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Old Sep 28, 2012, 07:27 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Okay, I finally got around to updating some of the text in the build log and i noticed that the whole first section of the airframe pictures was missing. The host must have timed out and reset my post half way though uploading. So i had to delete all the pictures and upload them again to get them in order. I have rewrote the text for the pictures as well. I also updated the text in some of the other sections that was missing. I may have a few small updates after this. But i'm essentially done with this heli now with this complete. I would like to say i have completed my goal with the V450 at this stage. But i did not. I will now be packaging both v450s for sale and moving on to the next project. I've grown tired of trying to fix Walkera's flubs. Like many much more educated, experienced, or skilled people before me, i'm sure. Where is that DJFuji guy now-a-days anyway? I would bet money he's not out somewhere enjoying flying his "NEW" 6 axis POS from Walkera, that i'm sure of.

Custom V450 - Parts Build & Mods
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 09:39 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I wish you luck with that , i havnt had any luck selling my v400 on ebay.probably cause its a walkera lol. If i do i might get the new nano cp , it looks fun , i want a good baby flyer. I had to mod everything about the v120 it seemed , damn walkera and there crap.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 11:32 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I wish you luck with that , i havnt had any luck selling my v400 on ebay.probably cause its a walkera lol. If i do i might get the new nano cp , it looks fun , i want a good baby flyer. I had to mod everything about the v120 it seemed , damn walkera and there crap.
Yeah, the nano looks cool. But it still has brush motors and a motor driven tail. So some of the 3D you might be trying to get into won't work on that heli. The tail can't change speeds fast enough. But it will do flips and rolls and things like that. Reverse flight moves might be harder. I'm thinking about the 130X myself. But i think i'll just fly my two v120s till the RX breaks, then who knows. I just know i need a good 200-250 size and a good 450+ size. After i get something reliable in those, then i can worry about the little micro again. By then there is bound to be all new micro heli hitting the market. Plus i'll have a spektrum TX which is likely to be cross compatible with like 10 different brands. You know, as one of the current standard in aeronautical RX control systems that they are. Of course Futaba would be excellent too, but thats a whole different price range
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:26 AM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
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Is is really that bad?

I have been reading this thread for a long time now and I have recieved lots of help with repairs along the way. But it sure seems like this is turning into a Walkera hate forum.

These things are just toys and I wonder if we are expecting instrument grade performance from something that was never intended or designed to be a high-end machine. I'm stepping up to an X5, but it is WAY more expensive than the V450D01.

Yup, the servos suck, the motor sucks, the screws are soft and a few other issues, but the parts are super cheap (IMO). But, I almost expect this from a machine that costs this much less.

By the time I get my X5 with all the little upgrades and a good radio, I'll be spending about $1300... isnt that 3 X the price of a Walkera? Are we expecting the same performance and quality?

Even though these things have issues, the advice I get on this forum has me flying every day with only a few problems now and then that aren't caused by my piloting skills. I fly light 3D, so maybe when I start flying it harder it will break more and get me all worked up like the other Walkera haters on here. If you really want to hate a helicopter, go buy an Art-Tech from Banana Hobby. That will make you red in the face for sure! Worse than unreliable, it was never designed to get off the ground.... then try to get service from Sneaky Pete at Banana!

Even with all my problems, the V450D01 still seems like a decent first step into a 450 CP machine.

This should get the debate going!
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 12:16 PM
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Well said brad. My V450 has served me well. It is What it is.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 01:10 PM
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I can't say anything for the V450 because I just sold mine and never flew it . But I do haves Genius that has been virtually indestructible. That I also have flown in 15 to 20 mph winds. I believe walkera does make great micros.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 01:51 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I have been reading this thread for a long time now and I have recieved lots of help with repairs along the way. But it sure seems like this is turning into a Walkera hate forum.

These things are just toys and I wonder if we are expecting instrument grade performance from something that was never intended or designed to be a high-end machine. I'm stepping up to an X5, but it is WAY more expensive than the V450D01.

Yup, the servos suck, the motor sucks, the screws are soft and a few other issues, but the parts are super cheap (IMO). But, I almost expect this from a machine that costs this much less.

By the time I get my X5 with all the little upgrades and a good radio, I'll be spending about $1300... isnt that 3 X the price of a Walkera? Are we expecting the same performance and quality?

Even though these things have issues, the advice I get on this forum has me flying every day with only a few problems now and then that aren't caused by my piloting skills. I fly light 3D, so maybe when I start flying it harder it will break more and get me all worked up like the other Walkera haters on here. If you really want to hate a helicopter, go buy an Art-Tech from Banana Hobby. That will make you red in the face for sure! Worse than unreliable, it was never designed to get off the ground.... then try to get service from Sneaky Pete at Banana!

Even with all my problems, the V450D01 still seems like a decent first step into a 450 CP machine.

This should get the debate going!
I'm pretty sure it's just me that hates them. Though i used to try to defend them before i knew better. But if you really want to get me going, sure, we can do this. Though, i wish and you may wish you hadn't.

The V450:
Shouldn't the damn helicopter at least not fail for 400-$500 though? If it does fail, shouldn't the manufacturer have some type of warranty of any kind or tech support or something? Part of my problems are probably because i got the heli used and it was a wow hobbies version with the turbo ace motor. But you know what, it's not the first Walkera to give me the same type of issues. I suppose I'm the idiot for thinking a company should stand behind their product? The v450 and probably the V500 are probably, arguably the WORST heli they make. Sure there is an ocean between us. BUT ITS 2012, come on. You guys could at least have some kind of support line or something. Kind of sucks since they don't even sell Walkera products, reportedly, anywhere in the streets of Hong Kong. I think most of their customer base is probably English speaking too. That alone says enough for me. I for one would be glad to pay for a Walkera V450 as much as $800 possibly more if they would ever actually address the real problems with their helicopter rather than release new gimmick devices to sucker in new customers. The V450 frame and rotor used to be pretty quality stuff and cheap too. Almost identical to the Align FBL head,etc. Until the "new v450" where they make the parts out of cheaper materials and charge MORE for them, just because they are "new". Because i'm currently invested too much in replacement parts, blades, gears, ect. Just from failures of the same electrical nature. I would have gladly paid more for the heli to just have a good ESC and good servos. Not the worst ones made on any 450 anywhere. So i rebuilt it using new stuff, 3 times in fact. That includes 3 different motors, 3 different ESCs, stock setup included. I think the only motor i didn't try was the stock motor. But that runs too hot for Florida in the summer. I even borrowed an Align motor and tried that. All that was left to try to replace was the RX. When i did that it was flying pretty great. Still only made it maybe 10-15 flights between the same type of failure occurred. I've basically rebuild and redesigned the helicopter from the ground up with 3 different sets of electronics using the same RX, even when using a new totally different RX. Same issue. Most of the tech in these things is NOT patented and is basically open source. Thats why no one is getting in trouble for cloning other brands. The difference here is all these other brands have a certain amount of cross compatibility. Being they use a lot of 3rd party parts. For instance, lots of heli mfg. are cross compatible if you want a Spektrum, Futaba, or even a Walkera RX. Or they use Scorpion motors and their own ESC or a scorpion ESC or any other brand that is not the heli manufacturers brand. This frees them up for R&D and actual quality control budget instead of having to pay to produce their own motors etc. However Walkera had the resources, being in china to mass produce any damn thing they want. Plus they make everything as hard as possible to do anything but buy from them. That is fine, commercialism at work. I have no problem with that. I've hated on Sony for years for doing the same thing. But they still have the right to do it. Only, when everyone else starts to standardize things the one company standing out being totally peripheral should have a superior product. Otherwise, shouldn't people at some point realize that all the other brands are actually better, for the same price, more options and have better support in some cases, not to mention are working off of a growing compatible standard in technology between even competing companies. Just to satisfy their customer base. I mean apple has been trying to stay completely peripheral. I'm sure thats working out for them now right? Since all i ever see anyone carry is a android phone lately and the only people i know with a mac are in the music industry using them in their studio or in graphic design. My 65 year old dad has an iphone though. Just saying.

Now for the 4f200. Bought this thing brand new. It flew fine the first 3-5 flights. Then it started just tipping over on spool up! I read that it had that issue and was surprised that i was not experiencing it. Till i did. Turned out it was the RX. Totally bunk. EVERYONE had issues with this helicopter. In between upgrading the RX i still tried to fly the heli. It completely blacked out on me randomly. Sometimes right after take off, sometimes half way though the flight. Sometimes it would take 10 flights before it happens. Just like my V450 has been doing. So i bought a new RX and the issues of tip over, random tail wagging and many other things just vanished. GOOD JOB WK! Release a whole line of helicopter with a worthless RX. Everyone knows about this. So the random blackout issue WAS STILL THERE! Until i replaced the ESC with a hobbywing ESC. Now it has none of those issues and is BY FAR my most reliable, stable and consistent Walkera helicopter. With only a few mechanical wear and tear issues that are annoying but completely maintainable.

The V120D05 V2
I bought this heli brand new as well. After resetting the mechanics and adjusting everything properly. Since it really did not come RTF, and the vendor did not test fly it, as claimed. It was the only Walkera heli that would have just crashed had i flown it out of the box. That issue aside. The V120D05 is questionably the most problematic helicopter i know of that Walkera has ever released. This particular helicopter i bought knowing it had these issues, hoping to fix them. Similar to why i bought the V450, but i could never have imagined how bad it was actually going to be. The V120D05 has cost me over $500 just for the RTF heli and upgrade parts. I installed the RX from the V120D02S and suddenly at 100% throttle i could actually fly the helicopter stable. I even got it to invert with a little trouble. You see because the belt drive provides a poor tail rotor to main rotor raito. It's only about 2:1 if your rounding off. So the head speed of the stock heli using the same motor as the V120D02S would just loose the tail in ANY somewhat speedy pitch change. Including climb outs. So i installed a new motor to up the head speed and subsequently the tail rotor speed as well. Now with the 16,500kv Oversky motor this helicopter SCREAMS, but you still have to watch your pitch changes. Now, after modifications, this helicopter is my most durable heli and flies almost when ever i want it too. Just like my D02S, but more durable.

The V120D02S
This helicopter was by far the best release by Walkera. It came completely ready to fly, like the rest did. This was the heli that brought me into the brand and then i found the very cool looking 4f200. Both were ordered same day with 2801-pro. But the D02S was superiorly stable and reliable in comparison to the others. The RX was obviously much better than all the previous 120 heli. This was likely the very best helicopter in it's size class! I have my doubts it can hold that title with a 6 axis only gyro. But i have yet to fly one to know any better. Though the tail drive gearing was fragile, a simple mod had that fixed and i have only ever had to buy 2 sets of servos since owning and flying this heli every day for nearly a year! I've stripped maybe 4-5 sets of servo gears, but after installing the replacement gears and using a thinner paper clip for the canopy mounting pin. I never strip them, even in full on inverted smashes into the ground. Same with my D05, it's still got the original servos and it's first set of replacement gears. I have the most part of a 10 pack of gear sets still sitting in my parts box for months now, just waiting for the day they might get to be used. A++ Great job on this helicopter Walkera!! Even though it's really Nine-eagles that produces the replacement gear sets for the servos. It's great they are compatible.


One more important caveat. My main gripe is with the larger Walkera heli. They are still quite good as a "learner RTF CP brand" for the micro helicopters in the 100-120 size range. Though the 6 axis concerns me. It is probably best for learning. Even though i feel like it could cause problems down the road when rookies advance and only 3 axis is available. It feels like you would have to learn muscle memories all over again. Could have just learned 3 axis in the first place, like everyone else. It just seems like in 2012, if your going to make a 450+ size heli. It should be targeted at intermediate pilots, not total rookies. But being the proprietary masters they are. Knowing most people don't know better. 6 is better than 3. So marking a 6 axis sells better to the unknowing masses. That is fine also. But if you progress on a v120 and decide to move up. You might be forced into feeling like the only option is the V450, since it's the only one with the 6 axis gyro! But again, maybe that thing is the best thing since sliced bread. I don't know. I just hope it's worth the hype.

Somewhere up there i should have mentioned that most of the time, if i stick to only hovering the v450. It won't fail ever. I've done a 15 pack hover only test with cooling periods between taking place over 2-3 days. No failure on the v450. It's only when i bring it to the field and open it up. I should also mention that previous to 2011/2012 most of their models were pretty bad and ever changing and constantly releasing new models. So they have gotten a lot better in that regard i suppose.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 01:56 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
202 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apphoard View Post
I can't say anything for the V450 because I just sold mine and never flew it . But I do haves Genius that has been virtually indestructible. That I also have flown in 15 to 20 mph winds. I believe walkera does make great micros.
I have 2 of these, one with a Turbo Ace motor and one stock. You are right, they are tough little birds and I think they are perfect for learning 3D. The 450 is just too crazy to learn on when you first try inverted flight.

Whoever designed the Genius CP at Walkera.. is one!

I think Walkera owes me a few free parts for being so nice to them! We could turn this into a Walkera love-fest! Where are all the haters? I thought I'd be in big trouble by now!
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 02:32 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I have 2 of these, one with a Turbo Ace motor and one stock. You are right, they are tough little birds and I think they are perfect for learning 3D. The 450 is just too crazy to learn on when you first try inverted flight.

Whoever designed the Genius CP at Walkera.. is one!

I think Walkera owes me a few free parts for being so nice to them! We could turn this into a Walkera love-fest! Where are all the haters? I thought I'd be in big trouble by now!
I would have been happy if they would just sent me a few free T-shirts for the $5000+ i've probably spent on their products and repairs this year.

Same thing to wowhobbies. Not only have i spent tons of cash there, i've probably helped sell their stupid turbo ace motors too. I bet they just have t-shirts and hats laying around collecting dust. I tend to see the guy at my LHS giving away quite a few things to his Align and other brand customers. I wonder if there is a reason no one carries Walkera in ANY LHS anywhere. Perhaps if they did i might get a freaking free hat every few thousand dollars spent. Plus i wouldn't have to pay $10 for shipping multiple times a week. Like those times you forget to order something, or broke the one part you don't already have. Would be nice to just swing by the LHS.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 05:18 PM
Semi Expert
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United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
281 Posts
Well Brad:

Between me & two other people here, we are the only ones that have the 2703H-D & the Devo 10 which has 10 channels, but the RX only has nine.

I am not impressed with the the build/reliability/support/setup of this RTF helicopter that I paid 1/2 the price of a full blown Thunder Tiger Raptor 30 Nitro heli with all the servos minus the tail gyro/RX. My Raptor is 3 times the size of my V450 & easier to see, and was more reliable.

The V450 V2 RX stinks, plus the gyro is awful to deal with, I flew better using a fly-bar heli.

That is all I have to say for now.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I have been reading this thread for a long time now and I have recieved lots of help with repairs along the way. But it sure seems like this is turning into a Walkera hate forum.

These things are just toys and I wonder if we are expecting instrument grade performance from something that was never intended or designed to be a high-end machine. I'm stepping up to an X5, but it is WAY more expensive than the V450D01.

Yup, the servos suck, the motor sucks, the screws are soft and a few other issues, but the parts are super cheap (IMO). But, I almost expect this from a machine that costs this much less.

By the time I get my X5 with all the little upgrades and a good radio, I'll be spending about $1300... isnt that 3 X the price of a Walkera? Are we expecting the same performance and quality?

Even though these things have issues, the advice I get on this forum has me flying every day with only a few problems now and then that aren't caused by my piloting skills. I fly light 3D, so maybe when I start flying it harder it will break more and get me all worked up like the other Walkera haters on here. If you really want to hate a helicopter, go buy an Art-Tech from Banana Hobby. That will make you red in the face for sure! Worse than unreliable, it was never designed to get off the ground.... then try to get service from Sneaky Pete at Banana!

Even with all my problems, the V450D01 still seems like a decent first step into a 450 CP machine.

This should get the debate going!
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 05:33 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Well Brad:

Between me & two other people here, we are the only ones that have the 2703H-D & the Devo 10 which has 10 channels, but the RX only has nine.

I am not impressed with the the build/reliability/support/setup of this RTF helicopter that I paid 1/2 the price of a full blown Thunder Tiger Raptor 30 Nitro heli with all the servos minus the tail gyro/RX. My Raptor is 3 times the size of my V450 & easier to see, and was more reliable.

The V450 V2 RX stinks, plus the gyro is awful to deal with, I flew better using a fly-bar heli.

That is all I have to say for now.
I have no idea how good this is, but slap some servos in it and a RX/gyro and you've got a flybar 450 for under or around $200. Now we're talking about a price i wouldn't mind if the thing failed. The whole helicopter costs $64 and you can install whatever electronics you like. I think it cost me nearly double that to buy individual parts to build a V450. We all know the whole heli costs a lot more too. This cheap 450 here even comes with a fiberglass canopy, CF frame, CNC rotor and some not so bad quality parts. Repair almost anything broken on your helicopter by buying a replacement frame for $64 and using it's parts. That ends up being only a few dollars more than the cost of one single Walkera V450 rotor head.

http://www.xheli.com/18h17-exi450-sport.html


Then there is CopterX and Tarrot and handfuls of others.


Sometimes things just make me crazy. Walkera is not in the right price range. Maybe thats why i get mad. It should be a lot less for their 450. It's like when i walk into a 7-11 or convenience store. They have 16 oz bottles of WATER for $1.49 but 1 liter bottles of high fructose "poison" tea beverage such as brisk or whatever for only $99. But no one ever really sees how screwed up that is till i point it out to them as they are grabbing a bottle of water. Sure i'd pay more for the lack of the corn syrup anyway. But thats not the point. In the future, Alien races will make fun of us idiot humans for PURCHASING WATER on a planet made of 75% water.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 07:30 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,150 Posts
I wont talk about how bad walkera is ....... I do love the wk2801 tx, and all the rx are great, ...anyway i worked all day, oncall, and came home to buy a nano cp. it should be fun, it completely takes me away from walkera, so you will hear it here if it sucks also. But the reviews are great so far. I have not wrecked the 600, so i will keep my record with this heli also.the more i get away from walkera ,the less i wreck. Its just bad parts guys, plain and simple, maybe one day i will do 3d inside lol. Probaly not,lol,

Happy flying all
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
1,258 Posts
Get what you pay for...maybe.

Integrity.
Buddy...you have heard me say it before and I'll say it again, in aviation big or small it dosn't matter what you buy, there will always be issues. Never buy a real airplane or helicopter, you would be very disapointed. In a few years you will acumulate dozens maybe hundreds of bulletins that address issues on a machine you just spent 4 million dollars to buy. You get to the point when you hate to get the mail knowing there's another expensive bulletin that must be taken care of on your bird...a real bummer.
I have watched and read issues that have been a constant problem with the V450 and from what I see it has been related to servos and the ESC.
So I have replaced them with higher end Align and Castle products and so far things are good, no more issues than what I created for myself in the beginning. So after the issues have been identified and corrected with better componants and simple maintenance the first time, that should be the end of it.
Did the stock componants have issues, absolutely. Should they have been caught at the factory before shippment, absolutely.
But again even for the million dollar birds they leave the factory with problems that are caught latter and left to the new owner to correct.
So for the V450 I could see the FAA issueing an AD on the servos: replace before 10 hours of flight due to wiring issues. An AD on the ESC: replace before futher flight due to overheating and inflight shutdown. And a Walkera issued ASB on the tail drive belt: check belt tension before futher flight to prevent a high belt tension causeing an in flight belt failure.

It's just aviation, nothing is perfect, everythings a challenge, but it's fantastic and that's why we do it.
Now if I coud just make my thumbs as reliable and as capable as the V450 has become with the new componants.
And so it goes, my M120 has become the scraficial lamb in gaining flight experiance to protect my V450 from those mistakes and the V450 will one day become the sacrificial lamb to protect the Gaui or whatever....it's the circle of life.
I'll see you in the X5 forum.

Viking
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 08:24 PM
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Joined Mar 2011
462 Posts
IHW I have to disagree about only seeing people carrying androids. Maybe it's your location I don't know. All I see up here near the capital. Is people carrying iPhones. Just saying.
I will not defend the the V450 that's for sure though . Because I think you are the one that possibly saved me from experiencing all of problems It has. That's right IHW from seeing all the problems you had with yours I decided to sell mine before I actually flew it!
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:40 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
202 Posts
You guys make lots of good points, but I still think this thing does quite well for how cheap they are. I bought my Wow V450D01 with a case, a hot motor, a battery, and a 2801 for $459. If you take off the cost of the TX, battery and case....I spent $231 for the heli. I think its a GREAT price for a flybarless 450.

I use the 2801 for my custom CB180Z and both of my Genius CPs. So I paid even less for these without the TX. Thats been convienient when flying 3 different birds.

I read all about it before I bought it so I knew it wasn't the best, but I'm sure glad that I didn't do my learning and crashing on a new X5!

I hear lots of complaining that Walkera doesnt have "customer service folks" or great technical service. Where I come from thats the function of the distributor.... they guy that just made 30% on the heli for being a middle man. You don't call Honda in Japan when you have car problems, you call your dealer and a good one will look after your service needs.... not the manufacturer directly.

Walkera is the designer and manufacturer and thats all they should be doing. A great distributor will provide value added customer service, not just the very lowest price.

I find techical assistance is less important all the time anyway. I get answer on this board in a matter of hours, from guys that really know their stuff.

Isn't anyone else amazed how you can smash these things into the ground a dozen times at high speed, bending and breaking all sorts of parts... take it back to the bench and, within a few hours make it fly as good as new again?

I've also accepted the fact that most (not all) of my serious damage came as a result of pilot error not quality issues. Luckily, my motor and servo failure(s) happened low to the ground and I was able to put them down.I now use great servos and a better motor so I think many of my big problems are behind me.

I know these things are just toys & I'm convinced its time for me to add another bird to the fleet. So we will see how much better a new X5 will be. I first gotta figure who I'm going to be buying it and the parts from. Any suggestions on a good Gaui dealer?
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