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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Joined Sep 2010
484 Posts
For first, never play with the servo end point on a CCPM heli trying to tame down the stick, the only thing you are doing is putting different amount of servo travel on a system wich require same travel for all the servo, for tossing around or doing low hovering it will be not noticeable, but as soon as you will start to fly better, you will see the heli goes to unexpected direction and probably lost the control.

To tame down the pitch it's easy, go to the pitch curve, they are there for that purpose, it's even more accurate since you can adjust 5 point instead of only 3 point for the cyclic expo, then mold your center curve according to what you want, you will probably need to readjust you throttle curve also.

Also, from your video you seems to have a crazy head speed, it sound scary, it will not help to be smooth.

edit: for interaction, if you are in the 10 to 12 pitch and the same for cyclic, you are fine, just make sure there is no binding anywhere at full pitch + cyclic.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 04:14 PM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
Yeah, for some reason I can't get 10 pitch and 10 cyclic without interactions on the v450. The best I could get is 8 pitch and 8 cyclic with no elevator-only or aileron-only interactions. However even this will produce interactions if I hold elevator AND aileron AND full pitch. Is this normal?

After measuring cyclic pitch in both directions my current swashmix values are:
Elev: 37%
Aile: 33%
Pit.: 43%

So yes, for some reason I have more aileron than elevator travel. I'm going to make a video to show it in action. I'm wondering if I didn't do something right during RX setup...
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 06:38 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutyafal View Post
Yeah, for some reason I can't get 10 pitch and 10 cyclic without interactions on the v450. The best I could get is 8 pitch and 8 cyclic with no elevator-only or aileron-only interactions. However even this will produce interactions if I hold elevator AND aileron AND full pitch. Is this normal?

After measuring cyclic pitch in both directions my current swashmix values are:
Elev: 37%
Aile: 33%
Pit.: 43%

So yes, for some reason I have more aileron than elevator travel. I'm going to make a video to show it in action. I'm wondering if I didn't do something right during RX setup...

If you add those all up you are at 113%. You can't exceed 100% without swash interaction. What is your SWAATS setting in initial setup? The total of ELE + AIL + PIT can't exceed the initial setup values (Max 100%). If you need more travel use the end point travel on your TX (this should be equal for all servos) or increase throw mechanically. This needs to be done before the RX setup procedure.
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Last edited by ri0grand; Feb 01, 2011 at 07:34 PM.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 06:49 PM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
I did the initial setup with 100% swashmix values all around. Then reduced to the above for minimal interactions. I took some videos and will post tomorrow.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 07:15 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutyafal View Post
I did the initial setup with 100% swashmix values all around. Then reduced to the above for minimal interactions. I took some videos and will post tomorrow.
Ok your total ELE + AIL + PIT shouldn't exceed 100% or you will get interaction. Your total is 113% (37 +33 +43)
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 09:07 PM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
Ok your total ELE + AIL + PIT shouldn't exceed 100% or you will get interaction. Your total is 113% (37 +33 +43)
Is it that common to encounter full PIT + full AIL + full ELE all at once? I would have thought you wouldn't do that in anything but the most violent 3D.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 10:18 PM
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Wylie TX
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Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Is it that common to encounter full PIT + full AIL + full ELE all at once? I would have thought you wouldn't do that in anything but the most violent 3D.

Full pitch and cyclic (at least in one axis} probably happens in a fast flip. If you are trying to avoid any swash interaction at the limits of travel thats the procedure.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 05:51 AM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
Ok your total ELE + AIL + PIT shouldn't exceed 100% or you will get interaction. Your total is 113% (37 +33 +43)
Yeah, that makes sens I guess. The strange thing is, on my 1#A I have -65, -65, -50 in swashmix and no interactions at all. In fact the servo arms seem to travel in a greater arc on the 1#A than on the v450. TVA is 100% on all channels on both birds.

It probably has to do with the extra RX setup and how it calibrates travel on the v450. I know I'm probably splitting hair here and most likely wouldn't ever actually use the full pitch and cyclic at once, I'm just trying to understand if I'm doing this right.

I've posted a quick vid to show how much swash movement I got now and the small interaction I still have. This is with 8 pitch and 7 cyclic for a total of 15 deflection with the above swashmix values. (I might change that after more testing)

I'm just wondering if anybody is getting more on this bird (without servo binding) and if so how?

In the vid each time either aileron, elevator or both held and then the collective is moved up and down without moving right stick. You can see the worst binding at 0:36. Does this swash movement range look typical to everyone?

Walkera v450d01 swash interaction (0 min 47 sec)
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 03:08 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutyafal View Post
Yeah, for some reason I can't get 10 pitch and 10 cyclic without interactions on the v450. The best I could get is 8 pitch and 8 cyclic with no elevator-only or aileron-only interactions. However even this will produce interactions if I hold elevator AND aileron AND full pitch. Is this normal?

After measuring cyclic pitch in both directions my current swashmix values are:
Elev: 37%
Aile: 33%
Pit.: 43%

So yes, for some reason I have more aileron than elevator travel. I'm going to make a video to show it in action. I'm wondering if I didn't do something right during RX setup...
Why do you want cyclic and collective to be 10 degress? 12 collective and 7-8 cyclic would be more typical, wouldn't it?
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 04:47 PM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
True, but there is no way I can increase collective to 12 without serious binding issues. Oh well, I can sit here and ponder over it all I want but ultimately I'll see how things go once I start to fly it outside proper. When I find it lacking somewhere I'll deal with it then. Thanks for the help anyways.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 06:21 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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Seems like you have not done the RX end point correctly, I do not see any binding in your video but I see servo wich stop his travel before the other.

I just do my 600 again a few minutes ago with new servo, I put -14/+14 collective and -12/+12 cyclic, then I reduced the collective to -12/+12 in the pitch curve with max 90% and -10/+10 for the cyclic with dual rate at 75%, this way it give me some room to increase pitch & cyclic later without redoing the calibration.

Is your throttle-hold pitch curve set to 0-25-50-75-100?

Dual rate to 100%

Servo travel to 100%

Enter in the calibration mode and before doing anything, set your collective pitch first to -12/+12 with the swashmix ''pit'' then leave the ''pit'' like this and never play again with that value. Later if you want less collective, go to pitch curve instead of swashmix.

Now that your collective pitch is set, put AIL & ELEV to 100% and go through the calibration process, once it's done, you can reduce the cyclic around 12 in the swash menu then never go again in that menu, forget that menu for futur modification, but do it in pitch curve for collective & dual rate for cyclic.

If you still get interaction at the end, go again the calibration from the beginning, but this time with 115% servo travel.

If you still get interaction, I do not know what to said you........ I tested crazy travel on mine without interaction, so it should work for you.

7 -8 of cyclic is for flybared heli with the flybar leveled, but on a flybar heli when you'r flying it and you give some or full cyclic, the flybar tilt and give even more cyclic, in the range of 10 to 12, even more with different paddle.
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Old Feb 03, 2011, 01:29 AM
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United States, VA, Fairfax
Joined Feb 2011
380 Posts
Is this a good first CP?

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum but I have been following this thread for quite some time as I am very interested in purchasing this helicopter. I have been flying a CB180z for quite a while now and I am a competent pilot. I am looking to move into 6CH CP and I am curious as to whether the V450D01 would be good option. I am stuck between this helicopter and the V400d02 which is much lower quality than the V450D01 but it is also much cheaper. No matter what helicopter I buy I will be putting in simulator time with it as well, I just don't know whether I should go the cheap route and sacrifice the quality of parts or if I should invest more money into the V450D01 and get a higher quality helicopter. Any thoughts on the matter? Has anyone used the V450D01 as a first time CP? Thank you.

ukarmy04
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Old Feb 03, 2011, 02:48 AM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Seems like you have not done the RX end point correctly, I do not see any binding in your video but I see servo wich stop his travel before the other.

I just do my 600 again a few minutes ago with new servo, I put -14/+14 collective and -12/+12 cyclic, then I reduced the collective to -12/+12 in the pitch curve with max 90% and -10/+10 for the cyclic with dual rate at 75%, this way it give me some room to increase pitch & cyclic later without redoing the calibration.

Is your throttle-hold pitch curve set to 0-25-50-75-100?

Dual rate to 100%

Servo travel to 100%

Enter in the calibration mode and before doing anything, set your collective pitch first to -12/+12 with the swashmix ''pit'' then leave the ''pit'' like this and never play again with that value. Later if you want less collective, go to pitch curve instead of swashmix.

Now that your collective pitch is set, put AIL & ELEV to 100% and go through the calibration process, once it's done, you can reduce the cyclic around 12 in the swash menu then never go again in that menu, forget that menu for futur modification, but do it in pitch curve for collective & dual rate for cyclic.

If you still get interaction at the end, go again the calibration from the beginning, but this time with 115% servo travel.

If you still get interaction, I do not know what to said you........ I tested crazy travel on mine without interaction, so it should work for you.

7 -8 of cyclic is for flybared heli with the flybar leveled, but on a flybar heli when you'r flying it and you give some or full cyclic, the flybar tilt and give even more cyclic, in the range of 10 to 12, even more with different paddle.
Martin, I think you're onto something. Yes, with the RX set to setup mode (red LED blinking) I can set the pitch to 12 and the cyclic up to 10 without hitting servo endpoints. Swash travels up and down nicely even with full cyclic input. I get this with swashmix values around e:85,a:72,p:63. I can get a total pitch of 20-21 so there is no MECHANICAL limit to this.

However, after finishing and exiting setup mode on the RX here is what I get:
The pitch and cyclic measurements are still there SEPARATELY but not together. Seems the pitch value holds but the cyclic value is REDUCED BY THE RX?!?

Do you get the same thing Martin?

It may well just be the RX and I guess it's possible that in actual flight it WILL give you the max pitch you set but just not while the heli is sitting on a table. It would be nice to hear from a Walkera engineer on this matter. (yeah, right...)
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Old Feb 03, 2011, 06:15 AM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2008
82 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukarmy04 View Post
Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum but I have been following this thread for quite some time as I am very interested in purchasing this helicopter. I have been flying a CB180z for quite a while now and I am a competent pilot. I am looking to move into 6CH CP and I am curious as to whether the V450D01 would be good option. I am stuck between this helicopter and the V400d02 which is much lower quality than the V450D01 but it is also much cheaper. No matter what helicopter I buy I will be putting in simulator time with it as well, I just don't know whether I should go the cheap route and sacrifice the quality of parts or if I should invest more money into the V450D01 and get a higher quality helicopter. Any thoughts on the matter? Has anyone used the V450D01 as a first time CP? Thank you.

ukarmy04
Yes. The v450 is my first cp heli and I had no problem flying it. Even though the v400 is cheaper... You'll end up spending more in the long run because you're gonna want to buy the v450 a couple of weeks after you get the 400!
Don't be afraid of all the talk about pitch ratios and throttle curves on this thread... If you buy the 450 from wow like I did, it will come fully programmed and flight tested. so you will be able to fly it out of the box and then tweak the settings as you get more familiar with it.... One suggestion: get training gear. If you've only flown small fp helis...the v450 is so powerful, it's a little scary the first time you spin it up... But once you get it a few feet up in a hover, you'll find the 3axis gyro keeps it very stable.... If you can hover a fp, you can hover the v450 IMO.
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Old Feb 03, 2011, 06:44 AM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
I see I better keep my post strictly at a non-technical level.

So yeah, get the v450. It's the best heli Walkera made to date (with the 1#A close behind it). Crank the pots up on the RX and use a training gear.

But at least check all the parts and screws so nothing is loose. Flying out of the box... ... is like a Jack-in-a-Box. You never know what will pop out!...
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