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Old Aug 24, 2012, 05:03 AM
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United States, MA, Norton
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She saw me flying it the day after she delivered it & said is that what was in that package. She stopped & talked with me for awhile, she thought it was pretty interesting, so I think she will remember my address now.

I don't know how important waiting for complete init. of that heli is, I had the collective do its two hops but I put my mitts on it (the rotor head) just as it beeped.
I was having 2nd thoughts of unplugging the power & turn the transmitter off then on again. Then I said to myself, I'll probably see it act odd when I spool up, which didn't happen.

I was doing some right circles and when I was on the home stretch nose pointed at me, I felt it was going to pass by me a little to close for comfort, so I think I stepped backwards quickly. Next thing I know it hit the pavement still banked to the right in a nose down attitude. Man that happened quick! So I blame myself for that one.

So now the parts wait from Hong Kong, I ordered the day it happened, it just shipped yesterday, I reviewed my order & found out I didn't order any main gears, so now I placed a order for them yesterday, they haven't even shipped yet. I think I'll just go ride my Kawasaki ZRX1200R for a week to take my mind off of it.

Viking,

Maybe customs is holding yours up?

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Bummer, hopefully your mail man will remember where you live, mine seems to have forgotten.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 05:16 AM
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United States, MA, Norton
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That has got to suck, getting the wrong parts after waiting so long. I bet you are in a real good mood after that.

Good idea with the shared parts with your friends, that is what I call real friends!


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Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
You should see the time it takes to get parts to Canada! Typically 2 weeks, sometimes 3. Then you recieve the wrong parts!!! . Couple that with big shipping costs and sometimes duties as well. $$$$$

For that reason we stock lots of parts and my buddies all fly the same machines so that we can share parts. Its nice to hear that we aren't the only ones fixing broken parts while we are waiting for delieveries. We save all of our old skids, servos, main shafts, motors so that we can salvage parts when we are desperate.

I have the Turbo Ace motor from WOW in there now. What motors are others using? My stock Walkera motor was screwed up from the start. It was really loud, made the ESC really hot and smoked within the first few packs. The Turbo Ace has been way better but I'd love to have a few spares in my inventory. Maybe something a bit higher power so that I can manage the loads I'm lifting. Any suggestions of what else might work well in the V450D01 without drilling?
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
She saw me flying it the day after she delivered it & said is that what was in that package. She stopped & talked with me for awhile, she thought it was pretty interesting, so I think she will remember my address now.

I don't know how important waiting for complete init. of that heli is, I had the collective do its two hops but I put my mitts on it (the rotor head) just as it beeped.
I was having 2nd thoughts of unplugging the power & turn the transmitter off then on again. Then I said to myself, I'll probably see it act odd when I spool up, which didn't happen.

I was doing some right circles and when I was on the home stretch nose pointed at me, I felt it was going to pass by me a little to close for comfort, so I think I stepped backwards quickly. Next thing I know it hit the pavement still banked to the right in a nose down attitude. Man that happened quick! So I blame myself for that one.

So now the parts wait from Hong Kong, I ordered the day it happened, it just shipped yesterday, I reviewed my order & found out I didn't order any main gears, so now I placed a order for them yesterday, they haven't even shipped yet. I think I'll just go ride my Kawasaki ZRX1200R for a week to take my mind off of it.

Viking,

Maybe customs is holding yours up?
Really something your mail person had time to stop and talk with you, it's really nice. That's one thing that happens rarely here, no stopping, no talking and they have no doors on their mail trucks for a reason...so the can drive 50 miles an hour down the 25 mph street and just throw the crap out as they go.
Just kidding, they do a pretty good job in delivery here, like all things, it all depends on the person providing the service.
No chance on my order being held up in customs, it's coming from WOW in California and I live in Virginia, usually a two day delivery.
Fingers crossed for today, I don't have any more wires to shorten on the V450 to keep me occupied.

Viking
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 06:02 AM
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I did something like that once, I had a simulator model in my TX & I forgot to switch the model, everything was reversed especially the throttle on a nitro 30 when that fired up & the rotor started to spin, I held on for dear life. The helicopter started spinning until it hit my flight box, then the engine just buzzed off the main gear like a circular saw would do to a log! I finally was able to hit the engine kill switch, but it really scared the hell out of me!

Yeah, I know you have been going through Hell, I do feel bad for you, I would have been pissed off too. But you think you have found that the batteries may have been most of your problems? I wouldn't trust used batteries, you never know how they were charged or discharged, or if they took a big shock when impacting the ground.

You mentioned pressing the one-way bearing into the main gear. I have not even looked at that damaged gear yet other than knowing the teeth are stripped. So how much work is involved in changing out that gear & how difficult is it to press in the one-way bearing? On my gasser & two nitro helis it is simple to change out just a couple of bolts.

Also, you said something about main blade sizing. I would stick with the original size (335)? if you drop 10MM per blade you will lose 20MM of blade airfoil causing less lift, needing more main rotor-head speed to compensate for the loss of lift or more pitch. I use to use 720MM X 2 blades semi-symmetrical wood blades on my gasser but went to 680MM X 2 CF blades which were lighter. I lost a total of 80MM but the weight savings was worth it, & yes the RPM had to go up to keep it able to hover. I don't think that you can increase your motor speed & make up for the lift loss, you are at 100% already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Integrity,
Don't feel bad man! But seriously patients is a virtue. I'm not the most virtuous person in the world either.

But, if it makes you feel any better, or prevents you from doing the same stupid thing. On like my 8th flight with the v450, i wasn't using "fixed ID" so i bound the v450 up using the v120d02S's model data. It's a 1 servo setup, so the swash was totally jacked up... I spooled the heli up to full head speed and went for a typical 3 axis take off (snappy, not easy and slow like scale lift off). The heli went into the air about 3 feet high and tried to do a front flip straight into the ground. AH MEMORIES!! Nothing like your first major rebuild of a new helicopter to really ease your nerves the next time you fly! At least for me, after i know how to fix everything and i have already taken the shine off, so to speak. I don't feel as worried when i fly. But the 450 has been a real nerve killer for me because of the electronic and battery failures i was having. I never got to fully be comfortable flying it, even now! I'm just not getting used to it again, might be able to get comfortable now that it's not failing every other flight (literally)

Align main gears, Fiberglass main rotor blades, and pressing my own One way bearings into the main gear hubs were how i kept my crashes below $30 each. Just FYI, the fiberglass blades are not that much worse than CF. If your not doing extreme 3d you can't tell the difference i don't think. But they are a little less responsive and if i could afford it, or now that I am not having electric failures so often. I would always prefer the Align CF 325mm blades over the FG 325 blades. But the stock blades are actually decent, just over priced. Someone said the stock blades are rebranded "stealth" blades too. I can't verify that, but the stealth blades are not horrible either.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 06:07 AM
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The shipper must have insurance, I would contact them. Did you get a tracking # if not ask the shipper to track it & have him contact you.




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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
I agree.
...and my parts order didn't show again, this may be my first lost order being shipped USPS.

Viking
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 06:22 AM
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Funny, I thought she was going to complain that I was in the street & for me to get the Hell out her way. She didn't talk long, but she was really intrigued with it.

The 50 mph deliveries were funny, I almost believed that, I have been to Virginia before & have seen some of the people driving. My Son & I almost got killed in a crosswalk by a black woman in a Mercedes in Norfolk, & she stopped the car after the crosswalk & yelled at my Son & I, now that takes big balls! The word I got from the locals was, only cross at crosswalks that have signal lights at that corner. Never ever cross at a unlit crosswalk.

So, did you place your order online? You must be able to track it. I was able to track mine all the way from HK & into the USA.



Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Really something your mail person had time to stop and talk with you, it's really nice. That's one thing that happens rarely here, no stopping, no talking and they have no doors on their mail trucks for a reason...so the can drive 50 miles an hour down the 25 mph street and just throw the crap out as they go.
Just kidding, they do a pretty good job in delivery here, like all things, it all depends on the person providing the service.
No chance on my order being held up in customs, it's coming from WOW in California and I live in Virginia, usually a two day delivery.
Fingers crossed for today, I don't have any more wires to shorten on the V450 to keep me occupied.

Viking
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Funny, I thought she was going to complain that I was in the street & for me to get the Hell out her way. She didn't talk long, but she was really intrigued with it.

The 50 mph deliveries were funny, I almost believed that, I have been to Virginia before & have seen some of the people driving. My Son & I almost got killed in a crosswalk by a black woman in a Mercedes in Norfolk, & she stopped the car after the crosswalk & yelled at my Son & I, now that takes big balls! The word I got from the locals was, only cross at crosswalks that have signal lights at that corner. Never ever cross at a unlit crosswalk.

So, did you place your order online? You must be able to track it. I was able to track mine all the way from HK & into the USA.
On line as always and yes I did get the tracking number, followed it out of California and it dropped from sight which happens offten also, but it always shows on time. I'll track it down. Still have the M120 to fly.

Viking
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:43 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
You should see the time it takes to get parts to Canada! Typically 2 weeks, sometimes 3. Then you recieve the wrong parts!!! . Couple that with big shipping costs and sometimes duties as well. $$$$$

For that reason we stock lots of parts and my buddies all fly the same machines so that we can share parts. Its nice to hear that we aren't the only ones fixing broken parts while we are waiting for delieveries. We save all of our old skids, servos, main shafts, motors so that we can salvage parts when we are desperate.

I have the Turbo Ace motor from WOW in there now. What motors are others using? My stock Walkera motor was screwed up from the start. It was really loud, made the ESC really hot and smoked within the first few packs. The Turbo Ace has been way better but I'd love to have a few spares in my inventory. Maybe something a bit higher power so that I can manage the loads I'm lifting. Any suggestions of what else might work well in the V450D01 without drilling?
The Turbo Ace motor has a proclivity for burning out the stock ESC. I have gone though 3 myself. Just FYI... sudden loss of throttle power, land quickly. Especially if it's immediately after binding your TX and taking off. It could be just a random issue with this motor. But others have reported this as well. Yes, it is an excellent motor! Probably one of the best powered motors for the size and cost. But the stock ESC can suddenly actually catch electrical fire. I recently bought a $12 Hobbywing Skywalker ESC It does not come with the motor wire bullet plugs or the battery plug (naturally). But i am going to be testing this ESC with the Turbo Ace 804 motor. I just realized one other problem with the turbo ace motors, because i have 2 of them with the same problem. There is no support for them. No repair parts available from the only known supplier either. So i will be looking for a comparable motor. I think i'll be investigating scorpion and viper motors. we'll see though.

Here is what can be expected to eventually happen, mid flight usually, with all v450 walkera electronics, minus maybe the RX... Maybe.




This little guy here can cause your ESC to short out just by tie wrapping it too tightly. But if the ESC gets too hot the wire shielding melts and shorts out on something usually anyway because they didn't design the PCB so that the throttle leads were on the edge of the board. Instead they laied it right over the top of everything.



Just something to be aware of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
She saw me flying it the day after she delivered it & said is that what was in that package. She stopped & talked with me for awhile, she thought it was pretty interesting, so I think she will remember my address now.

I don't know how important waiting for complete init. of that heli is, I had the collective do its two hops but I put my mitts on it (the rotor head) just as it beeped.
I was having 2nd thoughts of unplugging the power & turn the transmitter off then on again. Then I said to myself, I'll probably see it act odd when I spool up, which didn't happen.

I was doing some right circles and when I was on the home stretch nose pointed at me, I felt it was going to pass by me a little to close for comfort, so I think I stepped backwards quickly. Next thing I know it hit the pavement still banked to the right in a nose down attitude. Man that happened quick! So I blame myself for that one.

So now the parts wait from Hong Kong, I ordered the day it happened, it just shipped yesterday, I reviewed my order & found out I didn't order any main gears, so now I placed a order for them yesterday, they haven't even shipped yet. I think I'll just go ride my Kawasaki ZRX1200R for a week to take my mind off of it.

Viking,

Maybe customs is holding yours up?
You can always swing by the LHS and pick up a 3 pack of align main gears.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 09:55 AM
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Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
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thanks so much... again. You guys are saving me lots of time and experimentation and probably helping to reduce my crash parts cost! I have found that most of the 325mm ones I have don't fit as tight in the blade holders as the OEM Walkera blades do. With FPV in the works, I worry about vibration. Oh well, I'll try it out and compare. I also worry about losing lift... but we will see about that too.

I think I'm going to try one of the Align motors. I have seen prettier ones with gold colors etc, but I never heard any compaints about Align gear. After reading about how the Ace Turbo seems to burn up ESCs I might have to get something on order sooner than later. Maybe I should have started with an Align 450?
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 12:27 PM
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If you think we have liability issues take a look at this thing.

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ging%20secrets
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
thanks so much... again. You guys are saving me lots of time and experimentation and probably helping to reduce my crash parts cost! I have found that most of the 325mm ones I have don't fit as tight in the blade holders as the OEM Walkera blades do. With FPV in the works, I worry about vibration. Oh well, I'll try it out and compare. I also worry about losing lift... but we will see about that too.

I think I'm going to try one of the Align motors. I have seen prettier ones with gold colors etc, but I never heard any compaints about Align gear. After reading about how the Ace Turbo seems to burn up ESCs I might have to get something on order sooner than later. Maybe I should have started with an Align 450?
Well, to be honest. The Turbo ace 804 is LISTED at 3950kv in comparison to the Align 450MX which is 3400kv. On top of that, i own 3 Turbo ace motors. The 215, 352 and 804. All of them seem to put out much more than their listed KV rating. Basically the Turbo ace 804 gets higher head speeds using a 11T pinion. So your torque (required for weight loading), in theory, will be much higher and still keep the head speed desired. Where as the 450MX motor will be running about a 13T pinion for the same head speed. I can't speak for the actual torque differences or head speed data because i have not used the 450MX. But on paper the TA 804 is a much more powerful motor with built in cooling fans too. But your right. The only thing i've ever heard anyone complain about with Align heli's is the new 3GX system. But even that is still better than a 2702V, i'm pretty sure. So you can't go wrong with that. But. Just FYI, clear prop knows his heli's very well too. He has been recommending that CopterX motor, which to my knowledge is only sold by the same people who sell the Turbo Ace motors. On paper that CopterX motor is 3400kv also. so for $15 it SAYS it will compete with the head speed of the Align motor. But one thing kv rating does not account for is the actual size of the motor and the amount of actual torque it's capable of.


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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
If you think we have liability issues take a look at this thing.

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ging%20secrets
ZOMG!! BACKORDER!!!!
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
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Parts are in!!

Parts showed up today, finished the build on my V450, proclaimed it airworthy and told my wife it was ready for flight.....she said to be sure and take a picture first.....what do you think she meant by that?

Viking
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 10:24 PM
They call me plan B
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I say get video! I hope to go flying in the morning.all helis need some love
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 05:03 AM
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Nice view of the wires, I wonder if we were to slip a piece of Teflon in there. It has high heat resistance & is a good insulator. But you would need to wrap it around each wire to prevent shorting between each wire. Better yet, we should buy a 60 or 80 Amp. ESC.

I thought about buying a Align gear set, but I am still waiting for my CF main blades to come in.

Have you ever heard of "KDE Direct" ? They make a couple of 450 Align main gear, they have two type one is a spiral gear & the other is a straight cut gear which is 150 tooth, the standard Align gear is 121 tooth. I think the 150 would lower your head speed drastically, although they sell a 15 tooth pinion so that might match up. I'll have to look at the gear ratio & see what it comes out to.

It figures out to 318 RPM faster using the 150 tooth main & a 15 tooth pinion that is at 35000 motor RPM which you would never get there unless you were at 0 degrees pitch. You would need to use a 14 tooth probably.

Supposedly this KDE Direct is having these gears made for them, supposed to be stronger material & self lubricating. But they are pricey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post

This little guy here can cause your ESC to short out just by tie wrapping it too tightly. But if the ESC gets too hot the wire shielding melts and shorts out on something usually anyway because they didn't design the PCB so that the throttle leads were on the edge of the board. Instead they laied it right over the top of everything.



Just something to be aware of.




You can always swing by the LHS and pick up a 3 pack of align main gears.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Nice view of the wires, I wonder if we were to slip a piece of Teflon in there. It has high heat resistance & is a good insulator. But you would need to wrap it around each wire to prevent shorting between each wire. Better yet, we should buy a 60 or 80 Amp. ESC.

I thought about buying a Align gear set, but I am still waiting for my CF main blades to come in.

Have you ever heard of "KDE Direct" ? They make a couple of 450 Align main gear, they have two type one is a spiral gear & the other is a straight cut gear which is 150 tooth, the standard Align gear is 121 tooth. I think the 150 would lower your head speed drastically, although they sell a 15 tooth pinion so that might match up. I'll have to look at the gear ratio & see what it comes out to.

It figures out to 318 RPM faster using the 150 tooth main & a 15 tooth pinion that is at 35000 motor RPM which you would never get there unless you were at 0 degrees pitch. You would need to use a 14 tooth probably.

Supposedly this KDE Direct is having these gears made for them, supposed to be stronger material & self lubricating. But they are pricey.
Align also makes 150T gears, the same as the V450's main gears. Align has the patent on the internal fan design of their main gears which helps keep the motor and ESC cooler. They also make a Helical gear which is 121T, like you said, and a 11T and 12T helical pinion to match. The pinions come in 2 different shaft sizes. I have heard of KDE Direct. It sounds like they wanted more head speeds or something from the helical system so they had their own made up. But i'm sure align did the math on theirs and it's probably reliable and readily available almost anywhere for spares. Cheap too, only like $7 for 3 gears. I don't know if i would want to buy specially made main gears as often as i replace them. Keep in mind too, if your going to use the TA 804 motor, it's about 20% faster than the Align motor so there will be a difference in the math there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Integriy,
Do you run a shear pin for the main gear in your D05?
I have a roll of copper wire that I cut and use as a shear pin on my M120 with the fine tooth main gear and it makes all the dirfferance in the world for preventing damage. It won't protect it completely in a really nasty crash but you will still be able to fly it. Minor crashes that shear the pin don't do any damage at all. The shear pin also saves the main shaft from getting bent and blades from being scrapped.

Vilikg
I just picked up some 0.32 aluminum stock and some 18 AWG picture frame wire, which is also aluminum to try for a sheer pin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
.....

Doesn't tell me the AWG of the copper wire, yes! I saw someone calculate 19 AWG, but they don't make 19 AWG in the U.S.of A.

If that was supposed to be a smart-alec remark in your response I'll say to you Thank-You. & forever not listen to you again.

But if that was some sort of short-cut code that I really didn't understand, I forgive you & please let me know what it means?
Just so you understand. AWG is actually a measurement. So while they may not make 19 AWG copper solid conductor in the USA. That does not mean that it does not exist. It's just skipped over in wire sizes. So that is kind of one of the things I mean about finding the right size to fit. Smaller would be better anyway i think because having some play in the pin might allow for some momentum to build in the slop and make the sheer pin break or cut clean easier on impact. But maybe not. Yesterday i had my paperclip sheer pin just fall out while i was flying shortly after doing a left roll. Ironic huh? All of a sudden the heli had no power and floated slowly down and landed.
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