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Old Aug 23, 2012, 04:47 AM
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I recently had to change my tail shaft out. I noticed a significant amount of wear on the tail gear. MAN! what cheap metal they made this out of. I know it's supposed to be soft for the rubber belt. But i just installed the old one a month or 2 ago or something. It was after one of those crashes i was having from the battery plug blackouts. I suppose it does get used quite a bit. But this kind of wear seems a bit much.

[/QUOTE]

Integrity,
What did the belt look like and could you detect any slip?
I certainly don't know with the low flight time on my 450 but do you think we are seeing the belt making the grear "comfortable" for the belt teeth?
Anotherwords is the belt wearing down the profile of the gear teeth to match it's own tooth pattern for a better fit.
Curious if once this wear occurs, would it keep going or slow down, hopefully once my parts show up and I can get back in the air and generate some serious flight time as you have, I can wear mine down and see if it will slow or stop once the tooth patterns match between the belt and gear.
Again just curious. Could be just as we suspect, a soft metal.

Viking
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Actually i was referring to the shooting projectiles like paint balls and airsoft weapons. RC weapons applications could become an issue, if there are not already some kind of laws. The AMA considers it Illegal or at the very least against their safety guidelines. Thats why i said you should check. Thats all i was trying to say. My 1st hobby is actually paint ball believe it or not. I've played woods and speed ball for a while. But no one in my area wants to play anymore. They are all scared i think. I don't know. But now i took up helicopters because the nearest place to go play at an establishment is over an hour away. It was a good fun though, while the paint ball thing lasted.

But as for the dropping and things like that. I don't think that would be an issue if they are fairly nerf like. I think i would consider eggs, for the most part, non hazardish lol. That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

For your convenience, the AMA safety code:




With that in mind. It seems many people have done the airsoft thing before.



From what i know if it. Sabothane is your best friend for dampening vibration on your camera. You might want to look into that. But i don't know the mounting application of your camera. But 3M mounting tape is foam tape that is similar to sabothane. Just a little stiffer and probably not as vibe absorbent. But using a few layers of good mounting tape will dampen the vibes too. The 3m Extreme mounting tape boasts a 10 lbs. secured hold weight. So your camera, after the tape bonds for a few hours, is going to be affixed rather surprisingly tight.
Quote:
I use this stuff to secure my RX to the boom and on a good day i MIGHT be able to pry the RX off the shelf by hand. But most of the time i have to pry it up with a big flat head or scraper tool. It seriously holds that tight with 2 layers.
Good luck, and keep at it! I'm sure your not the only one doing these kinds of projects. I once saw a scale model CH-149 Cormorant with a working wench and drop rope. That was pretty cool. It even had a basket and attachments for the rope. Pretty cool.
Integrity,
I have found that when trying to remove your RX or whatever from the 3M tape it's easiest to use the shaft of a tiny scerw driver (with a shaft diameter about the size of a pencil lead). You won't be poking at it with the screw driver tip but instead lay the shaft of the screw driver at one end of the RX, gently push into the faying surface with the shaft between the RX and tape and roll the screw driver so that the rolling or the spin direction of the shaft, at the top where it meets the RX, has a tendancy to pull the tape down from the reciever. As you roll the screw driver, it will walk along pulling the tape cleanly from the RX, nothing left behind. Gently be pulling up un the RX during this process to keep seperation or it will just stick itself back down behind the screw driver as it rolls along. Once the RX is removed you can repeat the process on the tape left on the airframe mount for a clean removal.
Also if you angle the screw driver ever so slightly as you roll, the tip of the screw driver won't leave any marks (gouges) in the RX.
It works well, you have to try it.

Viking
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I use the Sabothene for gyro and for camera mounts. I find that getting the heli running really smooth is the best way to get steady videos. After many rebuilds, I can smooth out a V450D01 in less than an hour.

On the legal front, I'm flying on my own property and we aren't members of any groups or clubs. I see lots of great suggestions on the list and most are common sense, but I doubt there is anyone here in Canada that is going to impose or enforce rules on me while flying on my property. Of course we have no intention of damaging anything or hurting anyone. We are adults and assume the risks of playing with our silly toys.

I really don't like point (i), honestly, we are feeling the need to attach roman candles to our skids and capture the action on video, shooting at a target of course... on my property.... with all the appropriate safety considerations in place.
Love to see the video
Sounds like great fun to me...all done with the utmost safety of course, well thought out.

Viking
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Meh, It's not flying 100% yet. I probably have to adjust some swashmix settings or something. But Heli Biggie's previous question about his front flips being faster than back flips popped in my mind today when i went from inverted flight and front flipped back to upright. It was incredibly more powerful in that direction then when i do the back flip back to upright. I wonder why that is? It seems the Savox/Align servos have a proclivity for front flip speed. Or is it perhaps the forward momentum that helps propel the front flips? This is my theory. Perhaps you would know more about the physics behind it Viking? Or anyone else? I could adjust my travel with the TX but I'd prefer to self correct this behavior by countering it manually. I'd rather know the reasons behind it. It seems unlikely that the servos travel faster in one direction than the other.

Pretty good flights today anyway despite all the trash i talked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9oJy...ature=youtu.be
As far as flip speed between forward and backward being different, I can only guess.
The rotor shouldn't know any difference in the dirrection of the flip that it is trying to move in, given identical control inputs, so if we were only flying the head, it should flip any dirrection equally as fast.
So the difference in our case may be the "load or mass" we are trying to move with the flip and the "arm" of that mass.
Also the tail rotor rotational torque (not the tail blade angle anti torque needed to counter the main rotor, but that blade angle would influence the rotational torque required to spin the tail rotor) is trying to push the nose down also. In a hover the rotational torque needed to spin the tail rotor would be high creating a greater downward push to the nose. Lay the fuselage on it's side with the tail rotor facing up like a main rotor and you will see the influence it will have on the fuselage when being spun, as you can see, the torque (opposite the dirrection of rotation) of the tail rotor is now trying to spin the fuselage to the right (which would be down with the fuselage upright...hummm.
Someone else with a bigger brain than mine will have to explain it though, I couldn't even get the dip swiches set correctly on my RX.
Again...just me trying think it through, don't know how accurate it is.

Viking
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 05:58 AM
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United States, MA, Norton
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Well I finally crashed on the tenth flight, when I turned on the heli I didn't wait for the beep. That may have helped it, but mainly I was to blame for the crash.

Lost CF blades/main gear/one ball link/canopy.

Now to wait for parts.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Well I finally crashed on the tenth flight, when I turned on the heli I didn't wait for the beep. That may have helped it, but mainly I was to blame for the crash.

Lost CF blades/main gear/one ball link/canopy.

Now to wait for parts.
Bummer, hopefully your mail man will remember where you live, mine seems to have forgotten.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 11:29 AM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
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Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
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You should see the time it takes to get parts to Canada! Typically 2 weeks, sometimes 3. Then you recieve the wrong parts!!! . Couple that with big shipping costs and sometimes duties as well. $$$$$

For that reason we stock lots of parts and my buddies all fly the same machines so that we can share parts. Its nice to hear that we aren't the only ones fixing broken parts while we are waiting for delieveries. We save all of our old skids, servos, main shafts, motors so that we can salvage parts when we are desperate.

I have the Turbo Ace motor from WOW in there now. What motors are others using? My stock Walkera motor was screwed up from the start. It was really loud, made the ESC really hot and smoked within the first few packs. The Turbo Ace has been way better but I'd love to have a few spares in my inventory. Maybe something a bit higher power so that I can manage the loads I'm lifting. Any suggestions of what else might work well in the V450D01 without drilling?
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
You should see the time it takes to get parts to Canada! Typically 2 weeks, sometimes 3. Then you recieve the wrong parts!!! . Couple that with big shipping costs and sometimes duties as well. $$$$$

For that reason we stock lots of parts and my buddies all fly the same machines so that we can share parts. Its nice to hear that we aren't the only ones fixing broken parts while we are waiting for delieveries. We save all of our old skids, servos, main shafts, motors so that we can salvage parts when we are desperate.

I have the Turbo Ace motor from WOW in there now. What motors are others using? My stock Walkera motor was screwed up from the start. It was really loud, made the ESC really hot and smoked within the first few packs. The Turbo Ace has been way better but I'd love to have a few spares in my inventory. Maybe something a bit higher power so that I can manage the loads I'm lifting. Any suggestions of what else might work well in the V450D01 without drilling?
I have been using a Copterex motor for about 2 months. It runs pretty cool, and has adequate power. Draws about 8 to 10 amps. It has a 3.17 shaft diameter so there are lots of pinions out there that will fit.
I have been using it with the stock ESC with no problems.
WOW normally stocks it so you won't have to wait long for delivery.
http://www.wowhobbies.com/copterxcx2...icopter-2.aspx

The Turnigy 2215 is an old standard, works well, very efficient, and runs very cool. You have to order it from HK. It also has a 3.17 shaft.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9021
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 02:07 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
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Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
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Thank you for that. Do we know what brand the Turbo Ace 804 actually is? I'm thinking this is just WOW's name for it. Do we think the Align stock motors are as good or better? Everytime I add Align parts my bird seems to get more reliable. That Turnigy motor look much like my Turbo Ace motor but 1/2 as much $$$ as Wow's.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 03:07 PM
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I have the align 450mx motor , same as heli711! Its been a dream and been thru a bad cement crash .
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
Thank you for that. Do we know what brand the Turbo Ace 804 actually is? I'm thinking this is just WOW's name for it. Do we think the Align stock motors are as good or better? Everytime I add Align parts my bird seems to get more reliable. That Turnigy motor look much like my Turbo Ace motor but 1/2 as much $$$ as Wow's.
I never saw any post saying what brand the Turbo Ace motors are. Maybe someone out there reading this knows.
I have 2 Trex 450's with Align motors. They are very good, low heat, and good power, and the ESC's run cool. They are a bit pricey at $50 a pop.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 08:59 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
I recently had to change my tail shaft out. I noticed a significant amount of wear on the tail gear. MAN! what cheap metal they made this out of. I know it's supposed to be soft for the rubber belt. But i just installed the old one a month or 2 ago or something. It was after one of those crashes i was having from the battery plug blackouts. I suppose it does get used quite a bit. But this kind of wear seems a bit much.

Integrity,
What did the belt look like and could you detect any slip?
I certainly don't know with the low flight time on my 450 but do you think we are seeing the belt making the grear "comfortable" for the belt teeth?
Anotherwords is the belt wearing down the profile of the gear teeth to match it's own tooth pattern for a better fit.
Curious if once this wear occurs, would it keep going or slow down, hopefully once my parts show up and I can get back in the air and generate some serious flight time as you have, I can wear mine down and see if it will slow or stop once the tooth patterns match between the belt and gear.
Again just curious. Could be just as we suspect, a soft metal.

Viking[/QUOTE]

Well, to be honest some of my belts that ran over that gear were pretty thrashed from crashes. So the worn belts could have done that too, maybe. But it seems to be just wear on the edges of the square teeth, making them kind of round. The belt teeth seem to pretty much stay the same, but if you think about it. there is no way for a square toothed rubber belt to ALWAYS sync into the gear teeth. Some movement and friction has to be had on the edges of the square. I think it really is basically what your saying, if I'm interpreting it correctly. General wear and tear, IMO. Don't forget though, i'll burn 3-5 packs a day on the 450, when it was flying good before the new ESC and Savox servos, and again right now. Provided it's not too hot outside, and the sun stays out long enough for me after work. So it definitely gets used now. I am blessed to have so many flying sites right near my house. I wish i could share that wealth with all of my fellow hobby enthusiasts! But unfortunately, I cant fax large bodies of land

BTW, i've pretty much determined that almost all of my problems with this helicopter, AFTER getting the Hobbywing ESC, and some crashes shortly before, derived from the batteries that i received with it when i bought it used. I tossed all my old batteries and only use new ones and now i can go though just about any of the old timing settings on the ESC and other things that "I Thought" were the actual issue causing failures. No failures in as many as 10-15 flights now!!! I'M SO HAPPY! So now i'm working on getting the head speed back to max. I need a good tach so bad. Needs to handle 5 bladed rotor though. Laser might be the only way to go. So, mine was similar to your issue, in that I knew better, but i was not seeing the issue right before my eyes. In fact i was sooo sure that it was not the batteries i just plain refused to believe it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Well I finally crashed on the tenth flight, when I turned on the heli I didn't wait for the beep. That may have helped it, but mainly I was to blame for the crash.

Lost CF blades/main gear/one ball link/canopy.

Now to wait for parts.

Don't feel bad man! But seriously patients is a virtue. I'm not the most virtuous person in the world either.

But, if it makes you feel any better, or prevents you from doing the same stupid thing. On like my 8th flight with the v450, i wasn't using "fixed ID" so i bound the v450 up using the v120d02S's model data. It's a 1 servo setup, so the swash was totally jacked up... I spooled the heli up to full head speed and went for a typical 3 axis take off (snappy, not easy and slow like scale lift off). The heli went into the air about 3 feet high and tried to do a front flip straight into the ground. AH MEMORIES!! Nothing like your first major rebuild of a new helicopter to really ease your nerves the next time you fly! At least for me, after i know how to fix everything and i have already taken the shine off, so to speak. I don't feel as worried when i fly. But the 450 has been a real nerve killer for me because of the electronic and battery failures i was having. I never got to fully be comfortable flying it, even now! I'm just not getting used to it again, might be able to get comfortable now that it's not failing every other flight (literally)

Align main gears, Fiberglass main rotor blades, and pressing my own One way bearings into the main gear hubs were how i kept my crashes below $30 each. Just FYI, the fiberglass blades are not that much worse than CF. If your not doing extreme 3d you can't tell the difference i don't think. But they are a little less responsive and if i could afford it, or now that I am not having electric failures so often. I would always prefer the Align CF 325mm blades over the FG 325 blades. But the stock blades are actually decent, just over priced. Someone said the stock blades are rebranded "stealth" blades too. I can't verify that, but the stealth blades are not horrible either.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 10:42 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
208 Posts
I wonder if anyone can tell me about the stock Walkera V450D01 blades which measure 335mm and if others are flying with the standard 325mm blades. Is this an issue? Can we expect less performance?

I have been using mostly 335mm blades. Should I notice issues by using the slightly shorter blades?
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 01:09 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I wonder if anyone can tell me about the stock Walkera V450D01 blades which measure 335mm and if others are flying with the standard 325mm blades. Is this an issue? Can we expect less performance?

I have been using mostly 335mm blades. Should I notice issues by using the slightly shorter blades?
Viking may know a little more of the actual mechanics and actual nomenclature for this stuff. Where as i am self learned and experienced. But i have used both and they both perform very much alike for normal flight. In 3d there may be slight differences. The longer blades have increased the size of the "rotor disk". By having longer blades and a larger disc the heli may flip a little slower because of the added centrifugal force. Though with good servos, i don't think this is much of an issue. Centrifugal force could be added by the length of the blades, also depending on the weight added, could be a multiplying factor in there somewhere. In general the width of the blades will increase the amount of air moving through the rotor. Where as the length will also, but only about 1/8 the amount of adding a few mms of width to the blades.

So basically, its which ever you prefer. The longer blades may be a little bit more stable in flight and feel a little heavier for moves that you want to throw your rotor weight around, like loops. The shorter blades will probably be more responsive and flip the heli around faster and be more agile. Possibly needing you to be more in control of your heli because it will move a little quicker in the banking and flipping dept. The reality is you probably won't be able to tell much difference.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Viking may know a little more of the actual mechanics and actual nomenclature for this stuff. Where as i am self learned and experienced. But i have used both and they both perform very much alike for normal flight. In 3d there may be slight differences. The longer blades have increased the size of the "rotor disk". By having longer blades and a larger disc the heli may flip a little slower because of the added centrifugal force. Though with good servos, i don't think this is much of an issue. Centrifugal force could be added by the length of the blades, also depending on the weight added, could be a multiplying factor in there somewhere. In general the width of the blades will increase the amount of air moving through the rotor. Where as the length will also, but only about 1/8 the amount of adding a few mms of width to the blades.

So basically, its which ever you prefer. The longer blades may be a little bit more stable in flight and feel a little heavier for moves that you want to throw your rotor weight around, like loops. The shorter blades will probably be more responsive and flip the heli around faster and be more agile. Possibly needing you to be more in control of your heli because it will move a little quicker in the banking and flipping dept. The reality is you probably won't be able to tell much difference.
I agree.
...and my parts order didn't show again, this may be my first lost order being shipped USPS.

Viking
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