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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
All gyro's are sensitive to vibration, that's why you put a foam pad under the heli. The quiter you can make the heli. the better the gyro will work. A gyro senses motion, and it sees vibration as motion, sometimes it will send a spurious signal to a servo causing an unexpected motion of the heli. The Robird vibration analyzer will tell you if the vibration is in the head or the tail, it shows you where to look.
I understand that. As an audio engineer i understand isolation very well. We have to vibration isolate studio monitors so that the sound is at it's natural resonance. It is actually done the exact same way we isolate our gyros. It just seems like if the heli setup and repairs were done right, you wouldn't need it. But maybe you don't always see the vibrations to know they even exist. Perhaps this feature can help you track those hidden "invisible" or high frequency vibes. But even still, with proper setup and repair it seems like it would not be needed. I'm not saying it's a useless feature. I'm just saying, chances are it won't get used that often. Like Siri on the iphone But i still kind of want to check it out and see what it's all about and how it works. I'm sure, being a 3D enthusiast that i am, i don't notice or care about a lot of the vibes going on as long as it does not affect the gyro or flight. Because i know it won't be long till the next crash. I think scale flight guys and just basic hoveround type fliers spend more time staring at a stationary hover and can pick out these kinds of things because they have the time to focus on it. Unlike someone like me that takes off and starts flipping, rolling and and speeding off in FFF immediately after take off. I suppose it just kind of plays back motion of the servos and that way maybe you will physically see that the servo on the tail was wobbling around like crazy or something like that?
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I understand that. As an audio engineer i understand isolation very well. We have to vibration isolate studio monitors so that the sound is at it's natural resonance. It is actually done the exact same way we isolate our gyros. It just seems like if the heli setup and repairs were done right, you wouldn't need it. But maybe you don't always see the vibrations to know they even exist. Perhaps this feature can help you track those hidden "invisible" or high frequency vibes. But even still, with proper setup and repair it seems like it would not be needed. I'm not saying it's a useless feature. I'm just saying, chances are it won't get used that often. Like Siri on the iphone But i still kind of want to check it out and see what it's all about and how it works. I'm sure, being a 3D enthusiast that i am, i don't notice or care about a lot of the vibes going on as long as it does not affect the gyro or flight. Because i know it won't be long till the next crash. I think scale flight guys and just basic hoveround type fliers spend more time staring at a stationary hover and can pick out these kinds of things because they have the time to focus on it. Unlike someone like me that takes off and starts flipping, rolling and and speeding off in FFF immediately after take off. I suppose it just kind of plays back motion of the servos and that way maybe you will physically see that the servo on the tail was wobbling around like crazy or something like that?
It plots vibration amplitude as a function of rotor speed.
One plot for the main rotor, and a second plot for the tailrotor.
You can analyze it after a flight, or in real time, on the ground as you run up the rotor.
Here's the link for the demo on UTube.
Robird G31 Video Tutorial - PART 18/18 (Vibration Analysis Demo) (0 min 54 sec)


I think the Robird is worth the price just for this feature.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:22 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
It plots vibration amplitude as a function of rotor speed.
One plot for the main rotor, and a second plot for the tailrotor.
You can analyze it after a flight, or in real time, on the ground as you run up the rotor.
Here's the link for the demo on UTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ukj1fjmEQ

I think the Robird is worth the price just for this feature.
OOOOOh! I didn't realize it was like this. I didn't realize it had a on screen display. That is a spectrum analyzer type thing going on there. I suppose it would help to know what all the numbers and bars actually represent. But that is pretty cool.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 06:45 AM
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This is the reason why many modellers here pay professionals to install their FBL system for them. Things have just got so complicated now as it you need to have a degree in engineering. It often costs more than US$300 to have a Vbar installed and set up by a professional. If you don't set up correctly, the heli may not even fly.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 09:26 AM
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Besides the added fuselage, daytime strobes and lugging around an iPhone, there were some Radio Shack heat sinks attached to the stock 35 (40?) amp ESC to keep it from overheating. Otherwise stock V450.
V450D01 Aerial and 3rd person Cam View (5 min 54 sec)
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
This is the reason why many modellers here pay professionals to install their FBL system for them. Things have just got so complicated now as it you need to have a degree in engineering. It often costs more than US$300 to have a Vbar installed and set up by a professional. If you don't set up correctly, the heli may not even fly.
Yeah, the BeastX is pretty complex considering how "easy" everyone calls it to setup. I know a lot and am well researched too. But i still had to ask questions and get some help. (Thanks newbheliuser AKA Rex)



Anyway,

NOTICE:

The swashplates being sold by wowhobbies.com, helipal.com and a few other sites i have ordered from recently have the old version v450D01 swashplates listed for sale and pictured in the listing. THEY ARE NOT THE OLD VERSION! I only ordered one this time from wowhobbies instead of 10. A "New" swash plate is what arrived today. This is worthless to me because it has a very much limited movement compared to the old version. It's great if you want to dumb down your cyclic and flip/roll rotation speed though


SO ANGRY... So if anyone wants to buy this "New" Swash off me i'll ship it USPS first class so i'll take $20 for it shipped.


I will now be buying an Align DFC rotor head, swash and some servo horn linkages for my Savox servos. I'll have to see about how the Geometry lines up and everything. But i will not be replacing the rotorhead with a "New" rotor head. ESPECIALLY because they made the blade grips out of plastic and want $49.90 for the damn thing. Which is the same cost as the Align DFC head, like they have any justifiable reason to charge as much as Align for using cheaper materials and less research. Not to mention if you find a pictured and labeled "New" swashplate they are listed for $29. Meanwhile everywhere i have purchased one that was pictured as a "old style" swash i only paid $16-19 for the swash and they sent me the "new" version instead. So if anything Walkera's markup is brazen hubris at best, in my opinion. The Align DFC swash is only $27. So, in my opinion, they have a lot of nerve and are going to push them self right out of the hobby market. Maybe "push" isn't the right word. More like "laugh".
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Okay, so out of curiosity i installed the "new" swash and went though all the setup a few times. What i have found is that the swash reacts about the same with the "new" swash using linear expo and 100% DR. Where with my old swash i had to use 40-80% expo/100% DR. The rotation rate was still MUCH, MUCH, MUCH slower than with the older version swash. So i turned the swash mixing up to 90 - 90 - 90 and ran though the RX cyclic setup limits again. Even with 90 - 90 - 90 the rotation rate was still slower than with the old style swash, but almost acceptable. I have not tried 100 - 100 - 100 yet, BUT HONESTLY?!?!? Isn't this getting a little nuts? I have to drive it to the MAX limits to ride the same threshold as the old swash? I feel like not having any head room is wrong. The only alternative i have is to MAYBE try installing longer ball links on the blade grips. But something tells me finding them will be an issue. So if anyone strips their old style V450 swash. Keep this in mind because you'll have to reset the heli limits on the cyclic.

I might give one of the clone FBL heads a go or something like that. But the DFC is probably the nicer of them all. It sure would be nice if i could extract these two broken links so i can use this brand new swash i didn't even get to use.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:15 PM
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hey integrity, im just thinking of building another helicopter. Not too sure if the new RX2702v-D (devo version) is good or shall i just get the 3gx and then get a walkera rx with it....? what's ur opinion? is it 6 axis on the new 2702v?
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
hey integrity, im just thinking of building another helicopter. Not too sure if the new RX2702v-D (devo version) is good or shall i just get the 3gx and then get a walkera rx with it....? what's ur opinion? is it 6 axis on the new 2702v?
The 2702V-D is from the V18G01, walkera's 500 sized gasser that was a total flop, far as i can tell. It is a 3 axis gyro and probably will come with the long antenna wires to mount away from the frame, since it was for a gasser. I think it's also out fitted on the V500D01 too. Anyway, for the money i wouldn't get one. They gyros are only decent. Not even really good, just "okay". Since the only other gyro i have actually used and have had no problem with is the microbeast i have to say it's a great unit but expensive. The 3GX is a good gyro too but i don't know much about it myself. Right now the Robird G31, AKA, 3GY Black Widow is making waves and looking like a decent gyro for cheap. So is the Tarot ZYX. I would get a RX and a separate gyro of your choosing. If your doing 3D now, or not. Better gyros still fly nicer. When you get into 3D or piros you will want the better gyros that have more precise cyclic control and better programming options to stabilize the heli like "Pirouette Compensation"

The 2702V-D will probably work for you and is easy to install. But with a little learning i'm sure you could setup any one of these gyros with no problem. The Microbeast is very easy and can be programmed anywhere without a PC. Not all of them can do that. The Tarot ZYX can be programmed via bluetooth with your cellular phone, using an app and bluetooth plug adapter for the gyro. That is pretty cool, IMO. I think any one of these will work great for you if your not really stick slapping 3D like a mad man. I've heard the 3GX is kind of complex to setup. But the microbeast seemed pretty complex to me at first too. I hope this info helps.


If it means anything, i would argue that Align's sales would be improved if they sold their bigger helicopters with BeastX gyros. I can only speculate, but i feel like they are going to be the superior between the two. Maybe not in over all performance, but i think you need to PC program the 3GX? I am not sure about that. But it's something to check out.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 09:23 PM
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I'm using the 3gx on my 250 DFC. For some reason and it seems fine. If you ask me i still quite like the 2801 rx2702v as it is so easy to setup. I'm not doing hardcore 3d at the moment and I can't really tell the difference in both to b honest.....thats y im thinking if i'm going to build a 550E DFC, shall i get the super combo or just the combo set.....
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
I'm using the 3gx on my 250 DFC. For some reason and it seems fine. If you ask me i still quite like the 2801 rx2702v as it is so easy to setup. I'm not doing hardcore 3d at the moment and I can't really tell the difference in both to b honest.....thats y im thinking if i'm going to build a 550E DFC, shall i get the super combo or just the combo set.....
I don't have anything bad to say about the 3GX since i don't use one, or the Align 550E for that matter. BUT. I would not recommend you get a DFC rotor head on anything above the 450 size yet. There is a wear and tear flaw in the DFC rotor head in the bigger heli. If your not doing 3D it might be okay but it could present it's self as an issue down the road. Here is a video demoing the issue.

Align DFC Rotor Head Design flaw demo. (3 min 43 sec)




Since your asking ME, and your thinking about the Trex 550, i have to strongly recommend you consider the Gaui X5. I think it's actually cheaper than the 550E, costing about $899. It's about the same cost. The super combo comes with everything you need except a RX and battery. Of course i can help you with the setup of the X5 as well. The build is actually very easy, probably much easier than the Align build. It also can be fixed easy since there are not a lot of little parts or servo brackets or anything like that.

But, if you have your heart set on an align, that is a nice heli too. The 550E is just a little bit bigger than the X5 but it's heavier. I know a lot of guys sold their 550 to get an X5 and preferred it. This was one of the reasons i decided to get the X5 instead of the 600E i was looking at.

Regardless, if you get an Align above the 450 size. I would go ahead and get the FBL head, not the DFC and get the full 3GX combo since you know how to set it up already. It really is a much better gyro than the 2702V. You might not be able to tell now, but if you get into wanting to do multiple pirouettes in a row or tick tocking you will start to notice the difference between the 3GX and the 2702V. The 2702V will fly and do 3D, there is no doubt. But the 3GX will stabilize the heli much better so you can concentrate more on the ticks. That being said. Learning on a "poor" gyro is probably good flight training in my opinion. It will teach you muscle memory so if your gyro fails or you ever need the skill you can probably stabilize the heli better yourself.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I don't have anything bad to say about the 3GX since i don't use one, or the Align 550E for that matter. BUT. I would not recommend you get a DFC rotor head on anything above the 450 size yet. There is a wear and tear flaw in the DFC rotor head in the bigger heli. If your not doing 3D it might be okay but it could present it's self as an issue down the road. Here is a video demoing the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XAPvYUXq4



Since your asking ME, and your thinking about the Trex 550, i have to strongly recommend you consider the Gaui X5. I think it's actually cheaper than the 550E, costing about $899. It's about the same cost. The super combo comes with everything you need except a RX and battery. Of course i can help you with the setup of the X5 as well. The build is actually very easy, probably much easier than the Align build. It also can be fixed easy since there are not a lot of little parts or servo brackets or anything like that.

But, if you have your heart set on an align, that is a nice heli too. The 550E is just a little bit bigger than the X5 but it's heavier. I know a lot of guys sold their 550 to get an X5 and preferred it. This was one of the reasons i decided to get the X5 instead of the 600E i was looking at.

Regardless, if you get an Align above the 450 size. I would go ahead and get the FBL head, not the DFC and get the full 3GX combo since you know how to set it up already. It really is a much better gyro than the 2702V. You might not be able to tell now, but if you get into wanting to do multiple pirouettes in a row or tick tocking you will start to notice the difference between the 3GX and the 2702V. The 2702V will fly and do 3D, there is no doubt. But the 3GX will stabilize the heli much better so you can concentrate more on the ticks. That being said. Learning on a "poor" gyro is probably good flight training in my opinion. It will teach you muscle memory so if your gyro fails or you ever need the skill you can probably stabilize the heli better yourself.
thank you very much for sharing your thoughts integrity. i would love to get a gaui x5 to be honest. i'm not a super big fan for any brand. the reason why i keep getting the align is because the supplier that i m dealing with is giving very good price on all align products. 29% off the listed price on the align website, which i couldnt find any better deal on any website.....
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 11:50 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
The 2702V-D is from the V18G01, walkera's 500 sized gasser that was a total flop, far as i can tell. It is a 3 axis gyro and probably will come with the long antenna wires to mount away from the frame, since it was for a gasser. I think it's also out fitted on the V500D01 too. Anyway, for the money i wouldn't get one. They gyros are only decent. Not even really good, just "okay". Since the only other gyro i have actually used and have had no problem with is the microbeast i have to say it's a great unit but expensive. The 3GX is a good gyro too but i don't know much about it myself. Right now the Robird G31, AKA, 3GY Black Widow is making waves and looking like a decent gyro for cheap. So is the Tarot ZYX. I would get a RX and a separate gyro of your choosing. If your doing 3D now, or not. Better gyros still fly nicer. When you get into 3D or piros you will want the better gyros that have more precise cyclic control and better programming options to stabilize the heli like "Pirouette Compensation"

The 2702V-D will probably work for you and is easy to install. But with a little learning i'm sure you could setup any one of these gyros with no problem. The Microbeast is very easy and can be programmed anywhere without a PC. Not all of them can do that. The Tarot ZYX can be programmed via bluetooth with your cellular phone, using an app and bluetooth plug adapter for the gyro. That is pretty cool, IMO. I think any one of these will work great for you if your not really stick slapping 3D like a mad man. I've heard the 3GX is kind of complex to setup. But the microbeast seemed pretty complex to me at first too. I hope this info helps.


If it means anything, i would argue that Align's sales would be improved if they sold their bigger helicopters with BeastX gyros. I can only speculate, but i feel like they are going to be the superior between the two. Maybe not in over all performance, but i think you need to PC program the 3GX? I am not sure about that. But it's something to check out.
The 2702V-D was also to match the Devo line - so that they could sell the Old V450D01 with a D8/10 and not have you complain about having to buy WK when it was already obsolete. I don't know which it was actually developed for but since it's only the -D which was added I guess internally the V and V-D versions are identical, just D version has longer antennas.

The 3GX can be programmed via PC or directly. It's not as easy to program directly as there are way more options than on the RX2702V-D but actually, once you get your head around what you're doing (and if you can see which LEDs are flashing at you during the setup) then it's not that bad either. After the 5th run through you should be getting the hang of it. I just got my Align Trex 250 Pro DFC to fly and compared to the V200D03 it's ultra reactive - not sure how a V450D01 with 3GX would be but I think the sticks would feel waaaaaay more connected to the heli. If I suddenly get a week of free time I guess I could try it!!
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 11:59 PM
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The 2702V-D was also to match the Devo line - so that they could sell the Old V450D01 with a D8/10 and not have you complain about having to buy WK when it was already obsolete. I don't know which it was actually developed for but since it's only the -D which was added I guess internally the V and V-D versions are identical, just D version has longer antennas.

The 3GX can be programmed via PC or directly. It's not as easy to program directly as there are way more options than on the RX2702V-D but actually, once you get your head around what you're doing (and if you can see which LEDs are flashing at you during the setup) then it's not that bad either. After the 5th run through you should be getting the hang of it. I just got my Align Trex 250 Pro DFC to fly and compared to the V200D03 it's ultra reactive - not sure how a V450D01 with 3GX would be but I think the sticks would feel waaaaaay more connected to the heli. If I suddenly get a week of free time I guess I could try it!!
haha nice one! mind if i ask what settings have you got on your 3gx? did u tune it up as per recommendation on the manual? i find that my v120d02s has got more 'power' (pitch) and more agile that than the 250 dfc.....i've put the swash reaction (step 5 in flight mode settings) to 60%.....n it was ok....
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:12 AM
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haha nice one! mind if i ask what settings have you got on your 3gx? did u tune it up as per recommendation on the manual? i find that my v120d02s has got more 'power' (pitch) and more agile that than the 250 dfc.....i've put the swash reaction (step 5 in flight mode settings) to 60%.....n it was ok....
I can't tell you until this evening/weekend but I think I just followed the 3GX software on the PC. I can check what the actually settings are later. I found that the 250 DFC was very excited. I flew(hovered) 2 packs on it and I have a bit of a tail wag so definitely it needs more tuning but I found by default the max-min pitch was something like +/-35deg until I dialed it down. Mine is drifting rearwards slightly but otherwise it feels like it's more crazy than the V200D03 and she's pretty crazy (until she's vertical)!
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