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Old Oct 09, 2012, 06:40 PM
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No, it's good. I take criticisms well even though i might not always show it. I'm willing to sell the white one for a reasonable price. Since it is well used. But it has been rebuild except for the CF frame and upgraded. Someone trying to get into a heli like this would have to pay much more than just buying it from me. Thats how i look at it. Though, i think i get frustrated more at the RX/gyro than anything. Today i ripped my old rx off my original v450 (AGAIN!!!!!) and put the brand new one from the yellow heli on there (AGAIN). Unlike the last time, this time i had great results. I flew 6 packs almost back to back. No heat at all on the hobbywing platinum and the CX 4550kv motor was running just over body temps using the rhino 13T pinion. The motor was running nice and smooth too. I have the video to edit and upload. I think i only recorded 4 of the flights. I'm going to whack them all into one video since i can upload long videos to you tube now. I'm, of course, using the FRP blades that i've grown fond of, even though they are kind of sloppy in flight. I'm also using a old cracked up canopy. But the old white heli flew real nice today. Unfortunately it's been so long since i've really tried to fly it in 3d that it wasn't until the last flight i really started to warm up and get used to the wind again and start trusting the heli & gyros again. But then i ran out of charged packs! They are charging right now. Hoping to get another wave out there before the sun goes down. The one thing i noticed was when trying to do tick tocks the heli wants to tilt on the aileron axis some. I'm also scared to try reverse flight or inverted reverse flight because my V120D02S gyros don't like either one. I'm scared the 2702 might flip me around or drift like that one does. Maybe when i get used to flying it again. But honestly i'd still rather just sell them and grab a Gaui. For the time being, i'm considering getting my DX7 and a 7200BX and strapping it on the v450. That should be a big improvement in it's capabilities. But i suppose for now, with all the trash i give Walkera. It's possible i've just had a bunk RX this whole time. But in a way, thats kind of why i give Walkera so much trash. It seems that random bunk units make it out often in their smaller heli and now in the Master CP too. Just randomly! Poor QC. So if it is just the RX that has been giving me all these issues, that would make sense wouldn't it? Because i've already replaced and mix and matched all the rest of the electronics all over the place. It almost makes me want to put the CF blades back on for the next few flights.


Just for the record, i have a kinked neck today. Hard to move the neck.. Wait no it's not. I'm all hopped up on diazepam. I remember once joking that this stuff would be good for flying nerves! MAN IS IT EVER! There is a good reason why they give this stuff to snipers! On top of that i was able to move my neck enough to video the heli.
Integrity,
Are you sure your not dragging the cyclic side ways a little during the tic tocs creating the aileron roll? It only takes a slight amount of off center to creat the roll. I noticed when flying the sim I would roll everything I flew when doing tic tocs, just bad thumb control, I have gotten much better with repeated practice. I still have not done it for real though and after flying the sim, I am glad I waited.

Viking
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 08:05 PM
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Integrity,
Are you sure your not dragging the cyclic side ways a little during the tic tocs creating the aileron roll? It only takes a slight amount of off center to creat the roll. I noticed when flying the sim I would roll everything I flew when doing tic tocs, just bad thumb control, I have gotten much better with repeated practice. I still have not done it for real though and after flying the sim, I am glad I waited.

Viking
To an extent yes, that is happening. The problem is, it's much more exaggerated on the v450 than on even my v120 or 4f200. Plus on the sim i can do them much more stable. I still feel like the v450 is not going to do hard fast "blade's edge / hovering" tic-tocks. At least not without loosing the tail a little or becoming unstable. I think my old RX was really bunk man!! Like bad. This new one even feels more stable and so far has not given me any kind of brown/black out symptom or throttle cut/rev down. Plus, it's amazing how much cooler everything is running. It was cool out today, so that helped. But i'm still positive that the motor was running smoother and not as hot. The ESC of course ran cold as always. Most i get on that is about as hot as my hand is. I have 30 minutes of video edited and being rendered as a 1080 8mbps file. It won't look as nice as the original video, but it uploads much quicker. Besides my camera doesn't ever seem to be all that sharp in the first place. I need to get a go pro. But there has been enough wasted money here, IMO.

I suppose now i need to buy a new RX. But guess what, it won't be a 2702V. If i did that it would seriously be only to sell it. Looks like i'll have to buy a DX7 soon and eventually get that 7200BX. I'm sure that will solve every issue i have ever had with this heli. New ESC, RX, Servos. I could have had a V8!
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:23 PM
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To an extent yes, that is happening. The problem is, it's much more exaggerated on the v450 than on even my v120 or 4f200. Plus on the sim i can do them much more stable. I still feel like the v450 is not going to do hard fast "blade's edge / hovering" tic-tocks. At least not without loosing the tail a little or becoming unstable. I think my old RX was really bunk man!! Like bad. This new one even feels more stable and so far has not given me any kind of brown/black out symptom or throttle cut/rev down. Plus, it's amazing how much cooler everything is running. It was cool out today, so that helped. But i'm still positive that the motor was running smoother and not as hot. The ESC of course ran cold as always. Most i get on that is about as hot as my hand is. I have 30 minutes of video edited and being rendered as a 1080 8mbps file. It won't look as nice as the original video, but it uploads much quicker. Besides my camera doesn't ever seem to be all that sharp in the first place. I need to get a go pro. But there has been enough wasted money here, IMO.



I suppose now i need to buy a new RX. But guess what, it won't be a 2702V. If i did that it would seriously be only to sell it. Looks like i'll have to buy a DX7 soon and eventually get that 7200BX. I'm sure that will solve every issue i have ever had with this heli. New ESC, RX, Servos. I could have had a V8!

I have a Devo 10 TX now and I see it has the capability of allowing individual D/R and EXPO for pitch, roll and yaw selectable by individual switch positions. Another words if I am thinking of it correctly, if my thumb side pull in a tic toc can't be completely corrected by practice I should be able to dumb up the aileron channel and just prior to doing the tic toc throw the aileron switch to allow my thumb to throw the stick up and down for the tic toc but have little affect on roll. Just have to be quick on the switch. I'll be able to experiment with this in normal flight to see the reaction of the ship with different switch positions and from that be able to judge how the tic toc will go.
If some one has done this and it is the correct use of the system let me know, it will save experimenting time for me.

That would be a great move with the RX change.

Viking
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 11:49 PM
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I have a Devo 10 TX now and I see it has the capability of allowing individual D/R and EXPO for pitch, roll and yaw selectable by individual switch positions. Another words if I am thinking of it correctly, if my thumb side pull in a tic toc can't be completely corrected by practice I should be able to dumb up the aileron channel and just prior to doing the tic toc throw the aileron switch to allow my thumb to throw the stick up and down for the tic toc but have little affect on roll. Just have to be quick on the switch. I'll be able to experiment with this in normal flight to see the reaction of the ship with different switch positions and from that be able to judge how the tic toc will go.
If some one has done this and it is the correct use of the system let me know, it will save experimenting time for me.

That would be a great move with the RX change.

Viking
Not sure any of that is needed. I use 100% d/r on position 0 and 1. On position 0 i have 20% expo and on position 1 i have 80% expo. I fly most of the time on position 1 but when i move into 3d i will flip it to position 0 so that the sticks are much more sensitive in the middle. Allowing for quicker change in cyclic direction for things like tick tocs. I suppose, from what it sounds like. You will have more control over the expo and DR of the pitch, roll, yaw now too. So you can use positive or negative expo on those too to soften or harden those controls? That would be useful for some things too. For instance on my D05 i have to manually program the pitch curve with "expo" and it's permanent. The reason for having to do this is the poor tail rotor ratio. FAST pitch changes will kick the tail so the middle of the curve needs to be flattened out some. Having a feature like your describing would be nice to i can have a semi-flat and hard-flat center on my pitch curve for that heli and switch between them. I wonder how spectrum DR/Expo works. Because thats my next TX. Even though the Devo 10 looks pretty cool. I don't own or plan on owning any Walkera heli with a Devo RX, pretty much ever. So i hope i can get used to the change. I might get a magic cube if they ever make it worth a damn. Some how i doubt it though.

So in theory, i suppose softening the sticks might help you with your thumb pull situations. But honestly, if you are a Tip of the stick thumber. You should shorten your sticks. The longer they are the less you have to move them to produce MORE movement from the heli. So the shorter they are, the less sensitive they will be. If your a gripper than you might like them longer. I use a longer cyclic and a totally minimized throttle/rudder. Plus i use about 35% expo on my rudder full time.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:35 AM
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Hey biggie, is the v400 swash the same as the v450? It looks close. Do you know what size the v400 blades are? Is the yellow on both sides of the blades?
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:41 AM
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No swash is way off compaired to the v450 swash, and i think the stock blades are 290mm. Yes there is yellow on the blades.they are not carbon fiber ....



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Hey biggie, is the v400 swash the same as the v450? It looks close. Do you know what size the v400 blades are? Is the yellow on both sides of the blades?
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:49 PM
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No swash is way off compaired to the v450 swash, and i think the stock blades are 290mm. Yes there is yellow on the blades.they are not carbon fiber ....

Thank you, Was just looking for a nice set of yellow blades that were not those ugly ones that always come unbalanced. I suppose it's tape or nothing then. They look like CF, what are they foam or FRP or something?
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:23 PM
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Ya or something , but im no pro. They break different than carbon fiber
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 01:23 AM
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Hey biggie, i've been looking at helicopters. I still am probably going to eventually get a X5. But something else grabbed my attention. CopterX has cloned the Align 600E. It's a near identical clone too. The whole kit is only like $300 or something. I'm thinking about getting that and hybridizing it with Align parts and basically using Align for replacements. This seems like a really cheap way to get into a quality 600 heli and eventually get all the parts moved over to Align parts. ALTHOUGH! some people were saying they use the CopterX parts instead because some of the parts are better for one reason or the other. This is pretty interesting to me. Heli and parts availability is pretty limited though.

I suppose unless someone steps out and makes me an offer i guess i'm just going to hold on to my 2 v450s. I'll keep the brand new one on the the shelf for now. I'm going to keep flying mine with the new one's RX installed to see if any of the old failures occur again. Last time i tried this it took 14 or more flights till the issue occurred again. By that time i was convinced i had found and fixed whatever the cause was, then it would blackout again. If the RX does end up being the whole problem, especially after trying this once before..... well.. Lets just say i'm not holding my breath.

I don't suppose anyone has a 2702V they want to sell dirt cheap? /sigh



Oh well, here are 5 flights from yesterday. All in one video, Since i can do that now i wanted to see if it would let me do 30 minutes. So, It's about 30min long all together. I'm rusty and it's super windy so theres a lot of 8s going on between flips and things. I think i do pull some nice big arching loops though.

V450D01 - 10-09-12 - 5 consecutive flights (28 min 40 sec)
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 01:53 AM
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After the 5 flights in the video posted above, I went home, charged my packs and tried to go back out and fly again. I got in 3 flights i think. Until it started getting pretty dark and i was having trouble seeing. I tried to pull a right rolling loop, but the heli just would not pull up and react fast enough. I smashed right into the ground! Next time i'm using CF blades. The FRP blades are just to sloppy for 3D and hard pitch changes. Total damage was.... uhm 1 servo horn and a set of blades. Nothing bent, nothing else broken. Pretty lucky. The cost of the broken parts is about $10, if you count the servo horn pack for $3 and the FRP blades for $6. I have been using the 4f200's main gear screw to mount together the Trex main gear assembly (because it's a longer screw) it's a fully threaded screw. It's the same 2mm diameter but because it's threaded in the center, it's weaker. So it sheered on impact this time. The main gear is 100% unharmed and the motor pinion is a rhino steel pinion so it's not bent or damaged either. Over all, I'm starting to remember some of the redeeming characteristics of this Heli. A guy at my LHS regarded the Trex 450 airframe as "kind of flimsy". Now that i'm looking at the specs. The engineered design is likely over all better shape than the WK airframe. But did you know that the Align 450 pro only uses 1.2mm CF for it's air frame? Where the V450 uses 3mm thick CF with a 2 tiered, cylinder column reinforced design. This wide frame fully protects the motor for one. On top of that, the tiered design is very hard to break. I have had SO many crashes on mine and the CF frame is still in one piece. So thats something big in my opinion. I've always been a little concerned that the 450 pro would end up being less durable but fly better and fail less.

Anyway, i should have packed it in when the street lights went on and people started driving with their headlights on! But over all. This is what happens when all you do if fly your sim for 3+ weeks and then bust out a real heli at dusk!
V450D01 - First legit OOOOPS crash! (1 min 59 sec)





So, for any of you who had concerns, that had seen the way i have been "countersinking" the Savox/Align servo horns in order to get a nut attached to the back side to prevent the link from pulling loose. I have good news, and this last crash is just one of many experiences i am referencing from. So far i have not had any break in flight. But here is a picture of the last one i broke in the video above. One extra nice little thing, the ball links i am using are Blade 450(long) links. I think the ball is just a tiny bit bigger (tenths of mm) than the stock v450 ball but it still fits the linkage. So as a side effect, typically, when i crash and break a servo horn the pictures below are what i can expect. The link always seems to stay attached to the linkage and the horn breaks at the servo spline. As shown in the following (more images attached):
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:17 AM
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If you shorten the sticks it will make the heli more sensitive to stick movement.
If you are a thumb-er & move your thumb 1/2 inch on a 2" stick then do the same with a 1" stick the distance your thumb moved is the same, but the amount of gimble travel is twice as much. I pinch the stick between my thumb & index finger about half-way up the stick, I find I get more precise control of my heli that way. Sometimes I do a thumb on the cyclic & pinch the throttle/collective.

I have not been flying much, my GE B6 charger power supply died again, so charging on the 800 Mah balance charger that came with the V450 is futuile. five 2500 Mah packs & five 2200 Mah packs would take forever to charge.

I have a replacement power supply coming, it should have been here yesterday.

I starting to think of buying a bigger charger & power supply, the one I looked at would put out 1000 Watts & a free parallel charging board, all for the low price of $300.00 Ouch!

I might just down size to a 30 Amp unit.



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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
So in theory, i suppose softening the sticks might help you with your thumb pull situations. But honestly, if you are a Tip of the stick thumber. You should shorten your sticks. The longer they are the less you have to move them to produce MORE movement from the heli. So the shorter they are, the less sensitive they will be. If your a gripper than you might like them longer. I use a longer cyclic and a totally minimized throttle/rudder. Plus i use about 35% expo on my rudder full time.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 01:36 PM
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Sorry about the wreck integrity! You get more flight in a week than i do in a month. I do love the v450 frame, i was thinking about putting all my v400 electrics in one. i stared at 4 am so at 12 i was ready to fly. I got 4 batteries In a row, itwas windy but the v450 didnt care. My throttle with the stock esc and align motor is topped pit at 70! I wonder why such a change, with motor. I use to run 90%.
the nano is really small at fun . I can now hover inverted at eye level. Maybe i will do with bigger heli soon,
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
If you shorten the sticks it will make the heli more sensitive to stick movement.
If you are a thumb-er & move your thumb 1/2 inch on a 2" stick then do the same with a 1" stick the distance your thumb moved is the same, but the amount of gimble travel is twice as much.
Are you sure you don't have it backwards? Its like a lever on a fulcrum, right? The longer the lever the more torque and lift movement you will be able to produce at the opposite end. The shorter the lever the less movement and exponentially less lifting force also.

In either case, if i'm wrong. The fact still remains that it is VERY common for people using mode 2 TX to input unintentional rudder on their collective stick. Making it shorter was a recommendation i got somewhere and it helps. Now i honestly switch from thumbing and griping. I HATE using a neck strap because my hands are too big i guess. I see a lot of people using a neck strap. It just gets in my way. I can thumb or grip without a strap. So each person will be different. That much is for sure.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Sorry about the wreck integrity! You get more flight in a week than i do in a month. I do love the v450 frame, i was thinking about putting all my v400 electrics in one. i stared at 4 am so at 12 i was ready to fly. I got 4 batteries In a row, itwas windy but the v450 didnt care. My throttle with the stock esc and align motor is topped pit at 70! I wonder why such a change, with motor. I use to run 90%.
the nano is really small at fun . I can now hover inverted at eye level. Maybe i will do with bigger heli soon,
LOL, you know me. The v450 was back together an hour later and ready to fly the next day after work. My current plan is to invest in a DX7 or DX8. MAYBE the 8 because it has 3 idle up switches and i do love me some governor mode! So that would be just wonderful to have! Plus 3 pitch and throttle curves for each mode too. It's just expensive. Once i have that i will buy a 7200BX and decide what helicopter kit to get. Right now i'm leaning strong toward that CopterX/Align 600 hybrid heli. But honestly i'm not too keen on running 2 pack helis just yet. So i'm still eyeballing the X5 hard core. I mean i almost feel like if i'm going to go to a 600+ size i might as well go with the Align 800, right? Since we're all living in fantasy land over here.

Either way, i can say this much. I'm POSITIVE my old rx was bunk as hell! This new one is even working better as far as the gyros. Which were really pissing me off on my old RX! This new one is totally reacting different in the wind and everything. It has more correction and movement from the gyros! The old one hardly moved the servos at all. After 10 packs i hope it stays this way. Because this is around the time, last time i tried this rx, that all the inconsistencies started showing up again and then the blackouts too. Should be good now because i defaulted the ESC and am using proper settings that i know are safe and the motor and esc are running cool. Unlike last time, i think i was so frustrated and had no confidence that the RX would solve the problem too. I didn't give it a good chance, and i should have reset my ESC but didn't. If that was the problem the whole time, it's just crazy because there is no signs of damage or any logical reason this would happen. The RX must just loose power or over heat or something weird and it was shutting me down at totally random times. I can't tell you how happy i am this last crash was actually my fault! Now i just have to get a new RX for it. The question is do i just get a new 2702V, while they are still available in stores. Or do i just wait and get a 7200BX when i get a spekrum TX? In either case a nano is in my future too i think everyone is really looking like they love theirs. Plus some times, i would love to be able to fly indoors and not worry about going to a field or park.

Now with the Trueblood hard dampers and CF blades with the new RX. The heli is actually flying pretty nice. The question will be if it can keep up with me and what i'm trying to translate from the sim! It's nice the repairs are so cheap. If the gyros and heli will perform now. Perhaps i can advance like i want. The damn thing still won't piro inverted correctly though.... Still working on that. So until i can hammer that issue down the V450 might still be slotted for sale! Because if i can't do that, i can't trust it for inverted circuits either.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 06:08 PM
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The longer the lever the more weight or torque you have on the object. But what you are getting confused with is: How much distance the gimbals move with a 1/2 inch movement with a two inch stick versus a one inch stick with the same 1/2 inch movement. The lever or fulcrum point on the 1/2" stick is closer to the fulcrum point, so the movement at the gimbals is more.

Sounds weird, but for a sloppier feel go with the longer stick, it takes more stroking to get it to move! Ha-Ha-Ha!



Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Are you sure you don't have it backwards? Its like a lever on a fulcrum, right? The longer the lever the more torque and lift movement you will be able to produce at the opposite end. The shorter the lever the less movement and exponentially less lifting force also.

In either case, if i'm wrong. The fact still remains that it is VERY common for people using mode 2 TX to input unintentional rudder on their collective stick. Making it shorter was a recommendation i got somewhere and it helps. Now i honestly switch from thumbing and griping. I HATE using a neck strap because my hands are too big i guess. I see a lot of people using a neck strap. It just gets in my way. I can thumb or grip without a strap. So each person will be different. That much is for sure.
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