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Old Aug 21, 2012, 11:46 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Fyi. I love my trex 600! The best part was being able to us the 2801 tx and buy a 2801 rx. Its been perfect! My secret is to have dustin at heli-heli.com build it! Shhhhh

But if u want to stay with the 450 size i hear good things about the blade 450!
I think i finally have the 450 flying well. Time will tell. I just can't get into the eflite heli. I do however want to get the AR7200BX RX/gyro unit with a new TX. But for now the 450 will have to do. I've been looking at Gaui and SAB for a while now. Probably since before i got my v450. I will probably eventually get a X5 or something. But if the 450 stays flying good for now, it will due.


Just a quick side note. Since the 450 has been flying well for me now i went ahead and did Heliflyer711's rudder control rod mod. After one of the crashes i smashed up the plastic sleeve so i went ahead and did his mod. But the middle section under the horizontal stabilizer kept breaking in half and would allow the rod to flex or move around under a load. I realized after replacing it a few times that the tail slider was binding just slightly, which probably didn't help. I fixed the binding by swabbing the gunk off the tail shaft. I replaced the tubing piece that was breaking too. I used a brass bushing. I have some brass tube sock but it was a little big to fit in the clip under the fin. But the brass bushings found inside the 4f200's rudder control rocker arm was a perfect fit. The others are still the plastic tubing. I just hope the CA holds it. I don't know if any of you guys might have been having the same issue with this mod, but i assume it's probably from the gunk and sand binding up my tail slider.

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Old Aug 22, 2012, 12:15 AM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
200 Posts
Can anyone give me some general suggestions of what pitch and throttle curve changes I might make to help compensate for the extra weight I'm loading on my V450D01 with my FPV gear?

I guess I'm going to aim for higher head speed? So less pitch until I get to RPM? I find it wants to drop like a rock whenever I back off on the throttle.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 12:22 AM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
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Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
200 Posts
Anyone built anything like this?

I posted it earlier, hoping for comments or suggestions.... has anyone else built long-line or water droppers for their V450D.... or am I the only nut that thinks its cool to drop stuff?
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
Can anyone give me some general suggestions of what pitch and throttle curve changes I might make to help compensate for the extra weight I'm loading on my V450D01 with my FPV gear?

I guess I'm going to aim for higher head speed? So less pitch until I get to RPM? I find it wants to drop like a rock whenever I back off on the throttle.
I don't fly with that much weight. But you probably want to get into stunt mode as soon as possible and learn to control the altitude and everything using collective pitch instead of throttle control. You might want to raise your throttle in normal mode too, that might help compensate for some weight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I posted it earlier, hoping for comments or suggestions.... has anyone else built long-line or water droppers for their V450D.... or am I the only nut that thinks its cool to drop stuff?
Yeah, i'm afraid i don't quite get it. Are you a fire fighter or something? I don't know. But if you enjoy it, you should keep at it. I don't know if anyone else has done this kind of rig. But i'm sure if you keep posting about it others will follow.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 03:30 AM
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Water Dropper

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I posted it earlier, hoping for comments or suggestions.... has anyone else built long-line or water droppers for their V450D.... or am I the only nut that thinks its cool to drop stuff?

Brad,
I was Intrigued with your cargo hook, there's more fun to be had with these little machines than just flying 3D, and after participating in these forums for a while now I find most everyone is focused on that aspect including myself, but I would also like to sit on my portico after a storm and pick up and remove small branches from my yard with an electronic long line claw with the 450, yes I can get that lazy, but it would be challenging and entertaining and who eles do you know picks up sticks from thier yard with a helicopter and long line.
As far as thinking of a good throttle curve and pitch curve for you, my opinion is for you to install an ESC with a governor feature (which is very different than just setting a flat line throttle with your TX) to control your head speed, that would allow you to have perfect rotor speed, near max RPM, for your load no matter what the collective setting, you should find it would fly very smoothly.
If you have seen my posts you know I like to build also, a mind is a terrible thing, so don't think your the only crazy out there, when I saw your post, I wanted to comment then but time prevented me from doing so.
Keep dreaming...it's what it's all about.
Do you have any flying video to post form your Sony camera install? Someone a while back wondered if mounting his cell phone on his ship with it in video mode would work...yup, worked really good!
Oh, and great job on your hook.
My parts show up today to get me back in the air, but I think it will be a long time before I can forget what created my roll overs on take off...like I said...the mind is a terrible thing.

Viking
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 10:41 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Brad,
I was Intrigued with your cargo hook, there's more fun to be had with these little machines than just flying 3D, and after participating in these forums for a while now I find most everyone is focused on that aspect including myself, but I would also like to sit on my portico after a storm and pick up and remove small branches from my yard with an electronic long line claw with the 450, yes I can get that lazy, but it would be challenging and entertaining and who eles do you know picks up sticks from thier yard with a helicopter and long line.
As far as thinking of a good throttle curve and pitch curve for you, my opinion is for you to install an ESC with a governor feature (which is very different than just setting a flat line throttle with your TX) to control your head speed, that would allow you to have perfect rotor speed, near max RPM, for your load no matter what the collective setting, you should find it would fly very smoothly.
If you have seen my posts you know I like to build also, a mind is a terrible thing, so don't think your the only crazy out there, when I saw your post, I wanted to comment then but time prevented me from doing so.
Keep dreaming...it's what it's all about.
Do you have any flying video to post form your Sony camera install? Someone a while back wondered if mounting his cell phone on his ship with it in video mode would work...yup, worked really good!
Oh, and great job on your hook.
My parts show up today to get me back in the air, but I think it will be a long time before I can forget what created my roll overs on take off...like I said...the mind is a terrible thing.

Viking
Something told me you would be all over this one Viking! Good luck with that roll over thing. It really is a shame we are all trapped inside the prison of our own minds.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 11:45 AM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
200 Posts
Good idea on the governor feature. I have an ESC with that feature I could try. That makes good sense to me. I do fly some in 3D mode but for long-lining, I find it easier to make fine height adjustments in 2D.

I agree, its about having fun and I'm learning my 3D on my Genius CP which takes much more abuse in a crash. I haven't had my V450 inverted yet, but after I master it on my mini-CP, I'll be trying that.

Like dropping stuff, I'm also really hot on FPV. I'm still dealing with some conducted EMC isses as I'm sharing my flying battery with my FPV systems. I have the parts on order to fix that. You might notice that I have done my installs so that I can just change canopies and eliminate all my FPV stuff and return to sport flying with a bare machine.. I will post some vids of my FPV flights even though its pretty obvious I need more practice.

If people think I'm nuts with my long-line hook, I should probably post pictures of my egg dropper and paintball dispenser!
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 11:56 AM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
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Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
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Oh, and if people thought that was bit over the top... we have plans to attach one of those small, fully automatic Air-Soft guns (small plastic BBs) for attacks in FPV mode. I will be sure to post videos! I do find that most forums are dedicated to making the very best 3D machine and less about making silly modifications. It might have to do with how much beer Canadians drink!
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 12:22 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
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Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
200 Posts
Larger camera on my V450

This is before I bought my mini Sony cameras. I attached my home camera and just flew with it in video mode. It works great, no EMC issues and great video quality but too heavy for nimble flight. My new 700 line Sony is tiny and adds very little weight, even with the video TX. But playing with this camera is what lured me into FPV. Also, if I crash, I'll be wrecking a $35 camera, not a $200 one! The camera is a Sony DCS-T90 and it weighs 151 grams which is lots!
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 04:26 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
Good idea on the governor feature. I have an ESC with that feature I could try. That makes good sense to me. I do fly some in 3D mode but for long-lining, I find it easier to make fine height adjustments in 2D.

I agree, its about having fun and I'm learning my 3D on my Genius CP which takes much more abuse in a crash. I haven't had my V450 inverted yet, but after I master it on my mini-CP, I'll be trying that.

Like dropping stuff, I'm also really hot on FPV. I'm still dealing with some conducted EMC isses as I'm sharing my flying battery with my FPV systems. I have the parts on order to fix that. You might notice that I have done my installs so that I can just change canopies and eliminate all my FPV stuff and return to sport flying with a bare machine.. I will post some vids of my FPV flights even though its pretty obvious I need more practice.

If people think I'm nuts with my long-line hook, I should probably post pictures of my egg dropper and paintball dispenser!
I did want to mention the dangers to you about your choise in mounting position for your canopy camera. While it probably has a great prospective and everything. If you happen to crash your going to loose that sucker, as i'm sure you may or may not have already assumed. I have a few dents in the side of my RX from crashing and blade strikes directly on it. So the camera is right in the path of the blades. I would prefer it be under the battery or under the skids in my own preference. Personally under the skids with the bottom of the nose of the heli just hardly visible on the top of the screen and maybe the tips of the landing skids visible too. It seems to offer an excellent perspective, especially for take offs and landings. I can only assume that for your hooking applications with FPV this would also offer you a better perspective. Just my 2 cents on FPV on helis. It's not quite like fixed wing where the canopy is perfectly safe, for the most part. At least the prop won't be hitting it. Just thought i might mention that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
Oh, and if people thought that was bit over the top... we have plans to attach one of those small, fully automatic Air-Soft guns (small plastic BBs) for attacks in FPV mode. I will be sure to post videos! I do find that most forums are dedicated to making the very best 3D machine and less about making silly modifications. It might have to do with how much beer Canadians drink!
You might want to be careful with that kind of stuff, just to be safe i would check local laws too. I would never post videos either. Its cool and everything, but.....Either way it sounds like something that could bring a bad rep to the RC world, especially if some kind of accident ever did occur. I just disapprove of those applications for those reasons. But in America i might not always agree with everyone. But i will fight to the death to protect your right to do whatever you want as long as your willing to suffer the consequences, should there be any. Again just my 2 cents. The last thing we need is the FAA and other organizations attacking RC modeling.


And now for more sharing. Tip of the day, or whatever... Screw you.

I recently had to change my tail shaft out. I noticed a significant amount of wear on the tail gear. MAN! what cheap metal they made this out of. I know it's supposed to be soft for the rubber belt. But i just installed the old one a month or 2 ago or something. It was after one of those crashes i was having from the battery plug blackouts. I suppose it does get used quite a bit. But this kind of wear seems a bit much.

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Old Aug 22, 2012, 05:06 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
200 Posts
I did have the camera mounted under-belly originally but I found that the canopy helped to absorb vibration when compared to mounting it to the frame. It may end up back down there again. I'm still learning reading and experimenting on what works best.

I live in Canada and I'm not aware of any laws here that would stop me from doing what I'm doing. Why would posting FPV vids dropping eggs etc. stir up trouble? Is this is a USA homeland security threat thing? We are just having fun with no evil intent at all.

I'm shocked at the gear wear?? I would never have guessed to look for that and I have changed my belt several times. Good find and hint for the future! I'll be looking for that the next time I change it. I have never changed that gear since I bought this bird many, many months ago and I just happen to have a couple of spares in my kit.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Let the imagineering begin!

Looking forward to your efforts Brad.
Bummer for me today, my parts didn't show up, still riding around in the mail truck.
Wasn't a complete loss though, I cut and shortened all the wires to the RX, soldered all the pins back on the wires and re-assembled the plugs. Looks way cleaner without all the extra wire coiled and bow-tied everywhere, I was careful not to make the wires to short.
Also straightened a slightly bent motor shaft from my crash, runs straight and true now, no vibration as it had done with the slight wobble in the pinion.
If I can get some parts, it is ready for flight.

Viking
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I live in Canada and I'm not aware of any laws here that would stop me from doing what I'm doing. Why would posting FPV vids dropping eggs etc. stir up trouble? Is this is a USA homeland security threat thing?
Actually i was referring to the shooting projectiles like paint balls and airsoft weapons. RC weapons applications could become an issue, if there are not already some kind of laws. The AMA considers it Illegal or at the very least against their safety guidelines. Thats why i said you should check. Thats all i was trying to say. My 1st hobby is actually paint ball believe it or not. I've played woods and speed ball for a while. But no one in my area wants to play anymore. They are all scared i think. I don't know. But now i took up helicopters because the nearest place to go play at an establishment is over an hour away. It was a good fun though, while the paint ball thing lasted.

But as for the dropping and things like that. I don't think that would be an issue if they are fairly nerf like. I think i would consider eggs, for the most part, non hazardish lol. That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

For your convenience, the AMA safety code:

Quote:
Academy of Model Aeronautics National Model Aircraft Safety Code
Effective January 1, 2011
A. GENERAL: A model aircraft is a non-human-carrying aircraft capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere. It may not exceed limitations of this code and is
intended exclusively for sport, recreation and/or competition. All model flights must be conducted in accordance with this safety code and any additional
rules specific to the flying site.
1. Model aircraft will not be flown:
(a) In a careless or reckless manner.
(b) At a location where model aircraft activities are prohibited.
2. Model aircraft pilots will:
(a) Yield the right of way to all man carrying aircraft.
(b) See and avoid all aircraft and a spotter must be used when appropriate. (AMA Document #540-D-See and Avoid Guidance.)
(c) Not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport, without notifying the airport operator.
(d) Not interfere with operations and traffic patterns at any airport, heliport or seaplane base except where there is a mixed use agreement.
(e) Not exceed a takeoff weight, including fuel, of 55 pounds unless in compliance with the AMA Large Model Aircraft program. (AMA Document 520-A)
(f) Ensure the aircraft is identified with the name and address or AMA number of the owner on the inside or affixed to the outside of the model aircraft.
(This does not apply to model aircraft flown indoors).
(g) Not operate aircraft with metal-blade propellers or with gaseous boosts except for helicopters operated under the provisions of AMA Document #555.
(h) Not operate model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or while using any drug which could adversely affect the pilotís ability to safely control
the model.
(i) Not operate model aircraft carrying pyrotechnic devices which explode or burn, or any device which propels a projectile or drops any object that
creates a hazard to persons or property.

Exceptions:
 Free Flight fuses or devices that burn producing smoke and are securely attached to the model aircraft during flight.
 Rocket motors (using solid propellant) up to a G-series size may be used provided they remain attached to the model during flight. Model rockets
may be flown in accordance with the National Model Rocketry Safety Code but may not be launched from model aircraft.
 Officially designated AMA Air Show Teams (AST) are authorized to use devices and practices as defined within the Team AMA Program
Document (AMA Document #718).
(j) Not operate a turbine-powered aircraft, unless in compliance with the AMA turbine regulations. (AMA Document #510-A).
3. Model aircraft will not be flown in AMA sanctioned events, air shows or model demonstrations unless:
(a) The aircraft, control system and pilot skills have successfully demonstrated all maneuvers intended or anticipated prior to the specific event.
(b) An inexperienced pilot is assisted by an experienced pilot.
4. When and where required by rule, helmets must be properly worn and fastened. They must be OSHA, DOT, ANSI, SNELL or NOCSAE approved or
comply with comparable standards.
B. RADIO CONTROL (RC)
1. All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people, vessels, vehicles or structures and shall avoid endangerment of life and property of others.
2. A successful radio equipment ground-range check in accordance with manufacturerís recommendations will be completed before the first flight of a new or
repaired model aircraft.
3. At all flying sites a safety line(s) must be established in front of which all flying takes place (AMA Document #706-Recommended Field Layout):
(a) Only personnel associated with flying the model aircraft are allowed at or in front of the safety line.
(b) At air shows or demonstrations, a straight safety line must be established.
(c) An area away from the safety line must be maintained for spectators.
(d) Intentional flying behind the safety line is prohibited.
4. RC model aircraft must use the radio-control frequencies currently allowed by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Only individuals properly
licensed by the FCC are authorized to operate equipment on Amateur Band frequencies.
5. RC model aircraft will not operate within three (3) miles of any pre-existing flying site without a frequency-management agreement (AMA Documents #922-
Testing for RF Interference; #923- Frequency Management Agreement)
6. With the exception of events flown under official AMA Competition Regulations, excluding takeoff and landing, no powered model may be flown outdoors
closer than 25 feet to any individual, except for the pilot and the pilot's helper(s) located at the flight line.
7. Under no circumstances may a pilot or other person touch a model aircraft in flight while it is still under power, except to divert it from striking an individual.
This does not apply to model aircraft flown indoors.
8. RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the modelís attitude and orientation at all times.
9. The pilot of a RC model aircraft shall:
(a) Maintain control during the entire flight, maintaining visual contact without enhancement other than by corrective lenses prescribed for the pilot.
(b) Fly using the assistance of a camera or First-Person View (FPV) only in accordance with the procedures outlined in AMA Document #550.
C. FREE FLIGHT
1. Must be at least 100 feet downwind of spectators and automobile parking when the model aircraft is launched.
2. Launch area must be clear of all individuals except mechanics, officials, and other fliers.
3. An effective device will be used to extinguish any fuse on the model aircraft after the fuse has completed its function.
D. CONTROL LINE
1. The complete control system (including the safety thong where applicable) must have an inspection and pull test prior to flying.
2. The pull test will be in accordance with the current Competition Regulations for the applicable model aircraft category.
3. Model aircraft not fitting a specific category shall use those pull-test requirements as indicated for Control Line Precision Aerobatics.
4. The flying area must be clear of all utility wires or poles and a model aircraft will not be flown closer than 50 feet to any above-ground electric utility lines.
5. The flying area must be clear of all nonessential participants and spectators before the engine is started.

With that in mind. It seems many people have done the airsoft thing before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
I did have the camera mounted under-belly originally but I found that the canopy helped to absorb vibration when compared to mounting it to the frame. It may end up back down there again. I'm still learning reading and experimenting on what works best.
From what i know if it. Sabothane is your best friend for dampening vibration on your camera. You might want to look into that. But i don't know the mounting application of your camera. But 3M mounting tape is foam tape that is similar to sabothane. Just a little stiffer and probably not as vibe absorbent. But using a few layers of good mounting tape will dampen the vibes too. The 3m Extreme mounting tape boasts a 10 lbs. secured hold weight. So your camera, after the tape bonds for a few hours, is going to be affixed rather surprisingly tight. I use this stuff to secure my RX to the boom and on a good day i MIGHT be able to pry the RX off the shelf by hand. But most of the time i have to pry it up with a big flat head or scraper tool. It seriously holds that tight with 2 layers.

Good luck, and keep at it! I'm sure your not the only one doing these kinds of projects. I once saw a scale model CH-149 Cormorant with a working wench and drop rope. That was pretty cool. It even had a basket and attachments for the rope. Pretty cool.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Meh, It's not flying 100% yet. I probably have to adjust some swashmix settings or something. But Heli Biggie's previous question about his front flips being faster than back flips popped in my mind today when i went from inverted flight and front flipped back to upright. It was incredibly more powerful in that direction then when i do the back flip back to upright. I wonder why that is? It seems the Savox/Align servos have a proclivity for front flip speed. Or is it perhaps the forward momentum that helps propel the front flips? This is my theory. Perhaps you would know more about the physics behind it Viking? Or anyone else? I could adjust my travel with the TX but I'd prefer to self correct this behavior by countering it manually. I'd rather know the reasons behind it. It seems unlikely that the servos travel faster in one direction than the other.

Pretty good flights today anyway despite all the trash i talked.
V450D01 - Light 3D & Inverted flight (6 min 47 sec)
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 10:05 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
200 Posts
I use the Sabothene for gyro and for camera mounts. I find that getting the heli running really smooth is the best way to get steady videos. After many rebuilds, I can smooth out a V450D01 in less than an hour.

On the legal front, I'm flying on my own property and we aren't members of any groups or clubs. I see lots of great suggestions on the list and most are common sense, but I doubt there is anyone here in Canada that is going to impose or enforce rules on me while flying on my property. Of course we have no intention of damaging anything or hurting anyone. We are adults and assume the risks of playing with our silly toys.

I really don't like point (i), honestly, we are feeling the need to attach roman candles to our skids and capture the action on video, shooting at a target of course... on my property.... with all the appropriate safety considerations in place.
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