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Old Jul 06, 2012, 09:17 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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Well my main gear was too tight ,maybe. But the head is tight. I never changed out my oneway gear after wreck. I sure hope i dont have to order something else. so when i get my tail drive assembly , can i swap it out by just loosening some screws , or do i have to take her apart.??
How did you fix fs , tightness. Or is it ok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
These things, on mine those silver bushings were out of spec (too long) on the tapered end and this was causing tail blade grip slop. But there was only a small amount of extra material there, take too much off and it will bind up, leave too much on and theres slop (possible tail wag). If one or both of those 2 arms hanging down move laterally instead of only up and down then they are out of spec. Those arms ride on the tapered end of the bushings, but if theres space between the bolt head and where the taper ends and the arm is too loose, thats where the problem can be.
One of the things I do on all my helis is try to eliminate as much unneeded slop as possible, either adding shims or filing down..... but there are some parts that actually need a little.

I noticed using the Align FS that the head/blade grips were tighter, and its only ~1mm shorter than stock. But that was enough to throw off the balance of the blades dynamically. The tail wouldnt likely make the head shake but the if the gear is tighten down too tight that could cause problems. Dont be afraid to torque down the head bolt though. The head has an expansion joint and this is one place where you can screw it down good and tight.



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Last edited by Heli Biggie; Jul 06, 2012 at 09:19 PM. Reason: More info
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 07:03 AM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
Joined Jan 2012
1,156 Posts
I know its been asked a hundred times, but the answer seems to keep changing as something bigger and better comes out, but in your all's honest opinion; what are the best direct replacement servos for the 450? cyclic and tail.

Im starting to get power shutoffs of my motor during flight and I believe its a servo starting to fail thats sending my ESC into protection mode. Only happens once i reach a certain head speed, ie once in a hover. This happened significantly more when i had an unbalanced set of blades on so i figured it was putting extra stress on the servos and thus BEC.

I currently fly stock servos with a turbo ace motor and Align 35a ESC.

Hovever i have read that the BEC in the Align 35a is only 2a... Would this seem low to anybody else especially since i also carry a GoPro? i would think 3a or more would be better.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 09:19 AM
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A VIKING's Avatar
Joined Mar 2012
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Ice 50 Report


That's right I can't wipe the smile from my face.
If you like to know what's happening with your flight system this setup with the USB link is the cat's meow.
Made flights in the "normal" setup with recorded data and then went through the process of setting up govener mode with more recorded data in subsequent flights to compare. Right off the bat the governer mode made me a smoother flyer. In normal mode I had RPM swings of several hunred RPM depending on collective position but govener mode held true and flat line on the graf at the programed 3,082 RPM with very slight RPM changes during a rapid power application and reduction (which you can match up to your throttle movement on the graf) which I should be able to elliminate all togeather with an adjustment to gain but again it's super slight at about 20 RPM.
How sensitive is the system? With the TX and RX bound sitting on the pad you can rotate the rotor by hand and it plots that rotation which you will see on downloading the data.
Way Cool

Very Happy Viking
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:26 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,221 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
I know its been asked a hundred times, but the answer seems to keep changing as something bigger and better comes out, but in your all's honest opinion; what are the best direct replacement servos for the 450? cyclic and tail.

Im starting to get power shutoffs of my motor during flight and I believe its a servo starting to fail thats sending my ESC into protection mode. Only happens once i reach a certain head speed, ie once in a hover. This happened significantly more when i had an unbalanced set of blades on so i figured it was putting extra stress on the servos and thus BEC.

I currently fly stock servos with a turbo ace motor and Align 35a ESC.

Hovever i have read that the BEC in the Align 35a is only 2a... Would this seem low to anybody else especially since i also carry a GoPro? i would think 3a or more would be better.
I know of 4 types of servos that have been installed in the V, Stocks (of course), Align DS410m's Savox Sh0257's Hitecs? and the turnigy mg90's. Out of the 4, with The 1st 3 the frame doesnt need to be cut, but the t-mg90's it seems like the frame did have to be cut. I dont know if the guy who installed them cut the frame to get 90 servos arms to the swash and didnt realize they balls could be extended out 5 or 6mm from the servo arms, or if the frame had to be cut because the actual servo case didnt fit the V's frame. Check back in this thread for the hitec 56?? cyclic servo that can be used.

About the Aling ESC the X is only 2A BEC and not enough IMO the P version is 3A and what is being used on the newer align FBL kits.

For more info on the servo upgrade for the V450;
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1656159

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...02&postcount=8

Id like to add the hitec cyclis servos to the list so if you find out which one was used please post it up. Demonofpyro is the guy who used them just search for that name in this thread.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:29 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post

That's right I can't wipe the smile from my face.
If you like to know what's happening with your flight system this setup with the USB link is the cat's meow.
Made flights in the "normal" setup with recorded data and then went through the process of setting up govener mode with more recorded data in subsequent flights to compare. Right off the bat the governer mode made me a smoother flyer. In normal mode I had RPM swings of several hunred RPM depending on collective position but govener mode held true and flat line on the graf at the programed 3,082 RPM with very slight RPM changes during a rapid power application and reduction (which you can match up to your throttle movement on the graf) which I should be able to elliminate all togeather with an adjustment to gain but again it's super slight at about 20 RPM.
How sensitive is the system? With the TX and RX bound sitting on the pad you can rotate the rotor by hand and it plots that rotation which you will see on downloading the data.
Way Cool

Very Happy Viking
Nice one viking, i bet your surprised to see now how low of amps reading omes out just puttering around and how maybe the motor will peak past 30A every now and then on a full punchout if that. Gov mode is sweet but on mine i lose about 500rpm from 3600 to 3100 but that 3100 is rock steady. the 3100 is easier on everything though so i let it stay there.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:35 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Well my main gear was too tight ,maybe. But the head is tight. I never changed out my oneway gear after wreck. I sure hope i dont have to order something else. so when i get my tail drive assembly , can i swap it out by just loosening some screws , or do i have to take her apart.??
How did you fix fs , tightness. Or is it ok.
Biggie check out the pics in the blog for reference, you could loosen the screws but it will be tight. I found the best way was to break the heli down because everything has to be lined up. Out of all the repairs that can be done on this bird, because its a split frame, this one is probably the most time intensive one and the hardest. Because that gear assembly is in the heart of the frame. Your gonna need a press for the gear and make sure to use some CA on the belt hub to lock it in place. It comes in a bag in pieces and has to be assembled, so it all lines up.

See #3 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...93&postcount=7
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:41 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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I quickly installed my savox tail servo today, since none of the cyclics are here and the 450 is in pieces on my bench.

It seemed like the tail gyro hardly moved this thing at all. I didn't play with it much. But yeah, moving the tail around after neutral and endpoint setup it hardly moved, and sometimes wanted to just go to one side. I'll have to play with it more when i can. But any ideas on this? I was under the impression it would be more sensitive.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:42 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I quickly installed my savox tail servo today, since none of the cyclics are here and the 450 is in pieces on my bench.

It seemed like the tail gyro hardly moved this thing at all. I didn't play with it much. But yeah, moving the tail around after neutral and endpoint setup it hardly moved, and sometimes wanted to just go to one side. I'll have to play with it more when i can. But any ideas on this? I was under the impression it would be more sensitive.
Thats usually a sign of the gains in the radio turned down too low.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Nice one viking, i bet your surprised to see now how low of amps reading omes out just puttering around and how maybe the motor will peak past 30A every now and then on a full punchout if that. Gov mode is sweet but on mine i lose about 500rpm from 3600 to 3100 but that 3100 is rock steady. the 3100 is easier on everything though so i let it stay there.
I've seen 28 amps on a punchout but can say it wasn't full travel on the stick.
The whole thing is just very interresting, no more guessing, make some tweeks, do a flight, check the data and compare...life is great.
The RPM loose you mentioned...I have also seen 3600 on the chart before governor mode and of course 3082 in governor mode as selected. Higher RPM's could be selected to a point, but eventually you'll run out of governing ability, am I correct in that thinking? If you want flat out max head speeds the governor can't go there...correct?
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 01:38 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Yes gov mode needs headroom to keep everything tight at the selected RPM, like cruise control for your heli, Engin has the capability to go faster or slower but the most importanthing is the the Gov mode RPM is in the heli's gearing peak powerband. Without changing pinions and motor KV for a higher gov RPM ~ 3100 sounds OK, i get the same thing with the Align BL450M 3500kv 14T and since the stock walkera motor is matched specs that sounds right. Gov mode limits headspeed correct ...but in the end can give better overall performance as the heli travels through pitch ranges less loss of rpm ocurs that translates to a more onnected feel in flight.. Still though with the fixed endpoints the heli feels wicked fast. but i dont feel like buying an 80.00 scorpian motor just yet to get a 3700 gov rpm @ 100 stick flats.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Yes gov mode needs headroom to keep everything tight at the selected RPM, like cruise control for your heli, Engin has the capability to go faster or slower but the most importanthing is the the Gov mode RPM is in the heli's gearing peak powerband. Without changing pinions and motor KV for a higher gov RPM ~ 3100 sounds OK, i get the same thing with the Align BL450M 3500kv 14T and since the stock walkera motor is matched specs that sounds right.

Other Gee Wizz information, for a 90-95 degree day my motor temp is stable between 130 degree's to 140 depending on flight loading and that's at my backyard slow flight airpeeds. I'd like to tape off my intakes and disable my fan to see if I get an increase.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 01:53 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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Efficiency!
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 03:48 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Thats usually a sign of the gains in the radio turned down too low.
Thanks for the input, I was at 80%. I think it should have been responding. I had a minute to run by the bench and power it up and check again. I had my reverse switches on the TX and gyro backwards during end point setup. I don't know i thats what the cause was because after running though the setup again it was still not hardly responding. I rebinding and it was sensitive as all get out. Kind of strange, but i suppose your supposed to reset the RX after setup anyway? /shrug.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 04:01 PM
IHW Heli Division
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Other Gee Wizz information, for a 90-95 degree day my motor temp is stable between 130 degree's to 140 depending on flight loading and that's at my backyard slow flight airpeeds. I'd like to tape off my intakes and disable my fan to see if I get an increase.
I was trying to tell you, your intakes should be enough if your just moving around slowly along with the gear fans and the down wash pushes around huge air streams though the heli. The castle should be top notch at this kind of application. It's my hobbywing esc i should be thinking about installing a fan for. Time will tell. It's driving the tail servo on the bench with 3 stock cyclics and the stock cyclics have not burned up yet. But i have not been using the cyclic stick or working the servos.

Viking, just FYI. I did in fact rewire my stock servos when i received them. One of them i rushed though and some was still poping up above the PCB. The other actually melted and shorted from the head UNDER the pcb. So all it takes is for them to run hot once or bind up and have an amperage spike. Anyway, i'm just trying to save you from what i have already thoroughly tested and attempted to do exactly what you are doing. The end result is this photo showing the results of about 2 weeks with the stock V450:
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Other Gee Wizz information, for a 90-95 degree day my motor temp is stable between 130 degree's to 140 depending on flight loading and that's at my backyard slow flight airpeeds. I'd like to tape off my intakes and disable my fan to see if I get an increase.
I just got my Ice 50. I'm trying to decide on where to mount it. How does it balance out with it under the battery?
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