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Old Jul 21, 2012, 03:00 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Use the swash leveler for a hands off hoover. Works for me, 5.00 @ heli directed, or verify same distances from the frame with a micrometer - caliper at the swash 3 link points. Works on a Flybar and FL Trex 450 size too (anything with a 5mm main shaft) but with the flybar a little flight adjustment in the air may be needed to compensate for torque and I think whats most important is the heli is CG'd correctly, even more important than a level swash b/c the FBL unit will allow for minor discrepancies in level swash. With the leveler nothing is left to question though, even our imperfect human eyes its either dead level or its not.

Big Dawg you saw the vid some guy made on this subject right.......
Walkera V450D01 Swash & Follower Setup with the 2801-Pro (9 min 2 sec)
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:14 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,103 Posts
I have now, thanks , all the videos help. I can get it level, but i figured the tool will be better, i will order on my next shipment. but even better if i could make my own out of a wrecked swash, but oh well. Like i said i can get it level.
Now my next question is whats the first gear to get play on a crashed servo, and is it easy to replace, i have one servo with a little play after that last wreck.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 07:42 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,220 Posts
If you really want to make your own swash leveler there is a old trick, using a tie wrap on the main shaft;

Swash plate leveling using a zip tie 450 helicopter (2 min 30 sec)


Swash plate leveling on the cheap! (0 min 48 sec)


Servo ; Usually the one right before the output gear or the next one in line and then going down the line all the way to the motor gear on the servo.

How to change the gears in an Align DS520 Servo (4 min 17 sec)


Hitec HS-65MG Servo Rebuild (6 min 23 sec)
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 07:53 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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BTW you can always try spinning the output gear to the side where no teeth are missing as a quick fix, depending on which gear it is, since as you go higher up the train not all teeth are used for the movement on the heli with the gear. But if its general slop then a new gear set is needed. As long as the servo output arm doesnt shake under load or has excessive play under load like the old stock servos.did.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 11:01 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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My v450 is flying pretty good. Still taking it a little easy right now. I thought i had a good timing setting for my motor at 18.75* but after shooting this last video the battery only lasted about 3 minutes. It seems to run fine though. Perhaps i need to lower it again back to default 15*. Because It seemed to last about 5-6 minutes in just hovering it around. But with flips and things it was shorter. I'm still unclear what the PWM frequency should be too. Currently using 8khz. Default was 12khz but the instructions said most motors would use 8khz? Perhaps it warrants revisiting the other timing settings again since i have reduced the mechanical gain on the servo balls. The extra movement was causing the tail to kick in hard climb outs and punches. So i thought i needed higher speeds on the motor to compensate. I was wrong.

http://www.hobbywing.com/uploadfiles...l/HW-01-PL.pdf

Anyway here is the fist video from after all the trials and testing to get it set up. At this point I was thinking all the setup is complete, but the flight didn't last as long as i had hoped.

V450D01 Hobbywing Platinum 40A ESC - Savox Servos - TA 804 motor (3 min 34 sec)
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 02:24 PM
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A VIKING's Avatar
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
My v450 is flying pretty good. Still taking it a little easy right now. I thought i had a good timing setting for my motor at 18.75* but after shooting this last video the battery only lasted about 3 minutes. It seems to run fine though. Perhaps i need to lower it again back to default 15*. Because It seemed to last about 5-6 minutes in just hovering it around. But with flips and things it was shorter. I'm still unclear what the PWM frequency should be too. Currently using 8khz. Default was 12khz but the instructions said most motors would use 8khz? Perhaps it warrants revisiting the other timing settings again since i have reduced the mechanical gain on the servo balls. The extra movement was causing the tail to kick in hard climb outs and punches. So i thought i needed higher speeds on the motor to compensate. I was wrong.

http://www.hobbywing.com/uploadfiles...l/HW-01-PL.pdf


Anyway here is the fist video from after all the trials and testing to get it set up. At this point I was thinking all the setup is complete, but the flight didn't last as long as i had hoped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BjrHQlw5Y
Nice job on your flying and your video!!

PWM as explained by Castle:
This setting changes the frequency with which the controller sends power pulses to the motor. With some motor types, the higher the frequency the more efficient the motor will run, but always at the expense of increased heat within the controller. If you decide to experiment with changes to PWM, use a wattmeter, a tachometer and a temperature gun to find out how changes affect your entire power system. An increase in PWM frequency will always increase the controller temperature. It may or may not decrease the temperature of the motor.

As far as timing goes I have the Ice 50 set to "outrunner" which I believe is a low timing number. They have a variety of timing settings one could use but I think from your experiance you already now the differances, but for what it's worth this is what they say about timing:
Motor timing advance changes the timing advance range used on the motor. Generally, low advance gives more efficiency and less power. High advance gives more power at the expense of efficiency (motor heat). Every system will respond to changes in advance differently. All Castle Creations controllers automatically determine the correct and best range of timing advance for any motor they are plugged into when running in sensoreless mode. You can move up or down within that range via these settings.

Since I run in governor mode I don't know if timing settings could screw up the ESC's ability to maintain RPM.

HeliFlyer711, what do you say?

Viking
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Last edited by A VIKING; Jul 22, 2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 04:12 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Nice job on your flying and your video!!

PWM as explained by Castle:
This setting changes the frequency with which the controller sends power pulses to the motor. With some motor types, the higher the frequency the more efficient the motor will run, but always at the expense of increased heat within the controller. If you decide to experiment with changes to PWM, use a wattmeter, a tachometer and a temperature gun to find out how changes affect your entire power system. An increase in PWM frequency will always increase the controller temperature. It may or may not decrease the temperature of the motor.

As far as timing goes I have the Ice 50 set to "outrunner" which I believe is a low timing number. They have a variety of timing settings one could use but I think from your experiance you already now the differances, but for what it's worth this is what they say about timing:
Motor timing advance changes the timing advance range used on the motor. Generally, low advance gives more efficiency and less power. High advance gives more power at the expense of efficiency (motor heat). Every system will respond to changes in advance differently. All Castle Creations controllers automatically determine the correct and best range of timing advance for any motor they are plugged into when running in sensoreless mode. You can move up or down within that range via these settings.

Since I run in governor mode I don't know if timing settings could screw up the ESC's ability to maintain RPM.

HeliFlyer711, what do you say?

Viking
That all sounds about right. However, i think this ESC needs the timing to be set correctly for the gov. mode to work properly? I don't know for sure, but i'd rather have everything right. Today i tried 11.25*(degrees) and it seemed to work out well. The funny thing is on the highest timing nothing got hot at all but the flights were under 3 minutes.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 04:39 PM
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A VIKING's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
That all sounds about right. However, i think this ESC needs the timing to be set correctly for the gov. mode to work properly? I don't know for sure, but i'd rather have everything right. Today i tried 11.25*(degrees) and it seemed to work out well. The funny thing is on the highest timing nothing got hot at all but the flights were under 3 minutes.
Did you notice any power increase with the higher timing?
It's hard to increase power in anything without heat also increasing.
Interresting you had reduced flight times like the power was increased but again without heat build up, maybe your system is that efficient!
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 05:02 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,103 Posts
I had 2 great test fights today , i still have a wobble at low rpms, i think its still the tail drive assembly, but i bought a new head , DOH., i think my tests should have been done at the same rpms . Oh well i live a learn another day. I had a hands free hover, it was so smooth. So it was said that i need a press to fit the tail drive assembly. Did anyone say i can use my pinion puller? I dont have man tools ,lol. Im a cell tech ,not a metal worker! Or whatever!
Is there a video of the replacement?
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 06:36 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Did you notice any power increase with the higher timing?
It's hard to increase power in anything without heat also increasing.
Interresting you had reduced flight times like the power was increased but again without heat build up, maybe your system is that efficient!
Yes, there is a minor amount of increase in head speed/motor output between the current 11.25* and the max setting. But it's more like it narrows the throttle curve limits so it's running higher to the 100% mark even though i'm probably at 90% or 80% throttle. If that makes sense. At least thats the way I'm interpreting it. Since even on lower timings the heli had plenty of power. As for heat efficiency. Well these turbo ace motors do have that down pretty well. All 3 of my turbo ace motors perform at fairly high outputs while keeping a nice temperature. This particular one has a built in fan on it's outrunner. The 352 i've been running on my 4f200 is kicking out nearly the same head speed as the stock motor now, but it runs cool enough that i don't have any fear running 2 or 3 batteries back to back. I would say the same thing about the 215 motor in my v120d05, but that one really heats up the micro 20A ESC so i have to let the ESC cool. Otherwise the motor does not get hot at all. Maybe warm at best.

Again, the original reason i started raising the timing on the 450 was because the tail was kicking on hard climb outs and pitch pumps. I figured the timing was too low and the head speed was dropping causing the tail kick. This was in fact the case, but not due to timing. I had way too much mechanical gain on the servo arms. Since these servos can pull harder and faster, the mechanical gain had to be reduced. I had to move the balls back a little and that fixed the tail kicking. Now i'm going back though the timing and 11.25 flew very well today. I think i'll have to continue using this setting and watching for flight times and flight anomalies. So far, its VERY FREAKING HOT OUT!!! and the heli is taking it like a champ. The only thing that gets a little hot is the battery. The 20-30C packs get a little warm. The stock battery actually puffs some, even when it's not hot out. And the 40-50C Turnigy is actually not so bad. It's bigger and heavier though, but offers a better flight time and it does actually seem to have a stronger head speed too now that i'm using a lower timing i can tell a slight difference between the 20C and 40C packs.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 07:33 PM
Registered User
Torch8's Avatar
NYC
Joined Aug 2010
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Stock ESC burning Smoke

Today stock ESC went up in smoke, as I was just throttling to up go in a hover. Need to replace it, I can go with another stock or which one would you recommended (under $50 and plug-in-play without any soldering).

I am using power adapter on mine to use stock ESC bullet with XT-60 batteries from Hobbyking.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 08:01 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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I'll sell you my stock ESC for $20 shipped. It's currently sitting in my parts box but I have 2 other ESCs for this bird. I changed it out just to have a switched BEC rather than linear. That said, I think there are better options for <$50.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 08:29 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torch8 View Post
Today stock ESC went up in smoke, as I was just throttling to up go in a hover. Need to replace it, I can go with another stock or which one would you recommended (under $50 and plug-in-play without any soldering).

I am using power adapter on mine to use stock ESC bullet with XT-60 batteries from Hobbyking.
I'm having pretty good luck with the Hobbywing platnium pro 40A ESC so far. Although it might fry your stock servos. If you go this route you might consider getting Align or Savox servos. The stock ones can't handle the BEC output @ 5.2v - 5.3v or 6v on this ESC. But this ESC has more options and you will have to go though the setup and configure some things probably for all of the following suggestions as well as this one. I highly recommend upgrading your servos regardless.But this esc seems to have a nice fat heat sink in there to keep it cool. Not just a flat aluminum plate. Could be wrong though. :


Otherwise, i have not tried the following ESC on the v450. But the 20A version has been pretty good on my 4f200. ITS SUPER CHEAP and i have had no issues. I'm going to say this is a lateral move from the stock ESC. It's probably better, but i'll still going to say it's about the same. Just wired better, more reliable, probably more heat efficient, maybe.. :



Or you can go with the regular hobbywing "FLYFUN" ESC. This is probably just a little better than the skywalker line as far as heat efficiency and things like that. It has similar functionality though. I really almost think the main difference is the price tag. Maybe not. But it's still cheaper than stock!



These are just some of my suggestions. You will probably need to be able to solder your own XT60 connector on but the motor bullet connectors will all match up with the stock or turbo ace motors. Personally i like the platinum pro so far. It does not mind the summer heat much. The Skywalker on my 4f200 has been pretty friendly in the summer heat too though. So for $12 you might want to give that a go. You will have to program all of these ESC and solder the battery plug on, like i said. But it's really not very complex at all. Also there are program cards, or boxes to program the ESC if you want to spend the extra cash on those. Just make sure you get the right one for the right ESC you are buying. But i just program mine using the TX. Once it's set you won't have to fuss with it much.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I'll sell you my stock ESC for $20 shipped. It's currently sitting in my parts box but I have 2 other ESCs for this bird. I changed it out just to have a switched BEC rather than linear. That said, I think there are better options for <$50.
Great I'll take it. Will pm you.
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Forgot to me that I'm using Savox for cyclic servos. Maybe the Savox burned up my ESC? My swashmix is 40,40 and 45. Just setup v450d01 with a replacement V2702.
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