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Old Jul 11, 2012, 05:48 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
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My new tail drive assembly is coming today , but i wonder if something happened to my head? To make the wobble, .
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 06:12 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
My new tail drive assembly is coming today , but i wonder if something happened to my head? To make the wobble, .
What measurement do you get from the center of the servo arm screw to the center of the ball link in millimeters on Pitch and Aileron servos up front?
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 07:23 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I will have to do that later. But i just spooled up without the head on and everything is perfect, so if i already changed the fs , what could be wrong with the head? Could it just be bent? Is there something else to try before chenging the head
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 08:20 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I will have to do that later. But i just spooled up without the head on and everything is perfect, so if i already changed the fs , what could be wrong with the head? Could it just be bent? Is there something else to try before chenging the head
Have you checked the obvious, your blades? if they are off balance or not tracking properly. I don't know, just a suggestion. For me wobble always equated to play somewhere or having my gyro pot turned up too high. The usual places i would check was:

1. The shafts
2. The servos (slop / play in the gearing)
3. The blades
4. The ball links on the blade grips and swash plate. Make sure they are not stripped and wobbling around inside their hole.

Have you tried turning your aile/elev stabilization down a little bit? It could honestly just be as simple as that if everything mechanical is set proper.

I'm getting so sick of not flying my 450 i'm seriously about to rig it up to fly with half stripped stock servos and the stock ESC that keeps going thermal. I'm having a heli withdraw hard core over here. I can hardly enjoy the v120 size anymore. It's fun but.... My mainstay is the 4f200 right now. But i'm dieing to get the 450 back in the air.... COME THE HELL ON SAVOX!!! I can see it now... Here comes another thermal crash!
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 08:49 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,280 Posts
Like i said with the head off, its perfect. So i got the idea i should have had days ago, which was test with my v400 head which is the same head. Sure enough i have a bent yead. It flew perfect, even with the bent shaft and bent tail drive assembly. Oh well i can either order another head or use my v400 , only takes a second to swap. But i will order a new head. Is there an align head that works where i don t have to change anything else. Im just glad it flew and my money was not lost on those align servos ,
Sorry you have not got yours integrity!!

Do the align thrust bearings work for this head?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Have you checked the obvious, your blades? if they are off balance or not tracking properly. I don't know, just a suggestion. For me wobble always equated to play somewhere or having my gyro pot turned up too high. The usual places i would check was:

1. The shafts
2. The servos (slop / play in the gearing)
3. The blades
4. The ball links on the blade grips and swash plate. Make sure they are not stripped and wobbling around inside their hole.

Have you tried turning your aile/elev stabilization down a little bit? It could honestly just be as simple as that if everything mechanical is set proper.

I'm getting so sick of not flying my 450 i'm seriously about to rig it up to fly with half stripped stock servos and the stock ESC that keeps going thermal. I'm having a heli withdraw hard core over here. I can hardly enjoy the v120 size anymore. It's fun but.... My mainstay is the 4f200 right now. But i'm dieing to get the 450 back in the air.... COME THE HELL ON SAVOX!!! I can see it now... Here comes another thermal crash!
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 09:42 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Like i said with the head off, its perfect. So i got the idea i should have had days ago, which was test with my v400 head which is the same head. Sure enough i have a bent yead. It flew perfect, even with the bent shaft and bent tail drive assembly. Oh well i can either order another head or use my v400 , only takes a second to swap. But i will order a new head. Is there an align head that works where i don t have to change anything else. Im just glad it flew and my money was not lost on those align servos ,
Sorry you have not got yours integrity!!

Do the align thrust bearings work for this head?
Wow, bent head huh. I guess that could happen. You must have smacked it pretty good. Yes, the Align thrust bearings should work on this head. Though your new walkera head will come with some. There was that guy, not too long ago. He put an Align DFC head and align swash on his and it sounded like it was working out ok like that. But you need the swash and align linkages, shaft too i think. You might as well use the align ball on your servo arms too.

I was going to do it till i looked at the price tag for all of it. Maybe when i break the 3 rotor heads i have here in my parts box. You want to buy one? $40 shipped. They are still in the package.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:39 PM
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[QUOTE=HeliFlyer711;22137020]Nice, Im not familiar with that servo but it must have the slope on the bottom front of the case in order to be a drop in fit. Which pretty much eliminates a lot of the typical square cased servos without cutting the frame/ bearing blocks. Here is a vid of a guy that used Turnigy 90's which are the same as the Tower Pro MG 90's on the V450's Cyclic. Looks like he got the stock geometry right too.

Are the Tower Pro MG 90's analog servo's?
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 12:03 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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I had to edit this video because the first half was mostly me flying around off camera. The second half was mostly me shouting expletives. But you can see one of my ESC's epic fails here. This was, I think, the second to last flight i had on the v450. My last flight also ended in a ESC thermal or other type of failure. Pretty sure they are all thermal failures. The ESC's custom installed heat sink was getting hot enough to burn you. The ESC is still in 100% working order. It just does not seem to like the summer heat very much with this turbo ace motor. I can bind up and fly around for a few minutes. As long as i don't try to flip or anything like that It will usually make it though a whole pack. Like an idiot though, i tried to pull 2 flips in a row. Here is the result: (this was probably over 2 weeks ago)

V450D01 - Double Flip then ESC failure (0 min 15 sec)



Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
Are the Tower Pro MG 90's analog servo's?
I didn't think analog servos worked with the 2702V?
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 12:39 AM
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 02:44 PM
Fly, crash, fix, repeat...
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United States, WA
Joined Feb 2011
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Are you sure it's thermal shutdown? The TurboAce actually seems to put less stress on esc and both run cooler than with stock motor. I have never had a heat issue with my setup. Sounds like a connection or solder issue. If the esc is getting that hot there maybe other causes for it. Possibly bad connection in esc creating heat, maybe the flips cause a disconnect. I was unable to watch vid, sound came through but no video. (iPad issue not link) Im just throwing some other ideas your way. Hope you sort it out!
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 02:54 PM
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[QUOTE=HeliFlyer711;22137020]Nice, Im not familiar with that servo but it must have the slope on the bottom front of the case in order to be a drop in fit. Which pretty much eliminates a lot of the typical square cased servos without cutting the frame/ bearing blocks. Here is a vid of a guy that used Turnigy 90's which are the same as the Tower Pro MG 90's on the V450's Cyclic. Looks like he got the stock geometry right too.


This brings up a really intertesting question.
I checked on the Tower Pro MG90's, and the Turnigy 90's, they're both analog servo's.
If the guy in the video is flying his V450 with analog servo's, and the 2702RX, then the 2702 should work with analog servo's.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 04:54 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magooch View Post
Are you sure it's thermal shutdown? The TurboAce actually seems to put less stress on esc and both run cooler than with stock motor. I have never had a heat issue with my setup. Sounds like a connection or solder issue. If the esc is getting that hot there maybe other causes for it. Possibly bad connection in esc creating heat, maybe the flips cause a disconnect. I was unable to watch vid, sound came through but no video. (iPad issue not link) Im just throwing some other ideas your way. Hope you sort it out!
Yeah, i'm not exactly sure whats causing the heating on the ESC. The servos definitely seem to be the cause because when i over use them is when it stops responding and just does it's own thing. In the video i attempted 2 flips consecutively and before i was inverted on the 2nd one i had already lost control of the heli. I've replaced all the servos a few times now and the only thing i can think is it's the tail servo. It is usually burning up after a flight too. If it's not hot, neither is the ESC. But it's using a brand new stock tail servo. My 3rd one. On top of a Fusonic that burned out in 5 flights.

I have sorted it out, hopefully. All new electronics. I have a hobbywing ESC installed waiting for my new Savox servos. Speaking of which. I managed to get a hold of Mr. Joel at Savoxusa.com ( really hrp distributing) He said my servos had to be back ordered from Utah, like i knew already. I asked him for an ETA and why i got charged sales tax. He gave me some ambiguous answer. He said they should arrive here at their ware house tomorrow, then ship out. Then when i asked for a specific ETA and he said something about the 17th-21st they should ship from Utah...... So they couldn't possibly be here at their warehouse tomorrow. Instead of blowing up at the guy i just hung up.... I'm ordering another set from club heli, Christ sakes. Anyone want to buy a set of Savox servos in 2-3 weeks when they arrive at my house??? Guess i'll be stuck with a spare set. Maybe i'll just build another 450 from parts. I'm just sick of waiting. If i still have issues like this after the new equipment, then i know its the RX or the motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
This brings up a really intertesting question.
I checked on the Tower Pro MG90's, and the Turnigy 90's, they're both analog servo's.
If the guy in the video is flying his V450 with analog servo's, and the 2702RX, then the 2702 should work with analog servo's.

I was under the impression that the 2702V did not like to operate with analog servos. Mostly because of wow hobbies listing for the 2702 and their warning. But i really have never tried.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 05:03 PM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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[QUOTE=clearprop88;22146227]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Nice, Im not familiar with that servo but it must have the slope on the bottom front of the case in order to be a drop in fit. Which pretty much eliminates a lot of the typical square cased servos without cutting the frame/ bearing blocks. Here is a vid of a guy that used Turnigy 90's which are the same as the Tower Pro MG 90's on the V450's Cyclic. Looks like he got the stock geometry right too.


This brings up a really intertesting question.
I checked on the Tower Pro MG90's, and the Turnigy 90's, they're both analog servo's.
If the guy in the video is flying his V450 with analog servo's, and the 2702RX, then the 2702 should work with analog servo's.
They dont sell the turnigys at HK anymore AFAIK, but yes that would imply that these particular TGY90S worked with the 2702V from reading the post on the utube vid. But I tend to not take everything I read on the internet as fact, especially the last 2 pages on this thread. LOL.

The TGY's dont specify analog or digital and at the time digitals were just starting to come up with the economy servos, so they are most likely analog. The 2702V's tail servo spec is 333hz (digital) Cyclic could be the same or slightly less, analogs are usually 70hz but.....the 2702v's outputs would have to be scoped out to know for sure.

Although some cheap digital servos are just analogs in drag, they will work at a high refresh rate but burn out eventually. Givien the time and the price @ 5.00 a pop it was probably worth a shot, the thing I didnt like with this mod (even though the servos were installed properly), was that frame had to be cut. Good eye in seeing that though, Walkera has always specified DIGITAL servo's only with the 2702V.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 07:55 PM
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[QUOTE=HeliFlyer711;22147228]
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post

They dont sell the turnigys at HK anymore AFAIK, but yes that would imply that these particular TGY90S worked with the 2702V from reading the post on the utube vid. But I tend to not take everything I read on the internet as fact, especially the last 2 pages on this thread. LOL.

The TGY's dont specify analog or digital and at the time digitals were just starting to come up with the economy servos, so they are most likely analog. The 2702V's tail servo spec is 333hz (digital) Cyclic could be the same or slightly less, analogs are usually 70hz but.....the 2702v's outputs would have to be scoped out to know for sure.

Although some cheap digital servos are just analogs in drag, they will work at a high refresh rate but burn out eventually. Givien the time and the price @ 5.00 a pop it was probably worth a shot, the thing I didnt like with this mod (even though the servos were installed properly), was that frame had to be cut. Good eye in seeing that though, Walkera has always specified DIGITAL servo's only with the 2702V.
OK. Just out of curiousity I'll plan on experimenting with those analog servo's on cyclics.
BTW I just watched the Finless Bob video on pinning the tail boom on the TRex 450Pro. My Rex tail boom has occasionally been twisting about 10 deg off the vertical, so I know how to pin it now.
So far I have'nt had a problem with my V450, but I'll just do them both at the same time.

Thanks for the tip.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Joined Oct 2009
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Thats a mod mostly for a TT heli like the 450-Pro or larger.
On a belt drive 450 with a decent standard size tail servo, if the main blades are taken off and only the tail blades left on..... Then its spun up at 100% throttle in HH, there would be some significant torque forces and stress at play on the boom that can be seen and felt as the heli is moved off axis to the left and right. If the servo is good enough, motor stong enough and lipo powerful enough to hold the pitch of the blades at the extreme left, the belt may even skip a few teeth as the tail blades bogg down.
Great way to burn out a tail servo.

That part of the build vid is crazy right, when he pulls the boom out of the frame.....Finless didnt have the tail boom braces connected at that point yet though. What I do on my Pro is just use a piece of transparent scotch tape and wrap one layer around the end of the boom so it makes more of a surface contact. I've also sanded down the paint and roughend up the surface on the end of the boom so the boom block would grab it with more friction. With the 450belt drives I just make sure the boom struts are glued and screwed down tight. The boom brace makes it like one solid mount and helps out with vibes also.

Let us know how the analogs work on the 2702V, but even if they work the question will be how long will they last at digital pulse rates.
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