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Old Nov 06, 2012, 07:33 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I think its the tx. Cause now you have swapped everything but the tx. Maybe a new rx for your new tx and put it in the v450.

Yeah, i plan on getting a AR7200BX with BeastX for the Spektrum DX8 and using that in the 450. But it's not the 2801 TX. OR if it is, it's only because of the CF or another factor causing it. I think one of my other Walkera helicopters would experience the same thing using the same TX? At least these last few times it didn't cause a crash. The drop out was actually less than a second. But it was obvious to me. As a spectator you wouldn't have even noticed it. I'm going to just keep flying the 2702V and hope for the best till i can afford a uBeast or 7200BX.


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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Try as a trial & put a separate battery in there to power your RX & servos. You can do it with the 2702, it has a separate battery port, mine doesn't.

Forget the capacitor, it can't store enough energy to last out a one second glitch!

Those long antennas, are just to place them in a different area other than right next to the RX. They do not increase the reception range just because they are longer. They are just extensions that have been shielded up to the point of their emergence from the shielding. It was to get them out of the Carbon Fiber Area.

You know the glitch you were talking about, well I have had that kind of "slow-down" in head speed before. I realized it was all because of my throttle curve, I don't have a governor like you do, but I know I made a mistake with my throttle curve. In normal mode when I dropped the collective/throttle the head speed dropped so low I thought the heli was going to just drop out of the sky. But after tweaking that curve, I eliminated that problem.

Good news from my long distance local hobby shop: after I told them I shipped the TX on Monday but for the cheap price of sending it, there are zero for tracking info, plus I sent them 2 pictures of the circuit board I picked out as the culprit. They are sending me a new Devo 10 with a model plugged into it for my heli, plus a new set of landing skids & a canopy. I waiting for the tracking number now..........
I disagree about the antennas. OF COURSE they increase the available reception range. Assuming that the major issue was being near and specifically mounted right on top of a piece of CF. Because if the CF is blocking or refracting the signal, the effective range will be reduced, right? Because even encased in CF, at close range the signal will bleed though. But get farther away and the signal strength on the receiving side will be reduced exponentially with distance because of the CF shadow. I feel like the reception ability of my old 2702V units that locked me out all the time was compromised either by damage or QC issues. Perhaps they would still work perfectly if the frame was made out of plastic and dielectric FRP instead. But I'm just not buying a V450D03 to install it in to find out

SWEET DEAL!! with the TX man! I'm so happy for you! I didn't expect that! Though the one thing i have heard Walkera honors well is their TX warranties. Because that isn't the side that gets crashed
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 08:46 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I didnt think about that .... Damn

Also you need to,take a pic of your x5 and send to pheonix, then when they add it i can fly your heli.
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I didnt think about that .... Damn

Also you need to,take a pic of your x5 and send to pheonix, then when they add it i can fly your heli.
Where do they do have that info?
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 03:33 AM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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Look at it this way, the antenna is only 31 Cm. long you have two of them on your RX they recommend a 90 degree separation of them. They make a extension in length (but is coaxial shielded) so the user can mount one antenna in the vertical plane in a area that is not surrounded by carbon fiber, & the other antenna mounted in the horizontal plane. Supposedly this was done to prevent carbon fiber shadowing.

Carbon fiber is not lead, carbon fiber is conductor of electricity a poor one but it will still conduct. Lead will conduct also, but lead will shield RF signals if it is electrically grounded, I don't think a free standing piece of carbon fiber will shield RF unless you actually had it wired up with a positive & a negative wire for it to make a circuit.

Take the tail boom for instance, on my heli it is made out of aluminum not CF & it is held at both ends by plastic holders no way for that be connected electrically.

So the tail boom may impede some of the RF just because it is made of metal & I don't think 2.4 GHz. passes through metal too well but it will pass because the boom isn't electrically grounded which would capture the RF & send it to ground.

Short wave RF 2.4 GHz. will only transmit in a straight line & will not bounce off of the earth or the ionosphere like a long wave frequency will, plus it takes more power in wattage to transmit it compared to a lower frequency.

Our transmitters are only putting out <100mw that is less than a 1/10th of a watt which isn't much. My 78 Mhz. RC car TX put out the same wattage & it's effective range was around 800 feet & that was with a lower frequency than we run. I wouldn't trust my heli being more than 3-4 hundred feet from me, these TX's don't have the range.

So, I am happy also that Walkera is going to replace my transmitter, I need to check my mail & see if they sent a confirmation that it shipped. They are really quick when they have shipped to me before.



Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post

I disagree about the antennas. OF COURSE they increase the available reception range. Assuming that the major issue was being near and specifically mounted right on top of a piece of CF. Because if the CF is blocking or refracting the signal, the effective range will be reduced, right? Because even encased in CF, at close range the signal will bleed though. But get farther away and the signal strength on the receiving side will be reduced exponentially with distance because of the CF shadow. I feel like the reception ability of my old 2702V units that locked me out all the time was compromised either by damage or QC issues. Perhaps they would still work perfectly if the frame was made out of plastic and dielectric FRP instead. But I'm just not buying a V450D03 to install it in to find out

SWEET DEAL!! with the TX man! I'm so happy for you! I didn't expect that! Though the one thing i have heard Walkera honors well is their TX warranties. Because that isn't the side that gets crashed
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 05:30 AM
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Hey guys, someone just offered to sell his align 600efl with the rutabaga cyg750 gyro n 4 packs for 700$$. What do u guys think? Worth it? I m thinking of putting a devo10 rx on it as I'm using walkera tx.....
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 08:33 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
...

Our transmitters are only putting out <100mw that is less than a 1/10th of a watt which isn't much. My 78 Mhz. RC car TX put out the same wattage & it's effective range was around 800 feet & that was with a lower frequency than we run. I wouldn't trust my heli being more than 3-4 hundred feet from me, these TX's don't have the range.

...
I heard (20+ years ago) that stuff which is up in the air receives RF much better than something similar on the ground, so I think our 2.4GHz TX is probably good for upto 1km and maybe a little further in some situations but of course... there's not really much chance to test it without a fairly major risk to lose your test object... unless you have GPS return home.

Anyway, if you can fly your V450D01 at 500m+ then you should be doing something else with your eyesight!
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 11:06 AM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I love my trex 600 efl pro. Worth every penny. I dont know anything about the gryo, but sounds like a good deal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
Hey guys, someone just offered to sell his align 600efl with the rutabaga cyg750 gyro n 4 packs for 700$$. What do u guys think? Worth it? I m thinking of putting a devo10 rx on it as I'm using walkera tx.....
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 03:52 AM
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United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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Very funny with the eye sight distance, I was saying feet not meters.

Although we use to fly planes at a mile up & 2 miles away with 72 MHz. but those TX's put out 1 watt of RF power.


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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I heard (20+ years ago) that stuff which is up in the air receives RF much better than something similar on the ground, so I think our 2.4GHz TX is probably good for upto 1km and maybe a little further in some situations but of course... there's not really much chance to test it without a fairly major risk to lose your test object... unless you have GPS return home.

Anyway, if you can fly your V450D01 at 500m+ then you should be doing something else with your eyesight!
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Very funny with the eye sight distance, I was saying feet not meters.

Although we use to fly planes at a mile up & 2 miles away with 72 MHz. but those TX's put out 1 watt of RF power.
Ha! Sorry, been out of the UK for too long to care about imperial measurements!!
Yeah, 72MHz would carry much better than 2.4GHz for sure. I wish I knew more about how to work it out theoretically and then divide by say 2 to have a safety factor.

I did notice that when I flew around the Angel of the North (big steel sculpture) over summer that I completely lost contact with my quad as it flew through the shadow. I expected it so I had it moving at a pace before it entered to maximise the chance of it getting out the other side before meeting terafirma.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Just Google "frequency + distance calculator" it will ask you to enter the freq. & the power of the TX I am sure you will find something out there in this great world of the Internet.

The Angel of the North acted like a grounded metal grid which took in your TX RF & feed it to ground. Never fly near something like that.........


I once worked in a large main-frame computer facility room that was shielded with very fine copper mesh surrounding the room on all of its sides including the floor & grounded. The purpose was to prevent a satellite from receiving the electrical impulses which were data that was highly proprietary & for the Mfg. of U.S. submarines & that was only for the propeller of the sub. Man that is getting freaky!

Of course you know that what I just stated does not infringe upon any secrets, just observation of said facility, & what they Mfg.

I was surprised I was allowed in there with out a clearance, but I was there to repair the computer which we made.

I had since gotten clearances for tons of stuff, a job I would never do again, because it is such a pain in the Ass with all of the "the need to know" & who you can talk to or around.

But enough about that crap, go check out the Google thing & have a blast!


Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Ha! Sorry, been out of the UK for too long to care about imperial measurements!!
Yeah, 72MHz would carry much better than 2.4GHz for sure. I wish I knew more about how to work it out theoretically and then divide by say 2 to have a safety factor.

I did notice that when I flew around the Angel of the North (big steel sculpture) over summer that I completely lost contact with my quad as it flew through the shadow. I expected it so I had it moving at a pace before it entered to maximise the chance of it getting out the other side before meeting terafirma.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 11:40 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,652 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Look at it this way, the antenna is only 31 Cm. long you have two of them on your RX they recommend a 90 degree separation of them. They make a extension in length (but is coaxial shielded) so the user can mount one antenna in the vertical plane in a area that is not surrounded by carbon fiber, & the other antenna mounted in the horizontal plane. Supposedly this was done to prevent carbon fiber shadowing.

Carbon fiber is not lead, carbon fiber is conductor of electricity a poor one but it will still conduct. Lead will conduct also, but lead will shield RF signals if it is electrically grounded, I don't think a free standing piece of carbon fiber will shield RF unless you actually had it wired up with a positive & a negative wire for it to make a circuit.

Take the tail boom for instance, on my heli it is made out of aluminum not CF & it is held at both ends by plastic holders no way for that be connected electrically.

So the tail boom may impede some of the RF just because it is made of metal & I don't think 2.4 GHz. passes through metal too well but it will pass because the boom isn't electrically grounded which would capture the RF & send it to ground.

Short wave RF 2.4 GHz. will only transmit in a straight line & will not bounce off of the earth or the ionosphere like a long wave frequency will, plus it takes more power in wattage to transmit it compared to a lower frequency.

Our transmitters are only putting out <100mw that is less than a 1/10th of a watt which isn't much. My 78 Mhz. RC car TX put out the same wattage & it's effective range was around 800 feet & that was with a lower frequency than we run. I wouldn't trust my heli being more than 3-4 hundred feet from me, these TX's don't have the range.

So, I am happy also that Walkera is going to replace my transmitter, I need to check my mail & see if they sent a confirmation that it shipped. They are really quick when they have shipped to me before.

Yes, i know the theory behind it. But your discounting the variables. One of which is Walkera RX units obviously have a problem with CF shadowing. Or at least the 2702V did. The logical assumption would be that since they develop all their own electronics. ALL of their RX could be prone to this problem. Farther adding to the assumption is the constant changes they are making to the new Devo RX with the antennas. First two short antenna, then one long, now two long. Come on, they don't know what the hell they are doing and it's evident.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I heard (20+ years ago) that stuff which is up in the air receives RF much better than something similar on the ground, so I think our 2.4GHz TX is probably good for upto 1km and maybe a little further in some situations but of course... there's not really much chance to test it without a fairly major risk to lose your test object... unless you have GPS return home.

Anyway, if you can fly your V450D01 at 500m+ then you should be doing something else with your eyesight!
I had my X5 flying OVER the movie theater last week. I'm pretty sure thats about 500m. It's easily 2 football fields away. I'm scared to fly my 450 mid field. But the X5 is so big i get scared having it close sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Ha! Sorry, been out of the UK for too long to care about imperial measurements!!
Yeah, 72MHz would carry much better than 2.4GHz for sure. I wish I knew more about how to work it out theoretically and then divide by say 2 to have a safety factor.

I did notice that when I flew around the Angel of the North (big steel sculpture) over summer that I completely lost contact with my quad as it flew through the shadow. I expected it so I had it moving at a pace before it entered to maximise the chance of it getting out the other side before meeting terafirma.
AH latin. Who said it's a dead language! It's been a while since i've seen that term used too. Thank you!



Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Just Google "frequency + distance calculator" it will ask you to enter the freq. & the power of the TX I am sure you will find something out there in this great world of the Internet.

The Angel of the North acted like a grounded metal grid which took in your TX RF & feed it to ground. Never fly near something like that.........


I once worked in a large main-frame computer facility room that was shielded with very fine copper mesh surrounding the room on all of its sides including the floor & grounded. The purpose was to prevent a satellite from receiving the electrical impulses which were data that was highly proprietary & for the Mfg. of U.S. submarines & that was only for the propeller of the sub. Man that is getting freaky!

Of course you know that what I just stated does not infringe upon any secrets, just observation of said facility, & what they Mfg.

I was surprised I was allowed in there with out a clearance, but I was there to repair the computer which we made.

I had since gotten clearances for tons of stuff, a job I would never do again, because it is such a pain in the Ass with all of the "the need to know" & who you can talk to or around.

But enough about that crap, go check out the Google thing & have a blast!
Okay, i've wanted to bring this up a few times, now seems as good a time as any. Because i am more passionate about health and government then anything to do with helicopters, believe it or not. This is information i find important and everyone should at least consider it as a threat. It's been my assumption for nearly 10 years that radio frequency is one of the leading causes of cancer and illness in America. I feel they picked 2.4ghz on purpose too. But regardless of what anyone thinks. Call them "conspiracy theories". I call them actual "Conspiracies" that do exist. But take a read over this article and the references given at the bottom of the article. Believe me this is crap you won't find on the evening news until enough people find out and they can't keep a lid on it anymore. I guess one of the reasons i don't trust Walkera is because i spend MORE time studying governments and human behavior then i do flying helicopters. Walkera exhibits the same type of behavior as news media and government. Dishonesty.

The invisible threat that pulls apart DNA, causing genetic disorders and cancer!
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 12:03 PM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
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Try this link:

http://wirelesscomputing.net/house2/RangePrediction.htm

I found that roughly our TX's are good for about 200 meters.



Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Just Google "frequency + distance calculator" it will ask you to enter the freq. & the power of the TX I am sure you will find something out there in this great world of the Internet.

The Angel of the North acted like a grounded metal grid which took in your TX RF & feed it to ground. Never fly near something like that.........


I once worked in a large main-frame computer facility room that was shielded with very fine copper mesh surrounding the room on all of its sides including the floor & grounded. The purpose was to prevent a satellite from receiving the electrical impulses which were data that was highly proprietary & for the Mfg. of U.S. submarines & that was only for the propeller of the sub. Man that is getting freaky!

Of course you know that what I just stated does not infringe upon any secrets, just observation of said facility, & what they Mfg.

I was surprised I was allowed in there with out a clearance, but I was there to repair the computer which we made.

I had since gotten clearances for tons of stuff, a job I would never do again, because it is such a pain in the Ass with all of the "the need to know" & who you can talk to or around.

But enough about that crap, go check out the Google thing & have a blast!
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 12:23 PM
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GAH, Metric conversions. Why can't we all just get along!?

Okay, that makes sense. The typical unobstructed distance of most 2.4ghz things i have ever bought. Including cameras, phones, other crap. Actually listed right on the package "100m range" or "100m unobstructed range". Which is what? 300 feet right? So i'm positive, absolutely that it's MORE than 300 feet or one full size football field to the parking lot of the movie theater. Easily 500 feet, to the parking lot closest side of it to me anyway. Another 200 or so to the building. After doing a high speed loop i ended up basically over the cars. Now, depth perception is a bitch. But i'm pretty good with it and i've always passed those little ball tests with the circles on the ASVAB and things with great scores. So i could have been closer then it seemed. Maybe i was just being paranoid. But i'm sure the heli was over cars at that point. It looked like my v120 flying around up there.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 12:24 PM
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I was giving the best case scenario on distance. But I do agree with you on Walkera is not sure of how to fix the problem.

Here you are in your video stating the temp. was 80 & with the wind blowing your fingers were getting cold. I think it was because you gripped the transmitter sticks so tight that you cut-off the blood flow to your fingers. Don't laugh, I have done that before!

BTW it F--king snowed here last night, we got about 3 inches, the previous day the temp. was down to 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

And you are cold?

Any Rf freq. that is in the 1.0 GHz range is a problem to all animals & humans health, plus ultra low freq. under water have been screwing with sea mammals & I am talking about the sonar barriers to detect enemy submarines & such. Why do you think that there have been so many beaching of whales & dolphins? They got there receivers blown out by the super loud "Pings" from the military.



Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yes, i know the theory behind it. But your discounting the variables. One of which is Walkera RX units obviously have a problem with CF shadowing. Or at least the 2702V did. The logical assumption would be that since they develop all their own electronics. ALL of their RX could be prone to this problem. Farther adding to the assumption is the constant changes they are making to the new Devo RX with the antennas. First two short antenna, then one long, now two long. Come on, they don't know what the hell they are doing and it's evident.


Okay, i've wanted to bring this up a few times, now seems as good a time as any. Because i am more passionate about health and government then anything to do with helicopters, believe it or not. This is information i find important and everyone should at least consider it as a threat. It's been my assumption for nearly 10 years that radio frequency is one of the leading causes of cancer and illness in America. I feel they picked 2.4ghz on purpose too. But regardless of what anyone thinks. Call them "conspiracy theories". I call them actual "Conspiracies" that do exist. But take a read over this article and the references given at the bottom of the article. Believe me this is crap you won't find on the evening news until enough people find out and they can't keep a lid on it anymore. I guess one of the reasons i don't trust Walkera is because i spend MORE time studying governments and human behavior then i do flying helicopters. Walkera exhibits the same type of behavior as news media and government. Dishonesty.

The invisible threat that pulls apart DNA, causing genetic disorders and cancer!
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 12:30 PM
IHW Heli Division
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Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
I was giving the best case scenario on distance. But I do agree with you on Walkera is not sure of how to fix the problem.

Here you are in your video stating the temp. was 80 & with the wind blowing your fingers were getting cold. I think it was because you gripped the transmitter sticks so tight that you cut-off the blood flow to your fingers. Don't laugh, I have done that before!

BTW it F--king snowed here last night, we got about 3 inches, the previous day the temp. was down to 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

And you are cold?

Any Rf freq. that is in the 1.0 GHz range is a problem to all animals & humans health, plus ultra low freq. under water have been screwing with sea mamals & I am talking about the sonar barriers to detect enemy submarines & such. Why do you think that ther have been so many beachings of whales & dolphines? They got there receivers blown out by the super loud "Pings" from the military.
I am aware, it's not exactly like they can't use other frequencies. BUT there are laws and patents and all this kind of bureaucracy which dictates these things. No one really knows where some of this stuff is born from. I think it's all the builderberg group.

Anyway, yeah. It's like 80 with direct sunlight and it's warm. If you were in the shade it would drop to about 50. Since the wind is blowing at 15-25mph the wind chill is significant with the actual air temperature being in the 60s. Florida weather is a math equation based on many variables.

Anyway, i suppose i should be more careful not to go so far out over the cars. I want to get AMA and try the fields out. But the truth is i will be buying more batteries for the X5 before i pay $70 for the AMA and possibly end up having to pay it again in January. I don't feel like researching how they play that game right now. Besides, AMA only insures their pilots at a AMA sanctioned field. Not my spot at the movies Since they wouldn't let me fly at the AMA field, i don't know if it's worth paying to fly at. Kind of stupid isn't it?
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