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Old Jun 28, 2012, 02:00 PM
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The Ice 50 and Cooling Fan Lives!

All,

Finished soldering the connectors and took it out for a flight with the cooling fan and Ice 50 along for the ride.
I have the battery connector under the canopy so the canopy is installed after binding with the TX, makes the exterior clean looking.
I paid close attention to cable routing so there is very little or no interference with the canopy on canopy installation so it is quick and painless.
I enjoy hearing the cooling fan hum during the canopy installation, sounds like a small APU...batteries to power, turbines to speed, you know the old Bat Man saying.
It was a cool morning around 80 degrees and start up with the stock settings on the Ice was uneventful.
First flight was done just to heat things up, or attempt to, just hovered around with a few pitch pumps, which at the stock settings, the Ice tried to calm down. I'll have to adjust the Ice from "normal" to "intensive" current limiting for helicopter flight...am I correct 711?
After a 5 minute flight landed and pulled the throttle to cut off and was once again greeted by my "APU" humming in the back ground.
When I stuck my fingers under the canopy to unlatch the forward canopy pins and rear pins to remove the canopy and disconnect the battery, I could feel the heat blowing back out the rear, I thought that was a good sign for the cooling fan doing it's job.
Once the canopy was removed I placed my finger directly on the motor, it was warm but didn't make me retreat in pain like the old system, I could continue to hold my finger on it without discomfort. The battery was cooler than normal and of course the Ice 50 was a pleasant temp.
So are all these cooler temps a function of the Ice 50, cooling fan or open intake scoop. I think it's a combination, the Ice 50 has to be more efficient, but moving airflow is a good thing also. The only real way to check which one has the better cooling effect is to start over with stock and use some "temp tape" to gage the temperature of each component and do the mods one at a time and see the effect on temperature...but that sounds like way to much work for me.
The real test will be this week end in the 100 degree heat...then we'll see.
Side note: The Ice 50 cured my pulsating engine RPM.
All the mods I create and the mods I may try from another "engineer/pilot" are purely for entertainment and I am not suggesting you have to try this or anything else that is dreamed up. If you have no temp issues due to engine/ESC selection or your just plain lucky there is no need to even contemplate this mod, but for me, it certainly is a challenge and fun just to see what can be imagined and then created...and to top it all off...it fly's!

Fly safe...fly cool,
Viking
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 06:35 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
208 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Now these are some great subjects to talk about, glad you made it to this thread Vike.... ;

The stock 2200/25C lipo that comes with the V450 is ~183g, the 2250/45C thatís mounted in the pic I posted above is 207g. Since I have several lipo's with different C ratings and Mah's, they all center up differently on the mount depending on weight. These 2250's being the heaviest, they mount up the farthest. Usually I buy lipos in pairs so if I get one marked for best CG position, the matching other fits the same. Just wondering since I donít think the weight of the fan was posted, if thatís where the balance of the weight is, or maybe you are using a different lipo than stock. Come to think of it, that extra 5g on a fulcrum from the tail struts could be it. Because 5g at the back would probably multiply by the time it hit the front....Now it makes sense LOL

Speaking of knightheads/tail struts, you know Iím glad you bring this subject up. There was a guy on this thread last year who was strictly a scale flyer, who loved to do smooth FFF passes. It looked just like a real heli in some of the vids he posted up, using these really nice painted fiberglass fuselages from RC Aerodyne.
Now in order to get the V450, which is a Pod and Boom design, into these beautiful scale bodies (Fuse's), he would have to remove the tail struts. The thing is, at that point the frame was mechanically connected to the fuse and the rear section is usually a reinforced one piece unit with a magnetic front for access to the battery mount. So the tail had some extra support from the external fuse be it carbon or glass fiber. These scale fuselages, the good ones, add about 300-350g to the frame, so thatís some serious extra work for the electronics for sure.

Hereís the deal, with a 450-Pro Torque Tube Itís a known fact that if you donít pin the boom, even on a 450 size, itís possible you can throw the boom...... tail struts or not. Go bigger into the 500, 550, 600 etc size and it becomes even more of a possibility. This is why Align designs the boom block with a pin/screw on the side of the block for those helis. But thatís torque tube and the V450 is a belt drive tail. So whatís the purpose of these things for that application.....

Well for one, gawd forbid if one of those 2 cheap Chinese steel screws in the boom block snap because of an over torque vibration situation, whatís left to hold the boom in the frame? Stock out of the box, the knight heads on the V450 are only press fit to the carbon rods so they are basically useless anyway, like tuning forks, strumming along... Speaking of tuning forks what about harmonics, at low RPMs....The heli can actually shake itself to pieces given the right circumstances and the struts absorb some of that by changing the physical mass and frequency of the tail as the heli is ramped up past them. Thereís also the tail boom possibly staying connected to the helo in a crash, or at least dampening it, instead of whizzing by someone head .
Looking at the design of the V450's split frame, the boom goes into the smaller top sub- frame via the boom block. Which is then mechanically connected to the larger lower frame by aluminum standoffs. The struts add structural integrity to the lower frame with this additional mechanical connection from the boom, as the struts are directly connected from the boom to the lower frame/bottom plate with those long screws. And really without the boom supports, the only thing between the boom and the free air are 2 screws and a belt.

I think youíre looking at it from a.... "Its 2 pieces of 3mm carbon rod with 4 screws" POV. But actually when itís all screwed down tightly, Aluminum tips CA'd on and a boom brace added between them, the tail struts become mechanically rock solid and they definitely help with the tail and overall frames rigidity.

I'm sure youíve watched some of the more extreme 3D videos where guys are doing Piro Flips, Chaos, Tic Toc's and Rainbows, these are some of the most taxing maneuvers that can be done on an RC Heli as far as for the tail (and really the whole frame). What about bounce back, going into the gyros from hard stops, whereís the tension absorption even if itís static....... Glad you said this was your opinion because I bet some of the hard hitters on this forum would want some facts to back stuff like this up. Now if youíre just hovering in the yard then sure, check screws often and fly without them. But personally, I hesitate to post things like this on a beginner thread, because in all seriousness these things can kill someone. Not at all like a 120 size micro, and I know you working with full size birds can understand this,,,, Believe me there are a lot of risky things I do with these birds, and I donít post about it here. Donít want to give anyone any ideas....LOL

Now, surely I donít want to try to sell you into to putting them back on Lol I know your mind is made up, but I will say that the guys who do sell these things, meaning every single major manufacturer, up grader and 3rd party integrator, sells a Pod and Boom RC Helicopter with tail struts installed. And I'd venture to say if you started a poll thread that 98% of the guys that buy them install them/keep them installed and feel more comfortable with them installed.

As far as Piro Compensation, the 2702V has it built in although its hardcoded into the Firmware and not adjustable. This can be tested by spinning the heli clockwise around its axis and watching the swash plate, as it should tilt slightly. As far as the blade CG to the heli CG comparison, Iím not sure I follow you. Thereís 3 ways a blade can be balanced, Static, Dynamic and CG. Static is where the blade weight is even on both sides, dynamic is where it balances connected to the other blade, and the Cog of the blade if either forward or aft both chord wise and lengthwise of the blade (the center of the X ), depending if itís a specific Flybarless or Fly bar Blade thereís also another type of CoG, whether the blade favors tracking leading or trailing edge. Typically Flybarless blades are a little heavier than Fly bar blades to accentuate the gyroscopic effect and give the sensors a more accurate response in flight. Once a set of quality blades are balanced they should swing true. Same for the bird, if the heli is balanced for the correct Center of Gravity it will fly without needing extra correction or drifting and should piro and track correctly through the air in all maneuvers and straight in FFF.

Iím glad you like the mod for the tail control rod sleeve, I never liked the way that thing looked on the V, one thing I noticed since doing the mod is that the tail servo likes it better if you slightly angle one of the mounts so there is a tiny bit of friction induced onto the rod and itís not flapping around in the mount loosely. Other than that itís been working good, at least on the few test hops Iíve done so far. Still working on configuring the gyro gains for Gov mode and the rest of the settings. But I like to take my time with this stuff, no rush for me



I didnít think a 2650 could fit under the V's canopy, must be a tight one. Glad your flying and enjoying the V450 again!



The only thing I can think of is to use one of the Aux ports on the 2801, but the problem is the 2702V has no way to disable the onboard gyro. Maybe you can research it a little more. Try plugging the HH gyro into an AUX port and route the gear switch to it in the menu, then plug the tail servo into the gyro and see if it will initialize. As long as the tail servo get the signal from the external gyro and the gyro gets power along with the control signal from the radio, it may work. you may only get HH though and no rate mode since there wont be a way to switch it between the 2....It would take some tinkering for sure. All else fails go commando...if you can handle a gyroless tail, that takes some skill.



Itís a good thing Im a computer guy and can type fast with a spellchecker fixing my chicken scratch... No need to be sorry were all wrong once in awhile. Itís the guys who ask for help all the time and then do what they want anyway instead that I love . But that weight did sound a little light in the loafers for a V450. It's still a few grams under par.



Nice job Viking, sheís looking good with that spoiler there, canít wait to see what you come up with. The wiring must be a little tight but the good thing is Castle uses a high quality 13g silicone wire that bends easy and doesnít scratch or gouge so much. Thinking my extra 25g or so is coming from the larger lipo that I use with this bird. But yes adding the ESC is an automatic 30g or so additional weight. Good luck hope to hear the good reports soon!
Good Idea, I'll give that a try & see if I can get it to initialize. I originally learned with an old non-gyro tail. I can't say I learned much from it other than how long it takes to get parts after a crash. I think I'll keep working at it until I get the gyro working. Either that or get a reciever that works properly & forget about the external gyro. My main goal was to get all my birds flying on a single 2801 so that is why I was trying so hard you use that Walkera reciever. I have my spiced up CB180Z, my 450D01 and my Mini CP all working on there now. Just the clone to go, which of course will be the tough one.
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 08:19 PM
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To Strut or Not to Strut...That is the Question!

WOW
If the 450 Pro has a tendency to throw booms, all I can say is poor design, and somebody didn't do the necessary inspections to keep it safe.

Have fun, fly safe,
Viking
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 10:07 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Well i just dropped the wallet on a set of Savox SH-0257MG servos.

The guy at my LHS has me convinced. That that HE is convinced that the Savox are better than the Align. Though I'll have no way of knowing till i get some Align servos too. But i did find one post on another forum somewhere in which a person was also recommending the Savox over Align. But I'm pretty much thinking "6 of one half dozen of the other". Who cares right? But the Savox are cheaper than the Align by a few dollars. Same with replacement gears. Besides if i know a company is rebranding another MFG.'s product. I'd rather just buy from the OEM.

Also, Lucky ME! Savoxusa.com is located or ships from Florida, and the shipping was free for 7 day ground. Since I'm in Florida I'm thinking it should only take a day or 2. Though i did have to pay like $6 sales oppression.
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Well i just dropped the wallet on a set of Savox SH-0257MG servos.

The guy at my LHS has me convinced. That that HE is convinced that the Savox are better than the Align. Though I'll have no way of knowing till i get some Align servos too. But i did find one post on another forum somewhere in which a person was also recommending the Savox over Align. But I'm pretty much thinking "6 of one half dozen of the other". Who cares right? But the Savox are cheaper than the Align by a few dollars. Same with replacement gears. Besides if i know a company is rebranding another MFG.'s product. I'd rather just buy from the OEM.

Also, Lucky ME! Savoxusa.com is located or ships from Florida, and the shipping was free for 7 day ground. Since I'm in Florida I'm thinking it should only take a day or 2. Though i did have to pay like $6 sales oppression.
Did they give any reasons as to how they were better?

Viking
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 10:53 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I have had 3 walkera helis , i would say servos are there weak point. Mg or not. You will love the difference
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 11:04 PM
IHW Heli Division
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Did they give any reasons as to how they were better?

Viking
Well in the thread i found, where ever it was. Which I am currently reguarding as "hear-say" The guy was saying something about the Savox being a true 6v servo. He sort of implied that the Align will burn up easier or something like that. Not that, that makes any difference for me right now running a 5v system. But the guy at my LHS seemed to think they last longer without burning out the motors also. He also said they perform better but I've looked and I can't see how on paper, TBH.

Although, looking at sevodatabase.com specs there are some slight differences. First thing i noticed was Align's 410m servo is 0.02oz lighter. or approx. 0.6g lighter. But also the dimensions are slightly different which could account for the weight difference. However the Align servo is actually slightly larger in size but lighter in weight. So I'm not really sure how to interpret this but right off the bat i want to speculate that they have different motors inside them. So It's looking like their may be some truth to this? But regardless of performance or any other changes between the 2 servos. They are slightly different in shape. We'll see how they fit when i get them. Of course all my research and speculation is currently based on servodatabase.com. So it's also assuming these specs are from the MFG and not some random guy with a caliper.

Servodatabase.com links for reference:

http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/savox/sh-0257

http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/align/ds410m

Also here is the link to savoxusa.com for the servos and their specs.
https://www.savoxusa.com/ProductDeta...e=savsh0257mg3
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Well i just dropped the wallet on a set of Savox SH-0257MG servos.

The guy at my LHS has me convinced. That that HE is convinced that the Savox are better than the Align. Though I'll have no way of knowing till i get some Align servos too. But i did find one post on another forum somewhere in which a person was also recommending the Savox over Align. But I'm pretty much thinking "6 of one half dozen of the other". Who cares right? But the Savox are cheaper than the Align by a few dollars. Same with replacement gears. Besides if i know a company is rebranding another MFG.'s product. I'd rather just buy from the OEM.

Also, Lucky ME! Savoxusa.com is located or ships from Florida, and the shipping was free for 7 day ground. Since I'm in Florida I'm thinking it should only take a day or 2. Though i did have to pay like $6 sales oppression.
Let us know how the Savox works out and if you have to change any settings on your radio to make it work.
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 11:40 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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ClubHeli in in the Savox Servo business these days...today as a matter of fact I got the email. http://www.clubheli.com/Servos-and-Parts_c_166.html
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Torch8 View Post
Let us know how the Savox works out and if you have to change any settings on your radio to make it work.
Will do, I'm sure some reversing of the gyros and TX switches will be needed. But I'm positive that HeliFlyer711 has that info covered in his build log. Since the Savox should operate the same as the Aligns he is using.All the info should be relevant.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 12:19 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
WOW
If the 450 Pro has a tendency to throw booms, all I can say is poor design, and somebody didn't do the necessary inspections to keep it safe.

Have fun, fly safe,
Viking
Which is why the Align TT design includes a screw that goes into the side of the boom on 550 size and above and its also recommended mod for the 450 Pro. The tail support rods are there as a backup. Its a function of the Torque Tube design, where without the pin installed and definately without the tail support rods mounted, the boom can actually be pulled out of the frame by hand.

If you really want to investigate this further, dont take my word for it... here are some 450-Pro build vids that show it in more detail, look at the tail section of the build;
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=132747

I get that your a full scale heli mechanic, a few times now and to be honest these RC helis probably look strange to you in some ways. That probably being the issue..... more-so than the 5g in weight savings or percieved lack of functionality of the tail struts. I also get that in having that full scale experience, Im sure you realize there are things that these Pod and Boom RC helis do that typical full size scale helis normally dont do.

I could go into it in great detail again, of why its a good idea to keep those supports on even with a belt drive tail, or go into my personal background to explian why your views may be skewed off a bit here. But....... theres 2 things I dont like to do 1) is argue & 2) is brag in general. I tend to stay away from both because Id rather brag by helping people and giving them a chance at some accurate information in this hobby. Hope thats ok The bottom line is its your heli and you can do anything you want with it. But the way you explained your position in your post....I had to clarify mine, as you may know, I have a Fusano boom brace installed and recommend CA'g the aluminum tips on the tail support rods on the V450's tail - for added support and vibration dampening.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=14
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...93&postcount=7

Note: The boom in the pic below seperated from the block even with the screw installed into it, just from tension forces, if you notice theres a piece of the boom still in the block and a small cut where the screw used to be. But one boom brace is still there keeping it attached to the heli....

On another note;
Here are the current ICE50 Settings on the V450 with Gov mode off, hope it helps at least for a comparison POV.

Here is the dump file for my current Fixed endpoint setup on the ICE 50, the only thing I changed was the BEC to 5V. Usually run 5.8v with the 410's. Some of the settings arent used those have strikeouts. The first thing to do is setup fixed endpoints in the TX travel adjust menu under THRO.

Hex55: 85
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Motor Start Power: 100
Direction: Forward (*)
Current Limiting: Insensitive (80A)
Brake Strength: 0
BEC Voltage: 5.0125

Power-On Beep: Disabled
Motor Timing: 0
Data Log Enabled: 255
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Fixed-Endpoints
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 12
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 2
Head Speed Change Rate: 5
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Simple
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 3
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 11.1000
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 10.714
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 3500
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 6
Desired Head Speed 1: Optional
Desired Head Speed 2: Optional
Desired Head Speed 3: Optional
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Which is why the Align TT design includes a screw that goes into the side of the boom on 550 size and above and its also recommended mod for the 450 Pro. The tail support rods are there as a backup. Its a function of the Torque Tube design, where without the pin installed and definately without the tail support rods mounted, the boom can actually be pulled out of the frame by hand.

If you really want to investigate this further, dont take my word for it... here are some 450-Pro build vids that show it in more detail, look at the tail section of the build;
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=132747

I get that your a full scale heli mechanic, a few times now and to be honest these RC helis probably look strange to you in some ways. That probably being the issue..... more-so than the 5g in weight savings or percieved lack of functionality of the tail struts. I also get that in having that full scale experience, Im sure you realize there are things that these Pod and Boom RC helis do that typical full size scale helis normally dont do.

I could go into it in great detail again, of why its a good idea to keep those supports on even with a belt drive tail, or go into my personal background to explian why your views may be skewed off a bit here. But....... theres 2 things I dont like to do 1) is argue & 2) is brag in general. I tend to stay away from both because Id rather brag by helping people and giving them a chance at some accurate information in this hobby. Hope thats ok The bottom line is its your heli and you can do anything you want with it. But the way you explained your position in your post....I had to clarify mine, as you may know, I have a Fusano boom brace installed and recommend CA'g the aluminum tips on the tail support rods on the V450's tail - for added support and vibration dampening.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=14
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...93&postcount=7

Note: The boom in the pic below seperated from the block even with the screw installed into it, just from tension forces, if you notice theres a piece of the boom still in the block and a small cut where the screw used to be. But one boom brace is still there keeping it attached to the heli....

On another note;
Here are the current ICE50 Settings on the V450 with Gov mode off, hope it helps at least for a comparison POV.

Here is the dump file for my current Fixed endpoint setup on the ICE 50, the only thing I changed was the BEC to 5V. Usually run 5.8v with the 410's. Some of the settings arent used those have strikeouts. The first thing to do is setup fixed endpoints in the TX travel adjust menu under THRO.

Hex55: 85
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Motor Start Power: 100
Direction: Forward (*)
Current Limiting: Insensitive (80A)
Brake Strength: 0
BEC Voltage: 5.0125

Power-On Beep: Disabled
Motor Timing: 0
Data Log Enabled: 255
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Fixed-Endpoints
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 12
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 2
Head Speed Change Rate: 5
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Simple
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 3
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 11.1000
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 10.714
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 3500
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 6
Desired Head Speed 1: Optional
Desired Head Speed 2: Optional
Desired Head Speed 3: Optional
Point taken Heliflyer711,

One of the dangers of communicateing sight unseen is how the written word is preceved, we would all benifit from face to face comunication to understand each others viewpoints better.
Thanks for the photo of the failed boom tube, typical a fracture would occur at a high stress point like that (right at the boom attach point) with a hole drilled in it. IMO the screw threads nicked the hole causeing a stress point for the crack to begin from and failure to occur. Goes back to my first comment, poor design, the hole for the locking screw should have been placed further away from the point of stress and they wouldn't have the issue. Makes me think of the early days of aviation when everyone flew with struts on thier wings, it was a known fact that everyone knew until someone took them off because of improvements in design but everyone still said, it can't be done, you'll crash! My point being, if things are thought out properly, problems can be avoided, but one has to think first, not just do.
In dealing with these little versions of the bigger I am amazed at how they are exactly alike in every way, same issues, same types of failures.
Thanks for the Ice info, it's reall a remarkable ESC and I am looking forward to exploring it's abilities.

One last thing, I list my back ground as an A&P in my posts to bring validity to my opionions and views, I find it important to know the background of the person who creates the post you are reading in that it gives "weight" to thier ideas. When looking at your posts and the numer of posts given, it gives your post's that "weight". No one knows me from Adam, I wasn't bragging or throwing it in anyones face that I am a life long aircraft mechanic, just trying to give a person who doesn't know me an idea of my abilities.

It's been fun, be safe.
Viking
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 09:19 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
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I totally respect that, you know i replied to your original post btw, I do a little at a time with the "more important" subjects in answering them on a small tablet that I keep by the TV, this way I dont get into it with the wife always at the computer or in the heli room never giving her attention. But then you edited your post. So I apologize if it seemed a bit harsh. Im not in the business of being a Jagg Off or pissing people off. I'll walk away 1st No harm no foul, internet communication...I try to just stick to facts and leave the opinions alone, this way the lines are clear. But no one is perfect and no man an island unto himself. When someone says they have it all together thats a big red flag for me in general. We all need each other from the guy who just came in to the guy who remembers his first Kraft reed relay transmitter. I've been totally stumped by guys just coming in, in the past. And its amazing how people think, even with very little experience by just using common sense. Something thats not so common these days IMO. The rest goes without saying...

The pic is an EXI 450 with a home made boom pin, as part of the failure it was speculated that the hole drilled and the screw used by the guy that did it was part of the cause, but without metallurgy test we will never know. Regardless of the failure's origin and its modality, the point was that without the boom supports attached, the boom would have been thrown from the heli. Where? now thats a good question. It's a common mod and like was mentioned a function of the TT design, these boom mounts are standard equipment on all modern RC Pod and Boom sport/pro heli designs. The 550 and above size get the factory pin. The trex struts actually hang way further back than the clones typically do, and the support system is much more beefier with aluminum mounts and factory glued rods.

Please dont see Walkera as indicative of the better quality helis available as far as RC, and due to that realize they need to be made even safer because of this mediocre quality.

Real helis dont have tail struts, instead they have trusses built into the booms and its of course are designed very different. Very surprised to hear you say this. The differences are mostly in rotor blade design, structural capability, method of articulation of the rotor head, tail rotor for efficiency - not for power on most, power density, disc loading and energy density. Only highly specialized full scale helicpters can loop and roll, but none can sustain inverted flight for any length of time even to this very day, they are designed for vertical flight and transportation, very different indeed. Full scale fly for hours/rc flies for mins that right there should say a lot.

Ok good enough, thanks for the laughs, now as far as power to weight to post ratio.... Wow It's been 3 years on this particular site with this particular user name and Ive never posted my background in RC to have to give cause. But if it helps you understand where Im coming from, then here goes, one time deal;

A little about me, I come from an EE background but when I got out of school the PC boom (not that boom) for corporate was taking off like a rocket, and I got in close to the beginning of it in 1990 with Windows 3 no less. Meaning Im more of a computer geek these days than an electronics guy and do network design by trade 21 years in. Still know my way around an electron or 2 though.

As far as RC experience, I flew my first control line Cox PT-19 trainer when I was 11, it had a surestart .049 engine in it and it was a real finger buster. A year later, I built my 1st balsa model plane, covered it with the old mans help and have been hooked into RC flight ever since. About 4 years ago I got into helis, sold all the planes and dropped all things without rotary wings, strictly a heliflyer now . I currently have 10's of K invested in this heli hobby and have had over 40 helis cross my bench over these past 4 years, but I live in the city now. A heavily populated one, 11,000 people per sq mi. and so there really is no place to go beside the clubs to comfortably fly anything larger than a 450. Im a member of one in S Jersey and AMA registered, but I dont get there as much as I like, as life would have it. The 450 is a good size for me to throw in the trunk and go behind philly airport and chill or take with on road trips. TGIF Total time in RC wing and rotary wing'd flight 31 years (Big Deal) Lol..... todays stuff is totally different from the days of old, and a guy from 1990 would be totally lost in 2012. Its what your dealing with today, right now in your hands that counts when it comes to RC.

Still learning by being open minded and willing to listen to those who have tread the path before me. -HF711
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 12:00 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,997 Posts
Paying a little more attention...

So, here she is, freshly post tail sleeve mod, sitting on the scales.
603g without battery
784g with
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 06:02 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,321 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
So, here she is, freshly post tail sleeve mod, sitting on the scales.
603g without battery
784g with
The tail sleeve can't even possibly weigh a gram or 2 right? I'm considering doing mine with small sections of aluminum tubing. Only because I'm assuming that over time the plastic, being cut into small pieces will be susceptible to cracking and becoming brittle over time in the florida heat and moisture. Causing dry rot. Like the one that came on my heli was (see picture). The aluminum bits don't even weigh a gram together i don't think.
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