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Old Jun 21, 2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Blades off, main and tail, bench test the servos whilst measuring the current draw/voltage and then run it and test again - see if it'll show a large variation anywhere.

That is the next logical step.
In thinking about this further I guess it's possible that a failure of a servo in hover could cause the the gyro to react as if correcting for a disturbance like a gust of wind and keep the ship in trim making it appear to be a "collective" action which would affect RPM, unless I'm thinking about this to hard.
Bench check with blades removed is a good idea, after finishing the visual checks of the servo wiring I'll start there.

Helicopters....full size or model...there's always something.

Viking
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 11:09 AM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Guy's,

About 1 min. into my first flight tonight my V450 started having RPM issues in that the RPM would pulsate up and down intermittenly. Got it down without damage but I won't be flying it again until it's corrected.
My guess would be ESC as it was very, very hot after the flight. It's usually hot but seemed hotter than normal.
If this is my problem, what ESC do you guy's recommend and will I also need a new motor or can I get by with just an ESC?

Viking
Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
That is the next logical step.
In thinking about this further I guess it's possible that a failure of a servo in hover could cause the the gyro to react as if correcting for a disturbance like a gust of wind and keep the ship in trim making it appear to be a "collective" action which would affect RPM, unless I'm thinking about this to hard.
Bench check with blades removed is a good idea, after finishing the visual checks of the servo wiring I'll start there.

Helicopters....full size or model...there's always something.

Viking
From what you described, the pulsing up and down could also be a warning sign of the stock ESC either going into a thermal shutdown mode or a soft cutoff mode from low lipo voltage. Right now its 100+ outside where I live, So the weather depending on where you are located this time of year, could have given the ESC a good headstart into thermal shutdown.

The thermal protection on the stock ESC has a few modes, soft cutoff eventually going into hard cutoff for over heating & hard cutoff for short out. So far you've had the soft cutoff come in early and landed with power still on.

The other ESC cutoff type is from a Low lipo voltage, same effect... Rotor/Motor power pulses as a warning to land before all power is lost due to dead battery. Are you sure your Lipo was fully charged and do you have a way to test each cells voltage?

Safely.....Using the same lipo, run some test indoors with the heli spooled up at 0 pitch, skids held down with a couple rulers through them and some thick textbooks on either side holding the heli down and keeping it straight....slowly introduce some pitch (just enough to give it a slight pull) and see if you can duplicate the problem. If the ESC does fail, try a new fully charged lipo. Its probably not the problem but at least it can be eliminated.

There are guys here on this thread that the ESC smoked on the 1st spoolup, and others who have been flying the V450 into mild 3D for over a year with original stock ESC. Unfortunantly though once something electronic on a heli starts acting up, its hard to trust it again.........

So 4 things;
The battery may not have been fully charged (Walkera RTF chargers do ocassionally act up), the Lipo could be going bad under load (one or more of the cells). The ESC went into soft thermal shutdown mode premature due to outside ambient temperatures (Unless location is Alaska ) or it's an intermittant ESC overheat failure at which point try to duplicate failure in testing with the heli tied down to confirm the ESC is defective.

Although its impossible to know the exact problem for sure, from what you described those are the things that come to mind. As far as the cyclic and tail servo's overheating, wireing, ESC wireing, motor wireing, shorting etc.. thats always a good thing to check also on the V450, because there can be sloppy solder work. Especially in the back of the stock servos depending on which ones you have v1 or v2. But a short would be more of a total shutdown situation mid air and then a crash. At least you knew to land the heli and power it off before it got that far, your ahead of the game just from that right there....no damage .

One last thing, if you do find it defective, it cant hurt to contact the dealer you bought it from since the heli is pretty new to see if they will send you a new one. I know some dealers will do that easily and some are a PITA but its worth a shot. I upgraded the ESC right away because I wasnt comfortable with it being running so hot during the summer months. Hope that gives you a few more ideas.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:38 PM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Ok the only video of motor pinion installation is with a press, whats the next best way? I dont qant to break a new motor.
The pinion is set with a grub screw no press needed, IIRC there is a flat spot on the shaft for it to set on, probably not a bad idea to use some blue loctite on the scew threads 1st though. Easy thing to do no worries....just make sure the top of the pignon is level with the main gear/top of motor shaft for the V450 install and the gear mesh is set right....Oh yeah and another thing I have the motor base cocked a little for the rotation so the pinion hits the gears teeth in the beginning and backs away upon release, thats getting a bit anal but I like my stuff tight, hasnt come back to bite me yet

A picture says a 1,000 words
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 04:01 PM
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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Perfcet , now just waiting ,
I need more videos to keep me occupied.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
The pinion is set with a grub screw no press needed, IIRC there is a flat spot on the shaft for it to set on, probably not a bad idea to use some blue loctite on the scew threads 1st though. Easy thing to do no worries....just make sure the top of the pignon is level with the main gear/top of motor shaft for the V450 install and the gear mesh is set right....Oh yeah and another thing I have the motor base cocked a little for the rotation so the pinion hits the gears teeth in the beginning and backs away upon release, thats getting a bit anal but I like my stuff tight, hasnt come back to bite me yet

A picture says a 1,000 words
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
From what you described, the pulsing up and down could also be a warning sign of the stock ESC either going into a thermal shutdown mode or a soft cutoff mode from low lipo voltage. Right now its 100+ outside where I live, So the weather depending on where you are located this time of year, could have given the ESC a good headstart into thermal shutdown.

The thermal protection on the stock ESC has a few modes, soft cutoff eventually going into hard cutoff for over heating & hard cutoff for short out. So far you've had the soft cutoff come in early and landed with power still on.

The other ESC cutoff type is from a Low lipo voltage, same effect... Rotor/Motor power pulses as a warning to land before all power is lost due to dead battery. Are you sure your Lipo was fully charged and do you have a way to test each cells voltage?

Safely.....Using the same lipo, run some test indoors with the heli spooled up at 0 pitch, skids held down with a couple rulers through them and some thick textbooks on either side holding the heli down and keeping it straight....slowly introduce some pitch (just enough to give it a slight pull) and see if you can duplicate the problem. If the ESC does fail, try a new fully charged lipo. Its probably not the problem but at least it can be eliminated.

There are guys here on this thread that the ESC smoked on the 1st spoolup, and others who have been flying the V450 into mild 3D for over a year with original stock ESC. Unfortunantly though once something electronic on a heli starts acting up, its hard to trust it again.........

So 4 things;
The battery may not have been fully charged (Walkera RTF chargers do ocassionally act up), the Lipo could be going bad under load (one or more of the cells). The ESC went into soft thermal shutdown mode premature due to outside ambient temperatures (Unless location is Alaska ) or it's an intermittant ESC overheat failure at which point try to duplicate failure in testing with the heli tied down to confirm the ESC is defective.

Although its impossible to know the exact problem for sure, from what you described those are the things that come to mind. As far as the cyclic and tail servo's overheating, wireing, ESC wireing, motor wireing, shorting etc.. thats always a good thing to check also on the V450, because there can be sloppy solder work. Especially in the back of the stock servos depending on which ones you have v1 or v2. But a short would be more of a total shutdown situation mid air and then a crash. At least you knew to land the heli and power it off before it got that far, your ahead of the game just from that right there....no damage .

One last thing, if you do find it defective, it cant hurt to contact the dealer you bought it from since the heli is pretty new to see if they will send you a new one. I know some dealers will do that easily and some are a PITA but its worth a shot. I upgraded the ESC right away because I wasnt comfortable with it being running so hot during the summer months. Hope that gives you a few more ideas.
I believe you may be right with the possible battery issue. I remembered this morning that my M120 long ago had the same in flight issue with pulsing motor causing 4 to 5 foot excursions in altitude while in a hover. It was the lipo.
I did go ahead with the servo examination and found a couple of wiring issues with bare wire crossing at soldered points apearing to touch, seperated them, and wire routed over the servo motor being pinched by the servo cover, rerouted those. Other than that I did take the ESC heat shrink off and examine it closely, all solderd points were done very well, it all looked very good so I am installing heat shrink at both ends for mounting purposes and leaving the center section open for improved air flow over the ESC heat sink.
It's 97 degrees here now and I am going out to fly after another bench check...we will see.

Viking
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Flight Check in 90+ temps good.

OK, it flew perfectly, no jumps or wobbles.

So what cured it?
Lipo had a good charge.
ESC now has better cooling flow.
Proper wire seperation in the servos.

Pick one

At least I can sleep well tonight.

Viking
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 06:29 PM
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All of them? ;-)
Glad you can sleep!
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 06:59 PM
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All of them? ;-)
Glad you can sleep!
Good guess

Viking
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 10:28 PM
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Tarot Zyx

Decided to go with Tarot Zyx-s with Orange DSM2 rx on my V450D01, after my RX2702 setup button got flatten out (Guess I was pressing too hard). Stock V450d01 ESC should fit onto the Tarot Zyx-s right?
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Torch8 View Post
Decided to go with Tarot Zyx-s with Orange DSM2 rx on my V450D01, after my RX2702 setup button got flatten out (Guess I was pressing too hard). Stock V450d01 ESC should fit onto the Tarot Zyx-s right?
I am not sure V450 stock ESC fit zyx-s but do you have spektrum or JR tx. orange rx is not compatible with walkera tx and won't bind.

Also, you have to calibrate new spektrum/JR tx throttle stick /w stock V450 ESC.

finally, I know there is an issue zxy-s with oragne rx some pilots experience.
http://www.helifreak.com/archive/ind.../t-415686.html
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...12179&page=187
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wlee1017 View Post
I am not sure V450 stock ESC fit zyx-s but do you have spektrum or JR tx. orange rx is not compatible with walkera tx and won't bind.

Also, you have to calibrate new spektrum/JR tx throttle stick /w stock V450 ESC.

finally, I know there is an issue zxy-s with oragne rx some pilots experience.
http://www.helifreak.com/archive/ind.../t-415686.html
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...12179&page=187
Thanks, I'm go cancel it, maybe have to stay with another V2702.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
OK, it flew perfectly, no jumps or wobbles.

So what cured it?
Lipo had a good charge.
ESC now has better cooling flow.
Proper wire seperation in the servos.

Pick one

At least I can sleep well tonight.

Viking

That's good to hear! The heat here in Florida is one of the reasons I wanted to install a heat sink on the stock ESC. It has a linear BEC and that alone will cause it to heat up. That with the summer heat and no effective cooling with that thick jacket walkera slaps on their ESC. As far as your battery, i have a 2S pack for my 4f200 that I can fly very lightly and hover around. But if i strain it, all of a sudden the motor starts to cut out or rev strangely. I only use the pack for bench testing now. Now that some time has passed the one side of the pack is all nice and puffy too.

My new hobbywing ESC arrived today and i soldered on my XT60 connector on for my batteries. Wonderfully, it came with the bullet connectors for the motor pre-installed and nice color coded shrink wrap on the ends. The arrangement matched walkera's layout as far as wire color placement exactly. So it was basically a drop in replacement after putting on my connector. I have not spooled it up yet or anything. The only programming i have changed so far is startup from normal to soft. I'm hoping default timing (15 deg.) will be okay with my Turbo ace 804 motor. I might kick on the flood lights and give it a hover in the dark tonight. But likely i'll just wait till i can take it to the field tomorrow afternoon.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
That's good to hear! The heat here in Florida is one of the reasons I wanted to install a heat sink on the stock ESC. It has a linear BEC and that alone will cause it to heat up. That with the summer heat and no effective cooling with that thick jacket walkera slaps on their ESC. As far as your battery, i have a 2S pack for my 4f200 that I can fly very lightly and hover around. But if i strain it, all of a sudden the motor starts to cut out or rev strangely. I only use the pack for bench testing now. Now that some time has passed the one side of the pack is all nice and puffy too.

My new hobbywing ESC arrived today and i soldered on my XT60 connector on for my batteries. Wonderfully, it came with the bullet connectors for the motor pre-installed and nice color coded shrink wrap on the ends. The arrangement matched walkera's layout as far as wire color placement exactly. So it was basically a drop in replacement after putting on my connector. I have not spooled it up yet or anything. The only programming i have changed so far is startup from normal to soft. I'm hoping default timing (15 deg.) will be okay with my Turbo ace 804 motor. I might kick on the flood lights and give it a hover in the dark tonight. But likely i'll just wait till i can take it to the field tomorrow afternoon.
Good luck with your new ESC, let us know how it works out. I'm glad I finaly took the heat shrink "coat" of my stock ESC, it's one more of those "what were they thinking" episodes. Install a nice big aluminum plate to carry away heat then package it all up in a big piece of heat shrink to hold the heat in! I was glad to see they bonded the heat sink in so the heat shrink I did install wasn't nessesary in that regard but it did protect the large solder points at either end and gave me a surface for the double sided tape to secure it to the frame. Now when you look at the ESC you can see an air gap between the heat sink and mosfets for air to circulate, that just has to help with the heat issue and also the heat sinks ability to disapate heat directly off it's surface and not be trapped by the heat shrink.
Time will tell but a least I feel the ESC has a fighting chance now in this Virginia heat.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on my issue, I do appreciate it.

Viking
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
I believe you may be right with the possible battery issue. I remembered this morning that my M120 long ago had the same in flight issue with pulsing motor causing 4 to 5 foot excursions in altitude while in a hover. It was the lipo.
I did go ahead with the servo examination and found a couple of wiring issues with bare wire crossing at soldered points apearing to touch, seperated them, and wire routed over the servo motor being pinched by the servo cover, rerouted those. Other than that I did take the ESC heat shrink off and examine it closely, all solderd points were done very well, it all looked very good so I am installing heat shrink at both ends for mounting purposes and leaving the center section open for improved air flow over the ESC heat sink.
It's 97 degrees here now and I am going out to fly after another bench check...we will see.

Viking
Glad to hear..... funny how these things happen. Im going to try to get part 2 of the 2702V head setup/tail setup uploaded and posted to τΣ today. It's too dam hot to do anything else. ∟☼∟
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Glad to hear..... funny how these things happen. Im going to try to get part 2 of the 2702V head setup/tail setup uploaded and posted to τΣ today. It's too dam hot to do anything else. ∟☼∟
I think I saw you post info on this before, but I can't find it. Can I run the RX2702V on 6V?
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