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Old Jul 04, 2012, 11:40 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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If anyone, like me, has been looking for available night blades... Well i cant afford these. But they are absolutely the coolest night blades. They draw images inside the rotor disc as it spins with LEDs. Pretty damn cool stuff.. And Magic blades offers discounted crash replacements for returning customers on their web site. Here is a link to heli direct's new item though.

http://helidirect.com/kok-magic-325m...de-p-25971.hdx

MFG site:
http://www.nightmagicblades.com/
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Torch8's Avatar
NYC
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I wish i could help you but i have not received my savox servos from savoxusa.com yet. In fact i have not even received any shipping notification with tracking or anything. So far, i really would rather have ordered them from clubheli.com. Hopefully they arrive any day now. But i have no way know knowing if they even shipped them yet.

I would refer to heliflyer711's build log for the info your looking for. His info on the Align servos is also the same for the savox.
No problem, if you update your Savox experience when you get yours.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Maybe turn down the gyro.
The gyro had the biggest possitive effect on my intermittent shudder.
I had started at 80% on the TX when new but turned it down to 75% because of the shake it had at that time.
The shudder I had yesterday has 99% gone away with the TX gyro now reduced to 70%.

Thanks!
Viking
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 11:04 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
The gyro had the biggest possitive effect on my intermittent shudder.
I had started at 80% on the TX when new but turned it down to 75% because of the shake it had at that time.
The shudder I had yesterday has 99% gone away with the TX gyro now reduced to 70%.

Thanks!
Viking

Huh, go figure. The tail was wagging then? Be careful if you fly 3d. I loose my tail with the stock tail servo in flips if i use below 80%. 70% will hold it but if you pitch to hard it will kick the tail to the right.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 12:11 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
This is what I have for RX settings:
AILE=max+
ELEV=10:00
BAL=1:00
TAIL=max+

When I recieved the ship the AILE was max positive and I thought that was wrong but after resetting to 12:00 and flying and making corrections to reduce the shaking, I ended up back at max positive.
Again not a huge issue with me but it is a curiosity. If I could correct it I would, just because.

I was hopeing one of you guy's had seen it before.
How are you looking at the RX? the reason I ask is the Tail Delay (Tail D.)should be set to minimum for the stock digital tail servo (or any modern fast digital tail servo). Tail D. is used only to add delay to the servo signal coming out of the tail gyro (z axis) for older slower digital servos. Even the cheapest digitals today run 333hz on the tail.

The other 3 Pots (Balance D.elay - Elev S.ensitivity - Aile S.ensitivity) are not very sensitive from min - to + max, in that huge changes arent noticed after 12'o clock. Im sure theres some varience between RX/Gyro's due to the pots, but it s not very much. One of the reasons sharing pot settings isnt the best idea, instead general areas or quadrants might be better. Kind of like low medium high settings.

One thing thats for sure is the stock servos dont like the gains turned up max+ and wobble comes from slop in the servo geartrain, oscillating feedback to the sensors in a closed loop. Usually for the best 3 axis correction while still keeping agility = somewhere ~ 9'o clock on all 3 pots (Bal D. - Elev S. - Aile S.) and minimum on Tail D. seems to be what most pilots agree on the best setting for the 2702V. Many people also fly at 12'0 clock center as thats how it should have come from the factory w/(tail d min).

heres a pic of a typical factory setup looking at the RX words faceing rightside up; ignore swash reversals for stock setup

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Huh, go figure. The tail was wagging then? Be careful if you fly 3d. I loose my tail with the stock tail servo in flips if i use below 80%. 70% will hold it but if you pitch to hard it will kick the tail to the right.
In an effort to be prepared for a possible crash during a flip, would I see the kick in a max collective pitch pump or just in a flip. The reason I asked is if I can see the kick happening in the pitch pump or other simple manuver I would hesitate doing the flip for fear of loosing it. Nothing is a sure bet but if I could identify issues during normal flight that I can expect during 3D flight I might save some rebuild time.

Thanks!
Viking
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
How are you looking at the RX? the reason I ask is the Tail Delay (Tail D.)should be set to minimum for the stock digital tail servo (or any modern fast digital tail servo). Tail D. is used only to add delay to the servo signal coming out of the tail gyro (z axis) for older slower digital servos. Even the cheapest digitals today run 333hz on the tail.

The other 3 Pots (Balance D.elay - Elev S.ensitivity - Aile S.ensitivity) are not very sensitive from min - to + max, in that huge changes arent noticed after 12'o clock. Im sure theres some varience between RX/Gyro's due to the pots, but it s not very much. One of the reasons sharing pot settings isnt the best idea, instead general areas or quadrants might be better. Kind of like low medium high settings.

One thing thats for sure is the stock servos dont like the gains turned up max+ and wobble comes from slop in the servo geartrain, oscillating feedback to the sensors in a closed loop. Usually for the best 3 axis correction while still keeping agility = somewhere ~ 9'o clock on all 3 pots (Bal D. - Elev S. - Aile S.) and minimum on Tail D. seems to be what most pilots agree on the best setting for the 2702V. Many people also fly at 12'0 clock center as thats how it should have come from the factory w/(tail d min).

heres a pic of a typical factory setup looking at the RX words faceing rightside up; ignore swash reversals for stock setup

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
HF711,
I have always been confused with the RX setting orientation and direction of rotation of the adjustments because of the layout of the RX markings.
Let me tell you what I think I understand and you can tell me if I am correct because I do not know and assuming in aviation is deadly.
First, the two dots on the adjustment screw represent what would be feathers on an arrow with the opposite end being the pointer.
Second, looking at the image your have supplied of the RX which matches the image in the manual and in lookig at the adjustment screws, a counter clockwise turn will be in a negative direction.
Third, when someone say's 12:00 they are refering to the adjustment position center between min. and max.
What's messing with my head is that rotating the screws counter clockwise will have the pointer at the "+" sign on the RX. That is why I said I had max "+" adjustments on AILE and TAIL adjustment screws in my previous post, they are actually full negative "-".
Is my thinking correct?
I'll go back and correct my original post to prevent someone from thinking I actually fly around with max gain on TAIL and AILE.

Thanks!
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 02:00 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
HF711,
I have always been confused with the RX setting orientation and direction of rotation of the adjustments because of the layout of the RX markings.
Let me tell you what I think I understand and you can tell me if I am correct because I do not know and assuming in aviation is deadly.
First, the two dots on the adjustment screw represent what would be feathers on an arrow with the opposite end being the pointer.
Second, looking at the image your have supplied of the RX which matches the image in the manual and in lookig at the adjustment screws, a counter clockwise turn will be in a negative direction.
Third, when someone say's 12:00 they are refering to the adjustment position center between min. and max.
What's messing with my head is that rotating the screws counter clockwise will have the pointer at the "+" sign on the RX. That is why I said I had max "+" adjustments on AILE and TAIL adjustment screws in my previous post, they are actually full negative "-".
Is my thinking correct?
I'll go back and correct my original post to prevent someone from thinking I actually fly around with max gain on TAIL and AILE.

Thanks!
Think of a volume control on a stereo, it starts at the left CCW and to turn volume up spin to the right. That is if the stereo isnt upside down or sideways......., then it could be seen as reversed. Same deal here to turn the gain up, so thats how to know which way to approach it.

This has happened before when another pilot and I were comparing pot settings with the 2702V some time ago. Only he was looking at the RX from the rear tail side and I was looking at it as shown in the picture, or from the middle right side of the heli. So our comparisons were totally wrong. Just goes to show you how no 2 brains work exactly alike right, and walkera's manual isnt exactly clear on this its just taken for granted people will know the direction of adjustment

Looking at it from the front the pots go from about 7'o clock (min) to 5 o'clock (max) port to starboard with the servo lables words facing the adjuster.............
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Think of a volume control on a stereo, it starts at the left CCW and to turn volume up spin to the right. That is if the stereo isnt upside down or sideways......., then it could be seen as reversed. Same deal here to turn the gain up, so thats how to know which way to approach it.

This has happened before when another pilot and I were comparing pot settings with the 2702V some time ago. Only he was looking at the RX from the rear tail side and I was looking at it as shown in the picture, or from the middle right side of the heli. So our comparisons were totally wrong. Just goes to show you how no 2 brains work exactly alike right, and walkera's manual isnt exactly clear on this its just taken for granted people will know the direction of adjustment

Looking at it from the front the pots go from about 7'o clock (min) to 5 o'clock (max) port to starboard with the servo lables words facing the adjuster.............
Perfect example!
I understand!
Whats your take on my AILE being full negitive to eliminate shake, is it the norm or just what this particular RX requires because of differences with pot values.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:22 PM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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It sounds like servo slop on the 2 front servos, thats usually the primary cause of the wobble on this heli, barring any bent shafts which you most likey dont have since no crashes and the heli is newer.

Like the closed feedback loop example. Heli moves off axis, Gyro corrects, Servo moves, gyro corrects, servo moves again and overshoots, gyro senses the overcorrection and gives a signal to the servo to correct, overshoots etc. Maybe it will catch up and stop or maybe not, but The cyclic servos and the (X-Y) gyros are out of sync signal wise. If this happens on the tail gyro/servo it could go into whats called the "wag of death" and its most times very hard to recover from, the heli will go down.

with the power on if theres more than 2mm or so of play in 2 of the 3 cyclic servo arms (geartrains) coupled with a the slower servo reaction time of the stockers that could be the cause of the wobbles even if periodic. But you should be able to run at least 9 to 10 'o clock gains on all 3 dials with-out the shakes. Right now it sounds like the stock servos are just starting to act up, unfortunantly this wobbleing will get worse the more the heli is flown as the soft brass output gears wear. One way to get rid of it is to turn all the gains down and another way to save the servos is to keep the gains down as low as possible to still be able to fly the heli comfortable but not overgained. With better servos installed the gains can be turned all the way up with no oscillations. Most people live with the little wobble here and there on this bird, but I couldnt and it doesnt sound like you can either........ so I see a servo upgrade in your future LOL.

I havent seen any servo related wobble or shakes since i replaced the cyclics on mine. But its real noticeable because its intermittant in the beginning, a bent shaft would be a full time vibe or shake or even some slop on the tail's scissor arms can make the tail wag. I had to dremel the silver bushings down because they were too big and there was slop in the connecting arms there. but were talking running a fine metal file maybe 5 times over the bushing to remove just that much tiny bit of material so the surfaces mate. Thats how sensitive this stuff can be. Hard to know without seeing the problem first hand but those are the things that come to mind.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
It sounds like servo slop on the 2 front servos, thats usually the primary cause of the wobble on this heli, barring any bent shafts which you most likey dont have since no crashes and the heli is newer.

Like the closed feedback loop example. Heli moves off axis, Gyro corrects, Servo moves, gyro corrects, servo moves again and overshoots, gyro senses the overcorrection and gives a signal to the servo to correct, overshoots etc. Maybe it will catch up and stop or maybe not, but The cyclic servos and the (X-Y) gyros are out of sync signal wise. If this happens on the tail gyro/servo it could go into whats called the "wag of death" and its most times very hard to recover from, the heli will go down.

with the power on if theres more than 2mm or so of play in 2 of the 3 cyclic servo arms (geartrains) coupled with a the slower servo reaction time of the stockers that could be the cause of the wobbles even if periodic. But you should be able to run at least 9 to 10 'o clock gains on all 3 dials with-out the shakes. Right now it sounds like the stock servos are just starting to act up, unfortunantly this wobbleing will get worse the more the heli is flown as the soft brass output gears wear. One way to get rid of it is to turn all the gains down and another way to save the servos is to keep the gains down as low as possible to still be able to fly the heli comfortable but not overgained. With better servos installed the gains can be turned all the way up with no oscillations. Most people live with the little wobble here and there on this bird, but I couldnt and it doesnt sound like you can either........ so I see a servo upgrade in your future LOL.

I havent seen any servo related wobble or shakes since i replaced the cyclics on mine. But its real noticeable because its intermittant in the beginning, a bent shaft would be a full time vibe or shake or even some slop on the tail's scissor arms can make the tail wag. I had to dremel the silver bushings down because they were too big and there was slop in the connecting arms there. but were talking running a fine metal file maybe 5 times over the bushing to remove just that much tiny bit of material so the surfaces mate. Thats how sensitive this stuff can be. Hard to know without seeing the problem first hand but those are the things that come to mind.
Thanks! It all makes sense.
Also, I'm doing the proper thing now that I have some vacation time in going back over the previous posts to answer some questions, hate to make you guy's explain this over and over.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 05:56 PM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Now if we could just find that 4th dimension Sagan was on about;

4th Dimension - Tesseract, 4th Dimension Made Easy - Carl Sagan (9 min 30 sec)
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Now if we could just find that 4th dimension Sagan was on about;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM
Right now I'm worried about two people...you for having that video...and me for finding it interresting
Carl has that special voice for explaining things.

It's 100 out side and I'm going to fly the V450...why...because I don't think it will get any cooler today.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 07:40 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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Joined Oct 2009
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Haha good one, and to think thats a bensonhurst ny accent and he smoked weed often? After watching the vid I can believe it LOL, I do some amature astronomy and sagan could explain extremely complex subjects very simply. Voyager 1 made the news as they think its ready to hit interstellar space, so I got caught in the stange side of U-tube again.......Shame he didnt fly RC.... they would have been some videos to watch.

Ok back to the V450 andyour regularly scheduled programs
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 08:25 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I didnt want to wreck for fear of making slop in my new align servos , i hope i didnt, . I may have slop in this scissor arms u speak of . But where are you talking about? So would the tail drive assembly make the top f the head wobble??
I wonder if i had main gear to tight? I hope i never wreck the 600! Its so perfect. I cant wait to test my new white blades on this heli. The black is hard tosee

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
It sounds like servo slop on the 2 front servos, thats usually the primary cause of the wobble on this heli, barring any bent shafts which you most likey dont have since no crashes and the heli is newer.

Like the closed feedback loop example. Heli moves off axis, Gyro corrects, Servo moves, gyro corrects, servo moves again and overshoots, gyro senses the overcorrection and gives a signal to the servo to correct, overshoots etc. Maybe it will catch up and stop or maybe not, but The cyclic servos and the (X-Y) gyros are out of sync signal wise. If this happens on the tail gyro/servo it could go into whats called the "wag of death" and its most times very hard to recover from, the heli will go down.

with the power on if theres more than 2mm or so of play in 2 of the 3 cyclic servo arms (geartrains) coupled with a the slower servo reaction time of the stockers that could be the cause of the wobbles even if periodic. But you should be able to run at least 9 to 10 'o clock gains on all 3 dials with-out the shakes. Right now it sounds like the stock servos are just starting to act up, unfortunantly this wobbleing will get worse the more the heli is flown as the soft brass output gears wear. One way to get rid of it is to turn all the gains down and another way to save the servos is to keep the gains down as low as possible to still be able to fly the heli comfortable but not overgained. With better servos installed the gains can be turned all the way up with no oscillations. Most people live with the little wobble here and there on this bird, but I couldnt and it doesnt sound like you can either........ so I see a servo upgrade in your future LOL.

I havent seen any servo related wobble or shakes since i replaced the cyclics on mine. But its real noticeable because its intermittant in the beginning, a bent shaft would be a full time vibe or shake or even some slop on the tail's scissor arms can make the tail wag. I had to dremel the silver bushings down because they were too big and there was slop in the connecting arms there. but were talking running a fine metal file maybe 5 times over the bushing to remove just that much tiny bit of material so the surfaces mate. Thats how sensitive this stuff can be. Hard to know without seeing the problem first hand but those are the things that come to mind.
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