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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:19 PM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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I'll find the source & put the link up here, it might have been the Walkera webpage, but don't quote me.

Also on the motor, as long as it doesn't exceed the Amp. draw it should be ok. But let me find the source of what I was referring to first.


[QUOTE=clearprop88;22481652]
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Your motor may be the culprit, plus you do have to set up the RX pulse frequency correctly and there are 2 choices only on RX setup. The servos are all digital on the stock 450 you can't mix analog servos with digital if you did do that, they say it will burn them out. The stock Walkera ESC is rated at 40 Amps with a very short 60 Amp surge. I am starting to think that Walkera has made it that you need to run a Walkera RX/ESC/Motor only. If you want to run a different motor you will most likely need to change the RX/ESC. I do know that Walkera TX won't talk to (interface) with any other RX like Futaba/JR/Spectrum.

*********************
I have been flying with a Copterex motor, and the stock Walkera ESC for months with no problems.
http://www.wowhobbies.com/copterxcx2...icopter-2.aspx
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:30 PM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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Let me look at some info that I can paste up here, so I don't look like I am talking out of my Butt-Hole. I do know & have read that there is a way to change the PWM or as it is called "pulse width modulation" frequency. I'm sure it is set up on the receiver switches for the 2702V.

I'll get back to you.

Sorry if you are getting frustrated, but it seems that you have more than just one problem. We are all just trying to help you out. You may be getting overwhelmed with the amount of messages to you.

Just curious, how old are you? I'm 65 & will be 66 in 01/31/2013 I have had my trials & tribulations for a lot of years now, that is why I quit flying RC for 7 years! but I am back again now! Yippee!


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I am not aware of any way to change the RX PWM. As far as i know the 2702V has no such options. Besides that, Wowhobbies outfits this motor for sale on this heli. If anything the motor is only part of the problem with the STOCK ESC, which i am not using. MANY PEOPLE fly this heli with the TA 804 motor or other motors. Also many people burn up their ESC with the stock motor too! That is NOT MY PROBLEM for the 5th time... The problem is that the servos (that other people have also used with this RX) are not responding properly. The pitch response is MUCH slower then when i first installed them. I even installed a WHOLE new set of savox servo just to see. It's still not flying like when i first installed them so something has gone wrong since i installed them. So either my RX has gone bad, Is suffering incompatibility with the servos, or the servos are having some kind of issue/binding that I'm not seeing. Because the heli used to flip TOO fast using 70 - 70 - 70 swash mix Now pitch pumps are sluggish, and flips are not possible because the cyclic stalls out half way to inverted and leaves the heli on knifes edge. Forcing me to flip back forward to get level. This has never been an issue for me with the v450 with the stock servos, stock MG servos, or the Savox servo. Till recently.

The fact is that the 2702V is a sub-par 3 axis system. It's only saving grace is that it is easy to use. But just like all the rest of their electronics that are obviously soldered by a 12 year old.... IT SUCKS in quality! Child labor and proprietary restrictions really PISS ME OFF! I WOULD BE HAPPY TO REPLACE IT! Nothing would make me happier! But right now i don't feel like spending $230 on a AR2700BX or other RX/Gyro/TX worth a damn. Then have to buy a DX8 too.. If i have to go that route, i'd rather just buy a REAL professional quality heli. Like a Compass, guai or even possibly a goblin will be sitting in my living room a lot quicker than i planned if this crap keeps up.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 05:35 AM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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Here is what I found out the RX2702V does not have a way of changing PWM & the servos must be digital + be 1500 micro seconds or they burn out.

The only RX I saw that was adjustable was the RX2010 which was supplied with the Devo 10 TX. This info was in a pdf file which I could not cut & paste here.

It seems I made a error here about swash-plate settings. The RX2702V should be set for 3 servos @ 120 degrees.

On my Devo 10 it is set for normal 1 servo. Weird!

I still have not found the info about RX/ESC needing to be Walkera branded. Still looking.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 06:23 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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I think the RX802 and the RX1002 both have the option of 11ms and 22ms frame rates.

1500 is what? Their update speed? I don't think Walkera servos are that good! A standard digital servo updates at around 400 times per second. 1500 micro seconds would be 670x per second which also seems fast. Not saying you're wrong but I'm surprised if its accurate (given the quality of the driver board in the WKs vs that of the Align/Savox).
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Here is what I found out the RX2702V does not have a way of changing PWM & the servos must be digital + be 1500 micro seconds or they burn out.

The only RX I saw that was adjustable was the RX2010 which was supplied with the Devo 10 TX. This info was in a pdf file which I could not cut & paste here.

It seems I made a error here about swash-plate settings. The RX2702V should be set for 3 servos @ 120 degrees.

On my Devo 10 it is set for normal 1 servo. Weird!

I still have not found the info about RX/ESC needing to be Walkera branded. Still looking.

Guy's,
Thanks for all the brain work in an effort to get my V back in the air again.
So this is my setup: Devo TX and 3 servos 120 degrees with Align servos.
iflyhelis, you have your Devo set to 1 servo normal?
I'll try that as well to see if servo dirrection is correct and thanks to Integrity for this suggestion also.
Will this be a function of changing swashplate type and going back through and changing servo direction to get control motion correct once again? I was under the assumtion that if you saw proper control response moving your sticks and with hand holding by pitching and rolling the fuselage with gyro response being correct you were good to go.
I will reset to 1 servo normal now for the test, can't fly as I have a broken swashplate from the last roll over biut if I can work out correct control response in 1 servo normal at least I may see a step in the right dirrection and a huge learning experiance.
I'll post my findings in a few.

Thanks to all again
Viking
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 07:13 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Guy's,
Thanks for all the brain work in an effort to get my V back in the air again.
So this is my setup: Devo TX and 3 servos 120 degrees with Align servos.
iflyhelis, you have your Devo set to 1 servo normal?
I'll try that as well to see if servo dirrection is correct and thanks to Integrity for this suggestion also.
Will this be a function of changing swashplate type and going back through and changing servo direction to get control motion correct once again? I was under the assumtion that if you saw proper control responce moving your sticks and with hand holding by pitching and rolling the fuselage with gyro responce being correct you were good to go.
I will reset to 1 servo normal now for the test, can't fly as I have a broken swashplate from the last roll over biut if I can work out correct control responce in 1 servo normal at least I may see a step in the right dirrection and a huge learning experiance.
I'll post my findings in a few.

Thanks to all again
Viking
Viking, you have an RX2702V-D correct?
If so, I think this should be 3 Servos 120 degrees. If its a RX2703H-D then I don't know if it's now 1 servo mode or still 3 servo 120.

One thing I found useful was, after setting the RX switches, to set all my channels to work in NORM not REV. Make sure all values are positive/negative as per a reset model and then make sure the swash operates correctly.
The other point is to make sure the PIT and AILE servos are connected correctly for your stick mode.

Though if you have the RX switches and TX set as per HF711's pics you should have it right.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 07:15 AM
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A VIKING's Avatar
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1 servo Normal results

Placed my Devo TX in 1 servo normal mode and could not get correct control motion.
I tried many combinations of reverse switch settings and the swashplate would only respond to a reverse switch setting in pitch. Reversing elevator and aileron had no effect on servo movement, they did't respond to the reverse setting change at all, the just sat in the initial position they moved to after binding.

So here are the settings that get me correct control movement by stick and gyro:
3 servos 120 degrees
Elevator - reverse
Aileron - normal
Throttle - normal
Rudder - normal
Gyro - normal
Pitch- reverse

Any change from the above settings will result in incorrect control motion.
Could it be a servo to RX miss match? I have the servos set exactly to the supplement instructions for this setup. I have been through this so many time it makes my head spin. To see perfect control response only followed by an uncontrolable roll over on off takeoff is mind numbing.
Unless you guys see anything else it's back to the original Walkera servos from the Align servos. They were the last thing that was changed before my problems started.

Viking
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 07:44 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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I think you probably do need to go back to WK servos to confirm your RX isn't dead.
One other thing is which hole on the servo arms are you using?
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 08:02 AM
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For at least today...I AM THE BIGGEST FOOL!!!

All,
I believe I am seeing the error of my ways and after all the hub bub, it is again operator error, not the aircraft, not the electronics but me, the idiot who saw but did not recognize what should be.
I appologize to everyone for wasting your time and thank you for being presistant with me...yes I have been hard headed and blind.
So this is it, my self induced nightmare.
In reviewing Heliflier711's photos, I noticed that my RX gyro reverse setting switches (which I have noticed in checks over and over) for Ail and Ele were "on"...yup on. When going through the control checks for propper gyro attitude correction, I was focused in on the washout movement of the servo after it had already done the attitude correction so I was using the washout of the servo as the "correction" and guess what, the washout is the wrong direction to the initial needed correction which has already taken place, of course you can reverse this with a switch on the RX (thanks for the photo Heliflier) and make the washout look like the correct gyro correction. I would always think it was slow in making the correction when my roll over was so quick...man, I can't believe I thought that so many times without putting two and two togeather.
I am glad that I finally saw the error, my error, with all your help, and am relieved but at the same time I feel very unhappy I could be so blind to what was wrong.
So after the new swashplate is installed, I should be back in the V450 saddle once again.
Integrity, what main blades have you been using that you enjoy? Since I'm making an order.
Really looking forward to flying the Ice 50 in governor mode once again.

Please feel free to laugh at me...I deserve it.
Now if you will excuse me I have to finish eating crow and follow that up with a big piece of humble pie.

Viking
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 09:27 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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And there you have the benefit of leaving it and coming back a little later. Good on you for having the sense to give yourself a break and come back clear eyed.

Now I look forward to hearing and maybe seeing some good flights from you.

I'm very pleased to hear it's on it's way to being fixed!
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
And there you have the benefit of leaving it and coming back a little later. Good on you for having the sense to give yourself a break and come back clear eyed.

Now I look forward to hearing and maybe seeing some good flights from you.

I'm very pleased to hear it's on it's way to being fixed!
Thanks thwaitm!!...and for your help!
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 10:38 AM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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This is not the easiest hobby , and there is soooo much to learn , i believe the flying part is the easy part of the hobby, well wrecking is even easier.lol happy flights all.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
This is not the easiest hobby , and there is soooo much to learn , i believe the flying part is the easy part of the hobby, well wrecking is even easier.lol happy flights all.

I believe complaining about it is the easiest, I seem to have that down to a science but I do love everything about it.
Being away from the V450 allowed me to do one more good mod on the M120 so it wasn't a complete waste.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 12:07 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I think the RX802 and the RX1002 both have the option of 11ms and 22ms frame rates.

1500 is what? Their update speed? I don't think Walkera servos are that good! A standard digital servo updates at around 400 times per second. 1500 micro seconds would be 670x per second which also seems fast. Not saying you're wrong but I'm surprised if its accurate (given the quality of the driver board in the WKs vs that of the Align/Savox).
Actually the SH0257 is 1500usec, the same as the Align servos and the Hitech HS-5065MG. The stock Walkera servos are similarly speced to the HS-5065 but obviously as not as good. So all of these servos should be compatible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Integrity, what main blades have you been using that you enjoy? Since I'm making an order.

Viking
I have been using cheap fiberglass blades till i figure out what the hell is going on here. But i really like the Align blades myself. The Align 3G blades seem a little heavier and have better gyro response i think with heavier blades. I have used all of the Align 325 blades with great stability. But the Pro 3d blades are pretty decent too. Just make sure you replace them if you have ANY blade strike. They are not as well made as the Align blades and the blade roots have been seen just breaking and throwing blades off. That being said i have crashed a few sets of pro 3d blades myself and they looked fine to fly still.. But i tossed them. Not worth it. These are my 3 favorite blades so far (for the price)

Align 325D Pro:
http://helidirect.com/align-325d-pro...50-p-21182.hdx

Or if nothing else is available the blue ones:

Align 325F (blue):
http://helidirect.com/align-325f-car...50-p-21181.hdx

And the 3G blades:
http://helidirect.com/align-325d-3g-...es-p-23748.hdx


Then there is the 335mm CF blades that are the same size as the stock Walkera 450 blades:
http://helidirect.com/325mm-pro-3d-c...er-p-10339.hdx

And the 335 Fiberglass blades:
http://helidirect.com/325mm-pro-3d-f...50-p-10348.hdx

And the cheap 325mm FG blades:
http://helidirect.com/325mm-pro-3d-f...50-p-10348.hdx


Now if i could just figure out why my heli is blacking out after flipping. I flew 4 packs yesterday without trying to invert or flip. The 4 packs flew pretty nice till the 4th pack. I did 2 flips but shortly after the 2nd one the heli began to loose power and i actually managed an AR landing. But the motor power was cut off by the RX or ESC. After walking over the motor was a little warm but the ESC and servos and everything else were cool. The motor was only at about 100 degrees or so. Just about as warm as a metal surface facing the sun. Nothing I can see causing protection modes to come into effect. So WTH... My heli has developed a proclivity for crashing after inverting or flipping. It must think it's a civilian scale heli.

EDIT:
NOTE!! Thats a total of 6 flights with no failure or protection modes or anything like that. Then on the last one i tried flips and had the motor cut off. Perhaps something besides the battery plug is loose? Though that was an issue too. Eventually i will be ordering another TA804 motor and a stock motor as well. But right now i'm focused on a 200 size scale build i'm working on. It's also weird how it would not flip the other day and would just stall on blades edge till i flipped back or it fell out of the sky. But it would not complete a flip/inversion.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 01:17 PM
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[QUOTE=IntegrityHndywrk;22489461]

Now if i could just figure out why my heli is blacking out after flipping. I flew 4 packs yesterday without trying to invert or flip. The 4 packs flew pretty nice till the 4th pack. I did 2 flips but shortly after the 2nd one the heli began to loose power and i actually managed an AR landing. But the motor power was cut off by the RX or ESC. After walking over the motor was a little warm but the ESC and servos and everything else were cool. The motor was only at about 100 degrees or so. Just about as warm as a metal surface facing the sun. Nothing I can see causing protection modes to come into effect. So WTH... My heli has developed a proclivity for crashing after inverting or flipping. It must think it's a civilian scale heli.
************************************************** ****
In ST-1, or ST-2.
Are you using a V shaped throttle curve?
Start at 100%, and don't go below 50% at the bottom of the V.
Use a linear Pitch curve. Start at 0%, and end at 100%.
Check your pitch range. It should go from +/- 12 degrees, with 0 pitch at mid throttle.
You may already have it set up this way, but it's just a reminder of some things to check that might help to solve the problem.
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