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Old Sep 12, 2012, 03:31 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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I own a V120D02S and Master CP with 6 axis gyro that cannot be turned off. There is no issue of them behaving like the 6 axis gyro of the Genius. For a start, you can fly 3D with them but not with the Genius. In fact, I do not feel that much difference in the V120D02S except that it is more stable. I am now able to fly simple continuous pattern type 3D which I think the 6 axis gyro did help. On the Master CP, it seems that the corrective action of the 6 axis gyro is more apparent but I haven't tried to turn it down. After trying the 6 axis on the V120D02S, I do not have any reservations on buying a heli with a 6 axis gyro again. However, it is not a major selling point for me either.

This is not to say I will buy a V450D03. In fact, no vendor is selling the V450D01 in Hong Kong. I think in general, it is best not to buy any RTF heli from any brand over the size of 200-300. You are risking your personal safety with factory workers who does not know anything about helis. I would rather buy a kit and pay extra to have it assembled by a professional.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:46 AM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
284 Posts
I've been off the Internet for a while since my wonderful Wife while cleaning managed to turn off my cable modem. More on that some other time, besides it is off topic. So here is what I really wanted to say about the 6 axis gyro.

I know on my TX I can change the gyro & if I put it below 50% it will then become a standard non-heading hold gyro. I will test this out today & give you the results.

This is on a Devo 10 with a RX2703H-D I don't know if it works on the two other TX's Walkera is selling for the 450.




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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I also wish there was a 6 axis off switch. 3 axis gyro is enough unless you are trying to fly search and rescue...
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 09:55 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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@iflyhelis, turning off the heading hold and turning off the 6 axis gyro are different things. It sounds like you can fly in rate mode tail with the new RX from what you've said but it still has this acceleration compensation which prevents the hovering heli from wandering if not instructed to. Turning rate mode on or off, I doubt, is going to have any effect on the acceleration compensation.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 10:46 AM
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IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I own a V120D02S and Master CP with 6 axis gyro that cannot be turned off. There is no issue of them behaving like the 6 axis gyro of the Genius. For a start, you can fly 3D with them but not with the Genius. In fact, I do not feel that much difference in the V120D02S except that it is more stable. I am now able to fly simple continuous pattern type 3D which I think the 6 axis gyro did help. On the Master CP, it seems that the corrective action of the 6 axis gyro is more apparent but I haven't tried to turn it down. After trying the 6 axis on the V120D02S, I do not have any reservations on buying a heli with a 6 axis gyro again. However, it is not a major selling point for me either.

This is not to say I will buy a V450D03. In fact, no vendor is selling the V450D01 in Hong Kong. I think in general, it is best not to buy any RTF heli from any brand over the size of 200-300. You are risking your personal safety with factory workers who does not know anything about helis. I would rather buy a kit and pay extra to have it assembled by a professional.

Honestly, sometimes i feel like we are saying the same thing. Just in a different language. Or perhaps just worded very differently. I know i can become very impassioned about the way i feel about things. I am aware that the 6 axis systems will perform 3D. My concern is how much correction will be going on when you attempt a tick tock or hurricane type maneuver. where the helicopter has to be in a constant banked in position. Or full tilted forward, fast forward flight. I just feel like you would have to be holding pressure on the stick more often to counteract the 6 axis?

I guess my real gripe is that Walkera wants to call these "entry level" helicopters and stick a 6 axis system in them. Which might be fine for the v120 sizes. Targeting new comers to the hobby. But still call them "3d helicopers". Which to me is an oxymoron in the first place. But marketing is marketing, i suppose. I just feel like the poor soul that learns on a 6 axis might have trouble acclimating over to the professional grade 3 axis like a beastX or better. Or even the 2702V gyro for that matter, At least until everyone else starts using 6 axis too, which i doubt is going to happen. I think some other more reputable brands have experimented with accelerometers in their gyro before and didn't meet a warm welcome either. If BeastX endorses and goes 6 axis on EVERY SINGLE ONE of their RX/gyro systems. Well then, i would have to believe that that is the direction the hobby is going in. But honestly, i really believe if they did that, it would push even BeastX out of the market and out of business. At least at the current juncture.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 11:34 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Honestly, sometimes i feel like we are saying the same thing. Just in a different language. Or perhaps just worded very differently. I know i can become very impassioned about the way i feel about things. I am aware that the 6 axis systems will perform 3D. My concern is how much correction will be going on when you attempt a tick tock or hurricane type maneuver. where the helicopter has to be in a constant banked in position. Or full tilted forward, fast forward flight. I just feel like you would have to be holding pressure on the stick more often to counteract the 6 axis?

I guess my real gripe is that Walkera wants to call these "entry level" helicopters and stick a 6 axis system in them. Which might be fine for the v120 sizes. Targeting new comers to the hobby. But still call them "3d helicopers". Which to me is an oxymoron in the first place. But marketing is marketing, i suppose. I just feel like the poor soul that learns on a 6 axis might have trouble acclimating over to the professional grade 3 axis like a beastX or better. Or even the 2702V gyro for that matter, At least until everyone else starts using 6 axis too, which i doubt is going to happen. I think some other more reputable brands have experimented with accelerometers in their gyro before and didn't meet a warm welcome either. If BeastX endorses and goes 6 axis on EVERY SINGLE ONE of their RX/gyro systems. Well then, i would have to believe that that is the direction the hobby is going in. But honestly, i really believe if they did that, it would push even BeastX out of the market and out of business. At least at the current juncture.
It is just one thing you have to try one to appreciate what it is like. My problem is that I don't have a working V120D02S with a 3 axis gyro to compare with side by side. But I have flown 800 flights with the old 3 axis gyro and I just could feel any difference. If you let go of the controls, If it is banked, it remains banked. I suspect the correction is minute and only happens near center stick.
I am not sure whether it is really that much more stable either. What I can say is that I am doing more stuff with it than before, especially continuous 3D pattern like flying.

As far as the Master CP is concerned, it is much more noticeable. In fact the heli will stop unless you put in some down elevator through the turn. At the same time flips are much faster than the V120D02S despite having less power. So the 6 axis gyro in the Master CP appears to be quite different to than in the V120D02S. Of course, it best to see how others fare with the V450D03 first.

I had the 4F200 as well and it was a disaster that I gave up after 25 flights. I found that the spares were actually much more expensive than a Trex 250.

Walkera is not the first with a 6 axis gyro. Skookum has one with their SK720 FBL system. However, it is much more sophisticated and configurable in there. I think it is definitely possible that Align or BeastX may incorporate one in future.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 01:16 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
It is just one thing you have to try one to appreciate what it is like. My problem is that I don't have a working V120D02S with a 3 axis gyro to compare with side by side. But I have flown 800 flights with the old 3 axis gyro and I just could feel any difference. If you let go of the controls, If it is banked, it remains banked. I suspect the correction is minute and only happens near center stick.
I am not sure whether it is really that much more stable either. What I can say is that I am doing more stuff with it than before, especially continuous 3D pattern like flying.

As far as the Master CP is concerned, it is much more noticeable. In fact the heli will stop unless you put in some down elevator through the turn. At the same time flips are much faster than the V120D02S despite having less power. So the 6 axis gyro in the Master CP appears to be quite different to than in the V120D02S. Of course, it best to see how others fare with the V450D03 first.

I had the 4F200 as well and it was a disaster that I gave up after 25 flights. I found that the spares were actually much more expensive than a Trex 250.

Walkera is not the first with a 6 axis gyro. Skookum has one with their SK720 FBL system. However, it is much more sophisticated and configurable in there. I think it is definitely possible that Align or BeastX may incorporate one in future.
I too agree that Align or BeastX or anyone else might incorporate ONE line of their gyro systems or rx/gyro systems with the 6 axis system. Implemented in specific helicopters. And Sookum... come on, that is not going to be even the same as this I wouldn't have any doubt that you can turn the accelerometers off in a Sookum either. So yeah. Maybe if i wasn't trying to a bigger X5 or something along those line and already stuck buying that expensive TX / RX combo. I might eventually get back to the Walkera 120s again and try the 6 axis with devo 10. But i can't waste the money on the devo stuff right now when i have other goals in mind. Maybe at another juncture in my path.


Anyway, i ran one of the packs that had failed on me twice and has also ran fine in between as well. It's my #4 pack just for identification. So, hover in the drive way using the CopterX motor, being the only change since last time. It flew 5 minutes no problem. Seemed to have decent power with 13T pinion too. However the CopterX motor was fairly hot after the 5 minute flight.

Clearprop, do you experiance a very warm motor also? i'd bet it's at least 110(f) or so. Around hot tub temperatures. Maybe a bit more.

It felt good though. Nice and stable and pitch was responsive with the align blades. my cheap FRP "Testing" blades will arrive today i think. So i will give it a flight and hope for the best. I just don't understand how the motor can be bad in such a random way. But who knows.

oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I went to replace my lost pitch linkage and found, that particular pack of linkages had much shorter pitch bars than the one left on the helicopter. I opened another pack, those were correct and long enough. very strange. Walkera is nothing, if not inconsistent with their parts.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 03:09 PM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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I suspect why there is so much variation in opinion about the 6 axis V120D02S is due to differences in flying style. A member who is familiar with the SK 720 thinks that the 6 axis gyro of the V120D02S is active around the center of the stick. That is why you may not feel much difference flying 3D because big stick movements are involved. However if you are doing slow scale type flying, then the corrective action will be more keenly felt. Looking back now, I had to fly the Master CP much more slowly than the V120D02S because of the small field I was using. This could be why I felt much more interference from the gyro.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Joined Apr 2011
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@ IntegrityHndywrk
The CX motor gets warm, but not hot.
I fly in the morning, and my ambient temp is about 20 to 25 deg cooler than yours, so that would make a difference.

My pitchlinks measure 1.75 mm X 40 mm. I would like to use links a little longer.
Anyone know where I can get links of this diameter at say 44 mm in length?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 01:49 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
@ IntegrityHndywrk
The CX motor gets warm, but not hot.
I fly in the morning, and my ambient temp is about 20 to 25 deg cooler than yours, so that would make a difference.

My pitchlinks measure 1.75 mm X 40 mm. I would like to use links a little longer.
Anyone know where I can get links of this diameter at say 44 mm in length?
Thank you. I figured the temps were normal. Just wanted to see what kind of heat you are getting since it does have a cooling fan built in. The TA 804 didn't quite get this warm. I didn't get to fly a full pack today with the new motor because of a unforeseen mechanical malfunction! But because of the length of the flight before the malfunction, while using a battery i thought previously may have been going bad. I think it's very possible the issues were from my TA motor. Time will tell for sure. I'm going to call this nearly 5 minute flight a successful test flight with the new motor.

V450D01 - Windy light 3d flight - New OWB lets loose! (6 min 21 sec)


When i got home and inspected the OWB. Turns out that the OWB pulled loose from the hub. It was a cheap Outrage OWB, pressed into a walkera hub.



To make matters worse. When i installed the new walkera hub, with Align OWB. The OWB would not work! Turns out my OWB sleeve has reached the end of it's service life. The metal has worn so much that the bearing can no longer lock and the sleeve spins freely in both directions. Ironically it still locks in the Outrage OWB very well. Not that it does me any good . So i installed a new sleeve and everything is set for hopefully more good luck tomorrow after work.







So, about your pitch linkage. Apparently Walkera just cuts these things to whatever random length and ships them out the door, threaded. Who knows with them anymore. The one in the caliper in the picture below is the size currently mounted on my helicopter. The ones in the middle are a whole set of links. 3 cyclic and 2 pitch. The 2 pitch links i think are even shorter than 44mm. Something like 38mm or around that. Very strange.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 02:09 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,996 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
....

So, about your pitch linkage. Apparently Walkera just cuts these things to whatever random length and ships them out the door, threaded. Who knows with them anymore. The one in the caliper in the picture below is the size currently mounted on my helicopter. The ones in the middle are a whole set of links. 3 cyclic and 2 pitch. The 2 pitch links i think are even shorter than 44mm. Something like 38mm or around that. Very strange.
So they shortened the main shaft and forgot to give it a new part number? Can the Align boys help us out again once more ?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 02:16 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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And yeah - OWB... the cage on mine fails within about 3 flights. Seems like when it locks up it whacks all that momentum/inertia into the OWB cage and breaks it. I wish there was a heavy duty version available... maybe that's my ESC not starting the motor softly enough - it is on super soft setting though.
I have updated the firmware in my super brain 60A too and apparently, it shouldn't smoke my motor any more. That would be great if I can fly it with current logging. Long weekend this weekend - early to bed and then get up with the sun! Beat them damned guards to the flying site!
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 02:49 AM
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hi all, i've got the rx2702v rx on one tarot 450. does anyone here know how to make the tail hold? ie. whenever i rotate left or right, the tail doesn't stop immediately....it will drift off a bit then stop....is it to do with the pot settings?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 03:25 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
hi all, i've got the rx2702v rx on one tarot 450. does anyone here know how to make the tail hold? ie. whenever i rotate left or right, the tail doesn't stop immediately....it will drift off a bit then stop....is it to do with the pot settings?

Sounds like slop in the tail mechanics to me.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 03:35 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
hi all, i've got the rx2702v rx on one tarot 450. does anyone here know how to make the tail hold? ie. whenever i rotate left or right, the tail doesn't stop immediately....it will drift off a bit then stop....is it to do with the pot settings?
what setting do you have for your Gyro in your TX ? Have you tried increasing it? 75%/80%/85% ?
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 05:48 AM
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Joined Aug 2012
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I'm going by the Devo 10 info stating that AVCS can be shut down if you reduce the gyro gains to zero so they say.

I was going to test that yesterday, but while flying on my first battery that came with the heli (6) cycles on it. My alarm on the balance plug was beeping, and 15 seconds later it fell & hit the park bench I was landing on. Cracked canopy/horizontal stabilizer holder cracked.

I was lucky it landed on the bench then fell to the seat, I hit throttle hold but the motor was lightly trying to drive the blades. I looked at the voltage & it said total was 8 volts.

When I charged that battery two days ago it put in 2200 Mah. but the voltage peaked at 12.4 instead of 12.6 I thought that was odd. So, when I charged it yesterday it got up to 12.6 volts & 2200 Mah. But it did not shut down the charge in balance mode. I ended up canceling the charge & then discharged it for about 500 Mah. then re-started a balance charge again. Then it charged properly & shutoff the charger.

I am going to keep my eye on that battery!

So, I didn't get to try out reduced gyro gains, coming soon.




Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
@iflyhelis, turning off the heading hold and turning off the 6 axis gyro are different things. It sounds like you can fly in rate mode tail with the new RX from what you've said but it still has this acceleration compensation which prevents the hovering heli from wandering if not instructed to. Turning rate mode on or off, I doubt, is going to have any effect on the acceleration compensation.
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