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Old Jul 26, 2012, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Twisting cant hurt, soft start caused the delay on startup and Throttle1/Throttle2 have different calibration thresholds on the 2702V.

On the Ice, there is a function called "autorotation bail out", if that box isnt ticked in the software and its not calibrated the ESC will see 0 throttle as a shutdown and go into softstart mode, hence the mid air delay and gravity. With auto bailout it would have started right up, or had the throttle stick not gone to the 1ms threshold and stayed a little above it (dead bottom stick)
Thanks for the tip. I didn't know what that switch was for so I left it turned off.
I'll make that change.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Hey, a question for all you IT guys with these helicopters... Can anyone explain to me why the servo wires are not twisted to eliminate as much EMI as possible? I realize there is probably some specific twist per inch or something that would be required to actually work correctly. Is it perhaps because of the way we end up having to bundle the wires to tie them down so they don't flop around? I used to install communications systems for hospitals and condos. It just seems like twisting the wires like cat 5 or cat 6 would only help to eliminate any EMI, and i don't think it could possibly hurt. Am i wrong? Or is a ferrite ring more than enough to do the job? Because it's only on the ESC wire.

I suppose maybe, it does not matter? I just figure EMI might be able to create control changes or fluctuations in the servo's PWM?
There's only one signal wire on the servo wires so it doesn't need to be twisted.
Scramble wiring is used on the back of mainframe computers to reduce crosstalk. High frequency signal wires are never bundled side by side. In the case of our servo signal wires it's OK to bundle them because the freq's are too low to cause a problem.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 03:24 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I think im ready for a sim to play on, what one is that , can you use the 2801 tx?


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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
You were right though, i probably reacted poorly. Today i hit the simulator to start programing..... me.. and my muscle memory. I turned on the random motor failure and went for a few flights. I had 2 very impressive back to back AR landings. Well i thought they were impressive for me anyway.

Oh yeah, watch your volume. There was no sound so i dubbed in some music... it's a little loud!. I don't feel like fixing it and uploading it again though. sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSI_...ature=youtu.be
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I think im ready for a sim to play on, what one is that , can you use the 2801 tx?
This is the one Integrity is using. I use the same one. Buy the one with the adapter cable included. The 2801 works with the adapter.
http://www.wowhobbies.com/rtm4000pho...dapter_wk.aspx
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
There's only one signal wire on the servo wires so it doesn't need to be twisted.
Scramble wiring is used on the back of mainframe computers to reduce crosstalk. High frequency signal wires are never bundled side by side. In the case of our servo signal wires it's OK to bundle them because the freq's are too low to cause a problem.
Thanks much, i was wondering about that. I went and googled it and found that Futaba actually makes and sells twisted servo extension wires that are "Anti-interference". Rather interesting. It was just a thought i had today when i was fixing my wifi.


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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
This is the one Integrity is using. I use the same one. Buy the one with the adapter cable included. The 2801 works with the adapter.
http://www.wowhobbies.com/rtm4000pho...dapter_wk.aspx

+1, this is in fact the simulator i am using. I had to use 3rd party software to record the video though. Yes it does work with the 2801, but you will have to go through some extensive setup and software calibration to get it working so that all settings are 100% dictated by your TX instead of the software. Things like pitch curves and throttle curves as well as your switches. It's not hard at all really. It's just a little frustrating to get right. Once your done it's setup.. Only problem is it takes up a model slot in your 2801.. Sometimes more than 1 if you want different settings for virtual helicopters. I actually use my spare 2801 for this so i never get out in the field and go "DAM!!! LEFT MY TX IN FRONT OF THE TV AGAIN!!!" lol.




Well, Guess what... i did it again... Another crash today.. i should have stuck with the simulator. This time the elevator ball link on the swash somehow managed to get it's self loose. I probably loosened and broke the loctite when i was forcing it in and out of the stabilizer while adjusting the linkage length. I'm lazy like that. Oh well.. It was not stripped, so it screwed it's way out on it's own. There go my $20 align blades.... Again.. This time the blades shot down real hard when the swash broke free or something. The heli darted into the ground and broke the skids. The blade struck SUPER hard into the tail boom and bent it in a zig zag shape. I have the video too!! I have rebuilt the heli AGAIN using the parts i was going to use to build my 2nd 450. DOH! oh well... It was just the tail boom and main gear again. Blades too.. Just think... If it wasn't the Align blades i would only have paid about $15 dollars for this crash... Except when i got home and was checking the tightness of all the balls on the swash i broke one off in the hole... Lol. This has been a crappy day off. Video will be uploaded later after i cut the end off with all the expletives and screaming! lol.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 07:20 PM
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I have been 20 mins from Heli Direct all week. I came up here for some training. Trying to think of something I need before I go back home to Maryland. 😃
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
This is the one Integrity is using. I use the same one. Buy the one with the adapter cable included. The 2801 works with the adapter.
http://www.wowhobbies.com/rtm4000pho...dapter_wk.aspx
I am not saying you should use pirated software. But you can get Phoenix and the dongle for $20.00. Well its 2.0 but you can update it free with the 2.0 software. I know someone who has bought this and it works. 😃

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-2-0-almighty-flight-simulator-dongle-51480
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 08:11 PM
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OK...back to square one...where ever that is.


Re-built...re-riged...re-crashed trying to hover.
I seemed to have built the only flying machine that won't fly.
Checked it out over and over on the bench and ran it over and over without blades and everything worked as advertised.
Cut back on RPM and servo extension a little to keep the distruction down some what and tried to hover.
It dosen't matter if I try leaving the pad quiickly or slowly the end result is the same...imediate roll over but in being quick on the throttle I was able to experiment over and over and found out it will roll either direction, left or right and there's nothing I can do to stop it.
I had removed the foam pad from under the RX so maybe a freq is toying with it or like I said earlier maybe the RX is toast from the first crash.
Funny...it works properly on the bech or hand held while running without the blades.
Integrity, it looks like you and me can keep the blade manufacturer working for a long time.
Pretty soon I'll have enough bent tail booms to make a Pan Flute!
The only thing different from original are the Align servo's and I can't believe they would be responsible as they work correctly on the bench.

OK OK I'll get the training gear on til I figure this out. Did good tonight though, after many roll overs just scrapped the blades....things are looking up!

What am I not seeing guy's

Grounded Viking
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 01:29 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post

Re-built...re-riged...re-crashed trying to hover.
....
What am I not seeing guy's

Grounded Viking
How about ELEV? Does it want to tip you out over the front or is this working correctly? If really, it is only AILE which appears to be giving problems then:
1) flip that AILE reverse switch on the RX again and see what that is like - then
2) if it's still no good, flick it back again. See if maybe it wasn't engaged correctly.
3) set the AILE pot to 12o'clock/midway, try it at 0, 1/4, 3/4 and 1 as well. See if you get any change.

I'd also definitely be inclined to have at least something between RX and frame to cushion the vibes a little. I have 3M super strong double sided foam holding mine on currently.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post

Re-built...re-riged...re-crashed trying to hover.
I seemed to have built the only flying machine that won't fly.
Checked it out over and over on the bench and ran it over and over without blades and everything worked as advertised.
Cut back on RPM and servo extension a little to keep the distruction down some what and tried to hover.
It dosen't matter if I try leaving the pad quiickly or slowly the end result is the same...imediate roll over but in being quick on the throttle I was able to experiment over and over and found out it will roll either direction, left or right and there's nothing I can do to stop it.
I had removed the foam pad from under the RX so maybe a freq is toying with it or like I said earlier maybe the RX is toast from the first crash.
Funny...it works properly on the bech or hand held while running without the blades.
Integrity, it looks like you and me can keep the blade manufacturer working for a long time.
Pretty soon I'll have enough bent tail booms to make a Pan Flute!
The only thing different from original are the Align servo's and I can't believe they would be responsible as they work correctly on the bench.

OK OK I'll get the training gear on til I figure this out. Did good tonight though, after many roll overs just scrapped the blades....things are looking up!

What am I not seeing guy's

Grounded Viking
Yeah, you need foam tape at the least. I am using 3m extreme tape and to be honest it's overkill on the sticky. 10 lb. grip weight. It's really hard to remove later compared to regular 3m foam mounting tape. But i have been using 2 layers of it for my RX. The density of the foam tape seems to absorb the micro vibes set off from resonance pretty well. Probably not excellent. I hope you didn't ruin your RX already! mine has dents in the side from blade strikes, and hopefully is still working!!





While testing timing settings with my ESC. Just as i was about to land, the elevator ball link came unscrewed from the swash. Since it is the swash's anti-rotation arm as well as the elevator ball. All anti-rotation was lost on the swashplate.. The excellent part of this crash is that the rotation of the swash caused all of the ball linkages to be forcefully disconnected from the swashplate. The servos were completely free of anything that could have caused impact damage very early on. Thankfully! That is all the noise you hear just before the thing darts into the ground! This is the second crash that has not damaged the servos since i got them.

v450d01 - Loose elevator ball link = loss of anti-rotation on swash (1 min 36 sec)


Oh yeah, it wasn't the wind... it was a loose elevator ball... stupid.

The heli is rebuilt again... Minus any blades.. Got lucky again with the shafts too. the tail boom was mangled beyond repair though.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
How about ELEV? Does it want to tip you out over the front or is this working correctly? If really, it is only AILE which appears to be giving problems then:
1) flip that AILE reverse switch on the RX again and see what that is like - then
2) if it's still no good, flick it back again. See if maybe it wasn't engaged correctly.
3) set the AILE pot to 12o'clock/midway, try it at 0, 1/4, 3/4 and 1 as well. See if you get any change.

I'd also definitely be inclined to have at least something between RX and frame to cushion the vibes a little. I have 3M super strong double sided foam holding mine on currently.
Thanks thwaitm!
It's only a roll problem, it has never pitched forward or back.
Didn't think of the pots, they are still set to what they were before the big crash, I'll try reseting them.
but...I'll put the foam back under the RX. While hand holding and running without blades I notice a moderate vibration around the RX but didn't think it would be enough to create what I am seeing. If it ends up being the foam tape I'll spend the rest of the day laughing and slapping my knee. On my M120 I had to remove the foam tape and only go with the 3M double sided mounting tape which really calmed down the RX.

Integrity,
See you at the blade store

Viking
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 07:44 AM
They call me plan B
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Ouch that hurts. Sorry about that , that sure wasnt wind. It shot into the ground. Wow that was fast!



Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah, you need foam tape at the least. I am using 3m extreme tape and to be honest it's overkill on the sticky. 10 lb. grip weight. It's really hard to remove later compared to regular 3m foam mounting tape. But i have been using 2 layers of it for my RX. The density of the foam tape seems to absorb the micro vibes set off from resonance pretty well. Probably not excellent. I hope you didn't ruin your RX already! mine has dents in the side from blade strikes, and hopefully is still working!!





While testing timing settings with my ESC. Just as i was about to land, the elevator ball link came unscrewed from the swash. Since it is the swash's anti-rotation arm as well as the elevator ball. All anti-rotation was lost on the swashplate.. The excellent part of this crash is that the rotation of the swash caused all of the ball linkages to be forcefully disconnected from the swashplate. The servos were completely free of anything that could have caused impact damage very early on. Thankfully! That is all the noise you hear just before the thing darts into the ground! This is the second crash that has not damaged the servos since i got them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASM4h...ature=youtu.be

Oh yeah, it wasn't the wind... it was a loose elevator ball... stupid.

The heli is rebuilt again... Minus any blades.. Got lucky again with the shafts too. the tail boom was mangled beyond repair though.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 01:35 PM
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My V450 is belly up.

All,
Not looking good for the V.
What was done this morning was:
Checked vibe level at RX by changing belt tension, high or low tension resulted in nearly the same vibe level while operating with main blades removed.
Removed the tail drive belt, vibration level very, very low at any RPM at RX proving majority of vibration is caused by the belt drive.
Created different densities of foam pad from very soft to hard for the RX and found the same result, roll over on takeoff.
Changed dip switches and pot settings on RX with no change, just the same roll over.
I even started second guessing myself and picked up my M120 after binding and the swashplate reacts to fuselage movement identical to the V450, it always tries to stay level, and in the M120's case it fly's very well.
I am out of tricks and ideas for the V other than buying another RX and I won't go there so the drain on my wallet stops here unless one of you guy's has a brilliant idea that I just don't see.

Thanks,
Viking
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
All,
Not looking good for the V.
What was done this morning was:
Checked vibe level at RX by changing belt tension, high or low tension resulted in nearly the same vibe level while operating with main blades removed.
Removed the tail drive belt, vibration level very, very low at any RPM at RX proving majority of vibration is caused by the belt drive.
Created different densities of foam pad from very soft to hard for the RX and found the same result, roll over on takeoff.
Changed dip switches and pot settings on RX with no change, just the same roll over.
I even started second guessing myself and picked up my M120 after binding and the swashplate reacts to fuselage movement identical to the V450, it always tries to stay level, and in the M120's case it fly's very well.
I am out of tricks and ideas for the V other than buying another RX and I won't go there so the drain on my wallet stops here unless one of you guy's has a brilliant idea that I just don't see.

Thanks,
Viking

Well.. lets look at the slightly nonsensical..


How about your TX settings? Are you still using 3 servo setup? Or maybe did you switched it to single servo mode playing around? That would cause the reactions you are getting with the gyros working properly but once you take off it goes nuts. Otherwise i'm out of ideas... Go back over your TX from scratch if you have to maybe? I really can't get behind the notion that the RX/gyro is broken since your hand held tests are working.... You could try opening the RX jacket and looking inside to make sure nothing is loose or poorly soldered and got knocked loose. Who knows with these things anymore. I wish i could just hop in the car and say "i'll be right over, let me take a crack at it." But somehow i don't think your within driving distance lol.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 07:17 PM
Team WarpSquad
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Viking, when you are doing the Flybarless setup are you pushing AILE right or left? Try pushing it in the opposite direction. I think for me with a stock setup I push right. Try doing what you do but just switch it for AILE.
Otherwise... will your M120 Rx fit ??

And post your country... you never know there might be one of us who is close enough.
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