird g31. They are always sold out it seems at hobbyking. The Tarox ZYX is another option too. Also someone just recommended i might want to try this new Gyro i never heard of, by a clone company i never heard of. It's the VCTRC 3gx gyro. Supposedly it's a BeastX clone. I don't know much about them but this is the link i was given for the discussion about it: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=vctrc

For me, i'm just sick of spending money on something i expect to work, then it doesn't. Thats why i will ONLY invest in a beastX for a helicopter i really care about. At least till i can verify other brands are just as good(myself). Though i do honestly plan on trying some of the cheaper gyros i just mentioned. But only in my 450 that i don't care if it crashes, and only to review the gyros. Not for actually long term investment and use. In fact i wish i could just buy them and resell them or something so i can test them out and review them for free. But i don't want to end up stuck with them like i did my V450s At least this time when i do venture into this testing and reviewing endeavor. I will be entering it completely expecting that the gyros are a total pile and complete failure. If i get a different result and they work great, then i can report my findings and feel confident in using them, maybe give some others a cheaper way around the $200 BeastX gyros. Maybe i am just a "fan boy", and maybe i do like to show off a little bit. But i will only be using BeastX in my serious machines, regardless, from now on. Just because it is quality and i LOVE the name and free stickers i got with it I like stickers. This is one reason i will ALWAYS buy Savox instead of Align. Of course Savox makes them both. But i like the orange cases and really cool looking stickers. Especially when i like the brand and logo. Now if i could just find some t-shirts... I FINALLY found Gaui hats on sale somewhere and bought two of them. Still waiting for them to SHIP from Hong Kong though. The post has the package, it just has not left yet. I bet i'm not the only one looking all over for nice branded cloths. Still trying to get a shirt. But a BeastX will be just fine too, if i can find one.


Anyway, i know this is probably information overload. So feel free to ask away. Myself and many others here seem to be the helpful type. If i can't answer in time, i'm sure others here have the answers too.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:28 PM
Registered User
United States, ND, Bismarck
Joined Mar 2012
296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post

Now the things to consider with this particular heli is that it is a 6S heli. So the batteries will cost you a lot more. Minimum of around $65 a pack. Instead the $9.99 i'm paying for my 450's 3S packs.
Just real quick-like, This is not true about 6s packs for 450's I bought one on ebay for 30 bucks shipped from the u.s.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-1200mA...item1e736c6aa1

And hobbyking has nano-techs for $23

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...e_E4_etc_.html

And there is gens ace for $28 or $33 (not in stock though :c)

http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-30c-1200-6s1p-6666.html
http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-40c-1200-6s1p.html

Any of these packs are good for 6s 450's or 480's even though they are only 30 or 35c, because on 6s the heli will only draw like a max of 30 amps so the c rating does not need to be 45c+.
flint723 is offline Find More Posts by flint723
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:31 PM
Registered User
Rain4LA's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Nov 2012
331 Posts
Hey IH, I really appreciate the time you're taking. It's very helpful. It's funny because before you posted this last one, I was basically obsessing over those same two ALZRCs. I was even looking at the RC711 site where they have the EBS (Expert Build Service) built to your own specs. (Tempting!) They only offer the build service on the 450, from what I can gather. But I really like that 480. I actually like the color of the first one you posted. I'm not really sure of the differences in the 6s and 3s, so when you get a chance - please just clarify some of the basic differences (other than cost.)
You definitely got me thinking - that's for sure. I do have a soldering iron. I just soldered for the first time a couple of days ago out of necessity while replacing a tail boom on my Master CP. (I pulled the wires out of the tail motor) Another thing, it will most probably be at least a year before doing any 3D. But I don't mind investing in a "special" helicopter, that will take me far into the future. Don't worry, I don't think I'll have someone in China build my helicopter for me. (Yeah - I'm saying that now ) Either way, I'd probably ask what you would charge first.
Thanks again for your time and attention. I can't tell you - really. And by the way, I like stickers and t-shirts too. Just like I'm into that cool blue and yellow color scheme. I wanna fly that helicopter! Do you think the 480 would be any harder to fly than the 450? And would the 6s be any different than flying the 3s?
Whenever you get a chance. Thanks again.
Todd
p.s. I may even get a V450D03 to practice that size on. (I would never want to crash that mini goblin!) The plastic on the D03 can take some smashes.
Rain4LA is offline Find More Posts by Rain4LA
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:13 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
Just real quick-like, This is not true about 6s packs for 450's I bought one on ebay for 30 bucks shipped from the u.s.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-1200mA...item1e736c6aa1

And hobbyking has nano-techs for $23

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...e_E4_etc_.html

And there is gens ace for $28 or $33 (not in stock though :c)

http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-30c-1200-6s1p-6666.html
http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-40c-1200-6s1p.html

Any of these packs are good for 6s 450's or 480's even though they are only 30 or 35c, because on 6s the heli will only draw like a max of 30 amps so the c rating does not need to be 45c+.
True, i was thinking of my 4000 mAh packs. Either way, i think 1500-1800 mAh minimum for a heli with 360mm blades. I suppose it's just a matter of flight times. I always try and max mine out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain4LA View Post
Hey IH, I really appreciate the time you're taking. It's very helpful. It's funny because before you posted this last one, I was basically obsessing over those same two ALZRCs. I was even looking at the RC711 site where they have the EBS (Expert Build Service) built to your own specs. (Tempting!) They only offer the build service on the 450, from what I can gather. But I really like that 480. I actually like the color of the first one you posted. I'm not really sure of the differences in the 6s and 3s, so when you get a chance - please just clarify some of the basic differences (other than cost.)
You definitely got me thinking - that's for sure. I do have a soldering iron. I just soldered for the first time a couple of days ago out of necessity while replacing a tail boom on my Master CP. (I pulled the wires out of the tail motor) Another thing, it will most probably be at least a year before doing any 3D. But I don't mind investing in a "special" helicopter, that will take me far into the future. Don't worry, I don't think I'll have someone in China build my helicopter for me. (Yeah - I'm saying that now ) Either way, I'd probably ask what you would charge first.
Thanks again for your time and attention. I can't tell you - really. And by the way, I like stickers and t-shirts too. Just like I'm into that cool blue and yellow color scheme. I wanna fly that helicopter! Do you think the 480 would be any harder to fly than the 450? And would the 6s be any different than flying the 3s?
Whenever you get a chance. Thanks again.
Todd
p.s. I may even get a V450D03 to practice that size on. (I would never want to crash that mini goblin!) The plastic on the D03 can take some smashes.

The difference between 3S and 6S is a few things. But mainly the available power is higher with 6S so you can expect to have a more consistently high head speed in 3D with 6S. It will allow longer periods of strain on the motor and keep the head speed from bogging down because the available power is higher and more consistent. With 3S your kind of limited and this is why people end up going with more expensive higher C rated batteries. Higher mAh rated for longer flights. But with 6S and a light heli, you can probably get pretty long flights anyway. But for me the longer, the better. Thats all your choice on how you end up paying for batteries. Some packs out there will run you $150 for the same packs we are talking about for $30. Some people swear by them though. Others, not so much. It's an endless debate. Just like the "i like my brand better" argument. /shrug. It may never end, till the end. If you really wanted me to build it for you. I'm down to do it. I don't know how long it would take or anything like that. My Gaui was a easy build and i had to space it out over a week or two. Just so much going on. Holidays coming too. But honestly it would be cool just for the experience and being able to inspect the heli. So, honestly, If you can be patient. Price could be negotiable to whatever you think it's worth. I'm not looking to get rich or anything. Don't forget about shipping rates from here to you too. An assembled heli can be pricey on shipping. It has to be packaged well too if it's fully assembled. That isn't a problem either btw.


Just a side note. The guy at my LHS recently build a Alzrc. It looked really nice. CNC parts looked really nice too. It was not at all cheap looking. One other interesting fact. I can probably build a Gaui X5 airframe for about as much as this 480 heli. Yep, the Guai X5 airframe is actually only about $200 of it's over all price. Probably a little less actually. Just pointing out that good helicopters, you pay for the electronics. Mechanicals are really all quite similar.

Oh about the size of the heli. 450 vs 480 and how hard they are to fly. The truth is bigger helicopters fly better. They handle wind better and are generally more stable the bigger you go on the main rotor. But the the problem might be how scared you might be of the bigger heli. Honestly if you can hover a 120 you can hover a 450, 480, 500. Whatever. The main difference is your available space to fly it in. Also how much you end up being afraid of the bigger heli. You definitely want to fly them farther away from your face till you get more experience

Also don't let me stop you from grabbing a V450D03 if all you want is a heli to crash. Trust me when i tell you. if YOU don't crash this heli, i promise you! It will do the crashing for you. So fly it like your not scared to crash and then replace the full set of servos when you do and you should be fine. This is the only reason i just tell everyone to skip it and get a good heli. Even if all you can do is hover the thing. Stick with the micros, don't rush things too much. Get some more experience, maybe get phoenix if you don't already. Then grab yourself a nice heli. In the end you don't want to end up with more helicopters than you can keep up with. You probably don't want helicopters that you just sit on your shelf and never fly anymore either. Just something to think about before you get too invested in multiple heli. It's always nice to have more than one. Or a back up heli so you can keep flying when you crash. But if your still crashing. You don't need to buy parts for a hand full of helicopters. What you need is more experience and/or a helicopter that is reliable and doesn't fail. Often, having no experience. You may not even know how to interpret what happened during your crash. Maybe it was your fault. BUT, maybe it wasn't your fault at all. Are you sure you can tell the difference? Will you recognize a legit failure when it occurs? Sure, most are pretty obvious. You know, smoke, fire, etc. But if it does something small and weird. After, will you continue to fix the heli if the same thing keeps happening? Just don't let it go too far.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Dec 08, 2012 at 02:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:33 AM
Registered User
United States, ND, Bismarck
Joined Mar 2012
296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
True, i was thinking of my 4000 mAh packs. Either way, i think 1500-1800 mAh minimum for a heli with 360mm blades. I suppose it's just a matter of flight times. I always try and max mine out.
I suppose you're right, 1300mah might be too light for a stretch. But I don't think you'd want to go heavier than a 1500 to maintain proper cg. There doesn't seem to be any 1500 6s's available, but you could get 3s 1500-1600 packs you could use in series for ~$15 a piece weighing ~140g each. Now you have me thinking of going stretch too....
flint723 is offline Find More Posts by flint723
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 08, 2012, 02:00 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
I suppose you're right, 1300mah might be too light for a stretch. But I don't think you'd want to go heavier than a 1500 to maintain proper cg. There doesn't seem to be any 1500 6s's available, but you could get 3s 1500-1600 packs you could use in series for ~$15 a piece weighing ~140g each. Now you have me thinking of going stretch too....
Actually i was considering the FRP added to the tail boom as one of the reasons for a bigger pack too. But you may be right. They are 6S after all. Too big might throw the CG and limit the gyro.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 08, 2012, 09:58 AM
Registered User
Rain4LA's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Nov 2012
331 Posts
Thanks IH, you've given me a lot to think about. A LOT. I do need to slow down a bit and figure things out. I really do like that 480. I can foresee being intimidated though with not only the size, but the coust and everything after all is said and done.

I'm just gonna chill things out a little while and see what makes the most sense. I can't tell you how helpful you've been.

Thank you.

Todd
Rain4LA is offline Find More Posts by Rain4LA
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 08, 2012, 12:17 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain4LA View Post
Thanks IH, you've given me a lot to think about. A LOT. I do need to slow down a bit and figure things out. I really do like that 480. I can foresee being intimidated though with not only the size, but the coust and everything after all is said and done.

I'm just gonna chill things out a little while and see what makes the most sense. I can't tell you how helpful you've been.

Thank you.

Todd

My pleasure, really. I'm glad your thinking about the future aspects. Yes, a bigger helicopter is scary for a reason. Even a 450 could injure someone very badly or even kill them possibly. Of course death is unlikely, but you never know the situation. I always tell everyone when they comment on the sheer size of my X5. "The moment you don't respect it..... OF WITH THEIR HEADS", just like the queen. LOL. The truth is that evntually you will find MORE comfort in bigger helicopters because they are not so tipsy and keep them self more stable because of the extra weight and the extra weight on the rotor. Think of it like this. If you took a bicycle wheel and spun it horizontally like a top. Once it's up to speed the gyroscopic forces will keep the wheel horizontal. This is also why people can spin plates on the tip of their finger and i think everyone had a gyroscope when they were a kid. The kind you spun with a string and it stood straight up on one leg and spun there.




Centrifugal force! Its a sizable one. If you then went to tip the bicycle wheel or gyroscope to the normal vertical position the wheel will resist forcefully because of the centrifugal force. The wheel will likely wobble around and resist moving to the horizontal plane until forced or the spinning slows down enough to not be able to fight back any more. A helicopter rotor disc works much the same way, but we have collective pitch controls also to provide lots of force on the rotor and also negate some of the centrifugal force too. So the bigger the blades are on a heli the more centrifugal forces are at work. The harder that heli fights all by it's self to stay level without the aid of a gyro controller. The introduction of gyro controllers changed everything in this hobby. Before then it was the bell-hiller mixer that relieved the pilot and allowed finer control over the rotor system. Of course there is also the bell control system and the hiller control system separately that were combined with the bell-hiller mixer to produce the current day hybridized "flybar" control system. Just something else to consider.


The simulator will allow you to crash 100 times in a day for free. It will give you the basic comfort of muscle memory. Your actual comfort level with a big heli will have to be done with the real thing either way. But it helps to already have full confidence in your control ability too. I would not be as good a pilot i am now if it was not for phoenix. I know that for sure. But you also cannot expect the real thing to fly like the sim. ESPECIALLY WITH A WALKERA! Especially when you get into 3D training. The gyros on a walkera, i found out pretty quickly, will not stabilize in 3D as well as more expensive birds. Reverse flight was tricky and so was doing tick tocks compared to the sim or my BeastX gyro on the X5. Though there is more stability because of size on the X5 too. I'm convinced that good gyros are required when you do get into wanting to do full out 3D. It's nice to have them from the start so you don't buy a $100 gyro then decide "gee i need a beastX" and have to buy a $200 gyro. Thats $300. You could have saved $100 and just bought the good gyro. Thats my take and my exact experience with Walkera. They will not carry you faithfully into your 3D days, no matter what they claim their heli is capable of. Your capabilities will come more into question as you progress because the gyro won't be picking up the slack. Though i have to say. This is a pretty good way to learn how to do some of the flight compensation on your own. It's not a bad thing either, it gives you valuable experience. But if i had it to do over again. I wouldn't want to go though the heli failures, servos burning out, ESC CATCHING FIRE!!! and all that nonsense. I'm sure i would have learned just fine and crashed less on a more expensive bird. I would have cried more when i crashed it. But i would have enjoyed my experience more, overall, i think.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted Walkera 400d or Walkera Brushless Cb100 or Heli max 6 channel heli blueindian Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Jul 07, 2010 08:03 PM
Discussion Walkera 4#6 or Walkera 4#6s? red_storm Micro Helis 8 Jul 07, 2010 12:17 AM
Discussion Upgrade my Walkera 4#3B or just get a Walkera 4#6? tumble2k Micro Helis 7 Mar 26, 2010 07:30 PM
For Sale Walkera 68 & Walkera 36 Parts bretware Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Aug 29, 2009 05:23 PM
Wanted Walkera Lama2 or Walkera 5G6-1 night_life Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 2 Aug 27, 2009 04:20 AM